Many anti-illegal immigration proponents argue the economic arguments as well as the national security arguments. I find the national security issues compelling, but the economic arguments very much in the same vein as protectionism, living wage arguments, and anti-competition arguments. National security does not mean we have to set immigration very low or at zero, but it would require a major shift in our current policies.

I am somewhat disturbed you have equated illegal to legal immigration. The first being a law breaker and the second following the law. So, I am to be considered anti-immigrant if I oppose illegal immigration by your logic. Hmmm.

If you would oppose letting in the same number of immigrants via a legal immigration/guest worker program yes. In that case I contend your opposition to illegal immigration is just a handy bit of misdirection and that your preferred stance is protectionism.

I know I know - the guy who hides in the engine compartment of a diesel electric locomotive for four days to get back to the $5 an hour stable mucking job in a Boston suburb he was deported from is exactly the kind of employee you want. Such dedication! Which is rationalizing on steroids. America is an ideal, not a cash register. America is a Dream, not a teat to suckle. America is a culture, not an all you can eat buffet. America is a shining hope, not a Salvation Army second hand store. America is a nation of Laws, NOT a nation of expediency. A nation built upon blood and sacrifice, dedicated to God's Will and Revealed Ways, NOT a merchant's wet dream of whatever puts the most money in the bank. America is Character writ large, not a nation created for hit and run opportunism.

If people want to sup of the richness that is the wine of Americanism, let them pay the price Legally Established. Or else, what laws are we to respect? Are we to choose which laws we'll respect? To wink and nod and slide 'guest workers' behind the umpire so no one will notice is to diminish my respect for law and order. Diminishing respect for Law is a certain path to doom, or else ya'll missed the Great Lesson that was both Israel and Rome. Look what one oral sex incident from a President did to diminish the respect of proper sexual conduct among our children. I can tell you first hand that having gotten away with hundreds of illegal aliens in their ranks, contractors, shippers, warehousers, all sorts of men I know have become more calloused about America. More calloused about whether or not this nation stands for something bigger than just the almighty dollar. Are more calloused about friends and family and certainly more calloused about the legitimacy of government. They're making great money but their spirits are being corrupted.

I ask you - which is easier to repair?

The glaring neon lesson of illegal aliens is that (a) anything that pays is more desirable than obeying the Law. (b) you can get away with most anything if you prosper the Right People. (c) we're not a nation of blind justice and equal stature before the Law and (d) Character means dick in America when money is on the table.

I truly despair, a deep angry knot in the guts that playing by the rules means absolutely nothing anymore to Pundits, Politicians, and apparently more than half of my fellow citizens. This is no longer the Nation I was raised to inherit, cherish and protect.

Money has truly surmounted Character as the god who will be worshipped. It's cloying decay is killing us, individually and nationally. Like Shaddrach, Meshach and Abednego, with this kind of shadow upon the land it will soon be the worship of gold, or the furnace for us as a nation.

Most people have already signaled their preference.

Show Me the Money wins in a landslide over Doing The Right Thing.

Not chasing the Money is just laughable to the people I know. Bend any rule, push aside any Law, trash whatever is in the way to line their pockets. Why not?? Everyone else is doing it and no one's being held to account.

And our nation will die because of it.

Shiloh Sharps

Hmmm...I don't know. I think all of them have sorts of laws and regulations controlling what comes in. These don't have to be fore economic reasons, but they can still have an economic effect.

Here's a softball question for you. Is there any country in the world that *doesn't* practice protectionism?

This is not precisely the case. The idea here is that most people are middle class, and that most immigrants (legal or illegal) are comparable in ability...

My wages have been frozen for the last five years while the benefits (health care, etc) have been reduced.

They are even starting to manage some of the projects off-shore.

I'm 57 so the thought of starting over in another field is troubling (to say the least).

I'm either between a rock and a hard place or the light I see at the end of the tunnel is really a rapidly approaching train...

David C has it. If legal immigration were of the same magnitude as illegal immigration we'd observe pretty much the same economic outcomes in terms of wages. Hence, the economic arguments apply to both legal and illegal immigration.

David C,

Good point. For one thing, the protectionist policies tend to almost never increase employment in the protect industries, but instead simply result in a price increase. This of course is bad for all those consumers who consume goods from the protected industries.

And BTW, one of the problems with mercantilism or any other form of protectionist theory is that even *if* the politicians/policy makers in other countries are complete dolts, the tariffs *still* hurt you.