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	<title>Comments on: Israel Begins &#8220;Limited&#8221; Incursions Into Lebanon</title>
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		<title>By: Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/israel_begins_limited_incursions_into_lebanon/comment-page-1/#comment-91197</link>
		<dc:creator>Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Jul 2006 03:20:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/07/israel_begins_limited_incursions_into_lebanon/#comment-91197</guid>
		<description>... but, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2006_07_23.php#009149&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;see TPM reader MK&lt;/a&gt;:&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;strong&gt;What I find inexplicable is the Israeli bombing of Beirut&lt;/strong&gt;. I can understand, from their point of view, wanting to create a buffer zone on their border; &lt;strong&gt;I cannot understand bombing and chasing out of Lebanon the only counter force to Hezbollah within Lebanon&lt;/strong&gt;. Thanks to Israeli bombardment everyone with a passport and money is leaving; &lt;strong&gt;those that remain are the Shiite base of Hezbollah&lt;/strong&gt;. 

I have heard ANC speakers say why they never did terrorists acts. They said they were out &lt;strong&gt;to divide the enemy not unite them&lt;/strong&gt;. Not so long ago the very people Israel is forcing out of Lebanon were in the streets demonstrating against the Syrian occupation. &lt;strong&gt;Now Israel is thanking them with bombs&lt;/strong&gt;.&lt;/blockquote&gt;And in all fairness, since I have been talking up Tom Ricks&#039;s article, Brad DeLong compares his earlier journalism &amp; wonders &lt;a href=&quot;http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2006/07/why_oh_why_cant_12.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;when the hell the scales fell off his eyes, &amp; why we haven&#039;t heard about that spot on the road to Damascus&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>... but, <a href="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2006_07_23.php#009149" rel="nofollow">see TPM reader MK</a>:<br />
<blockquote><strong>What I find inexplicable is the Israeli bombing of Beirut</strong>. I can understand, from their point of view, wanting to create a buffer zone on their border; <strong>I cannot understand bombing and chasing out of Lebanon the only counter force to Hezbollah within Lebanon</strong>. Thanks to Israeli bombardment everyone with a passport and money is leaving; <strong>those that remain are the Shiite base of Hezbollah</strong>. </p>
<p>I have heard ANC speakers say why they never did terrorists acts. They said they were out <strong>to divide the enemy not unite them</strong>. Not so long ago the very people Israel is forcing out of Lebanon were in the streets demonstrating against the Syrian occupation. <strong>Now Israel is thanking them with bombs</strong>.</p></blockquote>
<p>And in all fairness, since I have been talking up Tom Ricks's article, Brad DeLong compares his earlier journalism &amp; wonders <a href="http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2006/07/why_oh_why_cant_12.html" rel="nofollow">when the hell the scales fell off his eyes, &amp; why we haven't heard about that spot on the road to Damascus</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/israel_begins_limited_incursions_into_lebanon/comment-page-1/#comment-91196</link>
		<dc:creator>Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Jul 2006 03:10:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/07/israel_begins_limited_incursions_into_lebanon/#comment-91196</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;It is my opinion that Israel hopes to use those feelings to turn the blame on Hezbollah and by proxy Syria as well.&lt;/em&gt;

Sir, I hope &amp; pray that you&#039;re right ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>It is my opinion that Israel hopes to use those feelings to turn the blame on Hezbollah and by proxy Syria as well.</em></p>
<p>Sir, I hope &amp; pray that you're right ...</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/israel_begins_limited_incursions_into_lebanon/comment-page-1/#comment-91182</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Jul 2006 02:06:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/07/israel_begins_limited_incursions_into_lebanon/#comment-91182</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;My fear is that the populationâ��s judgment will be that anyone killing the Israelis who bombed their families, canâ��t be all bad. Lots of past evidence for that conclusionâ��s being drawn.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yes, and in most cases that would be the case.  However, after the Cedar Revolution, the people&#039;s view of Hezbollah has changed from them being &quot;one of them&quot; to being agents, or at least lap dogs, of Syria.  It is my opinion that Israel hopes to use those feelings to turn the blame on Hezbollah and by proxy Syria as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>My fear is that the populationâ��s judgment will be that anyone killing the Israelis who bombed their families, canâ��t be all bad. Lots of past evidence for that conclusionâ��s being drawn.</p></blockquote>
<p>Yes, and in most cases that would be the case.  However, after the Cedar Revolution, the people's view of Hezbollah has changed from them being "one of them" to being agents, or at least lap dogs, of Syria.  It is my opinion that Israel hopes to use those feelings to turn the blame on Hezbollah and by proxy Syria as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/israel_begins_limited_incursions_into_lebanon/comment-page-1/#comment-91159</link>
		<dc:creator>Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Jul 2006 20:17:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/07/israel_begins_limited_incursions_into_lebanon/#comment-91159</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Iâ??m sure the IDF is very familiar with Galua. Again, nobody should be thinking the Israeli military is stupid or incompetent.&lt;/em&gt;

Right, but I wouldn&#039;t rule it out of hand either.  Cf. &quot;the American military.&quot;  As the Tom Ricks article reminds us, a smart, competent military can be rendered stupid &amp; incompetent by its civilian leadership.

&lt;em&gt;By bringing the fight to Lebanon as a whole, Israel forces the population to make a judgment of Hezbollah, do they represent Lebanon enough to make it worth fighting their war, or not?&lt;/em&gt;

Maybe so.  My fear is that the population&#039;s judgment will be that anyone killing the Israelis who bombed their families, can&#039;t be all bad.  Lots of past evidence for that conclusion&#039;s being drawn.

&lt;em&gt;If Israel is careful they can inflict enough harm for people to blame Hezbollah, but not so much harm that they blame Israel more.&lt;/em&gt;

That&#039;s the catch, indeed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Iâ??m sure the IDF is very familiar with Galua. Again, nobody should be thinking the Israeli military is stupid or incompetent.</em></p>
<p>Right, but I wouldn't rule it out of hand either.  Cf. "the American military."  As the Tom Ricks article reminds us, a smart, competent military can be rendered stupid &amp; incompetent by its civilian leadership.</p>
<p><em>By bringing the fight to Lebanon as a whole, Israel forces the population to make a judgment of Hezbollah, do they represent Lebanon enough to make it worth fighting their war, or not?</em></p>
<p>Maybe so.  My fear is that the population's judgment will be that anyone killing the Israelis who bombed their families, can't be all bad.  Lots of past evidence for that conclusion's being drawn.</p>
<p><em>If Israel is careful they can inflict enough harm for people to blame Hezbollah, but not so much harm that they blame Israel more.</em></p>
<p>That's the catch, indeed.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/israel_begins_limited_incursions_into_lebanon/comment-page-1/#comment-91156</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Jul 2006 18:44:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/07/israel_begins_limited_incursions_into_lebanon/#comment-91156</guid>
		<description>Anderson,

I&#039;m sure the IDF is very familiar with Galua.  Again, nobody should be thinking the Israeli military is stupid or incompetent.

Here is the issue, Hezbollah is not an insurgency in Israeli occupied land.  It was once, yes, and it may become that again, true.  In fact, that is probably the preferable position for Hezbollah.  But, when all this started, Hezbollah was not an insurgency, nor were they operating in an area occupied by a foreign power.  They are a rouge militia operating without the oversight of consent of the government elected by the Lebanese people.  

Given that difference, Israel&#039;s actions make more sense.  You can&#039;t fight a foreign militia on foreign soil without involving that foreign nation.  Hezbollah wants to fight Israel remotely, Israel is denying them that.  By bringing the fight to Lebanon as a whole, Israel forces the population to make a judgment of Hezbollah, do they represent Lebanon enough to make it worth fighting their war, or not?  It will be interesting to see what Lebanon decides, already there is anger at Hezbollah for this.  If Israel is careful they can inflict enough harm for people to blame Hezbollah, but not so much harm that they blame Israel more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anderson,</p>
<p>I'm sure the IDF is very familiar with Galua.  Again, nobody should be thinking the Israeli military is stupid or incompetent.</p>
<p>Here is the issue, Hezbollah is not an insurgency in Israeli occupied land.  It was once, yes, and it may become that again, true.  In fact, that is probably the preferable position for Hezbollah.  But, when all this started, Hezbollah was not an insurgency, nor were they operating in an area occupied by a foreign power.  They are a rouge militia operating without the oversight of consent of the government elected by the Lebanese people.  </p>
<p>Given that difference, Israel's actions make more sense.  You can't fight a foreign militia on foreign soil without involving that foreign nation.  Hezbollah wants to fight Israel remotely, Israel is denying them that.  By bringing the fight to Lebanon as a whole, Israel forces the population to make a judgment of Hezbollah, do they represent Lebanon enough to make it worth fighting their war, or not?  It will be interesting to see what Lebanon decides, already there is anger at Hezbollah for this.  If Israel is careful they can inflict enough harm for people to blame Hezbollah, but not so much harm that they blame Israel more.</p>
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		<title>By: jainphx</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/israel_begins_limited_incursions_into_lebanon/comment-page-1/#comment-91113</link>
		<dc:creator>jainphx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Jul 2006 01:37:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/07/israel_begins_limited_incursions_into_lebanon/#comment-91113</guid>
		<description>48,67,73,79 until present,this sounds like more than a few soldiers kidnapped to me.Ken is probably not old enough to remember these trifles,and then some just don&#039;t care.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>48,67,73,79 until present,this sounds like more than a few soldiers kidnapped to me.Ken is probably not old enough to remember these trifles,and then some just don't care.</p>
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		<title>By: Herb</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/israel_begins_limited_incursions_into_lebanon/comment-page-1/#comment-91110</link>
		<dc:creator>Herb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Jul 2006 00:46:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/07/israel_begins_limited_incursions_into_lebanon/#comment-91110</guid>
		<description>Well, Ken is on another one of his frequent trips to somewhere,(He doesn&#039;t even know where) and lends his words of HATE towards Bush.
 So what else is new?

And Anderson is once again showing his ability to PLAGIARIZE thoughts and words from someone else,

Like I said, So what else is new ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, Ken is on another one of his frequent trips to somewhere,(He doesn't even know where) and lends his words of HATE towards Bush.<br />
 So what else is new?</p>
<p>And Anderson is once again showing his ability to PLAGIARIZE thoughts and words from someone else,</p>
<p>Like I said, So what else is new ?</p>
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		<title>By: Old War Dogs</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/israel_begins_limited_incursions_into_lebanon/comment-page-1/#comment-91094</link>
		<dc:creator>Old War Dogs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Jul 2006 21:29:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/07/israel_begins_limited_incursions_into_lebanon/#comment-91094</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Israel Begins “Limited” Incursions Into Lebanon...&lt;/strong&gt;

Israel Begins “Limited” Incursions Into LebanonBy Greg Tinti After “massing” on the Israel-Lebanon border yesterday, the IDF has commenced a campaign of “limited” ground operations with the purpose of destroying Hezbollah infrastructure in ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Israel Begins “Limited” Incursions Into Lebanon...</strong></p>
<p>Israel Begins “Limited” Incursions Into LebanonBy Greg Tinti After “massing” on the Israel-Lebanon border yesterday, the IDF has commenced a campaign of “limited” ground operations with the purpose of destroying Hezbollah infrastructure in ...</p>
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		<title>By: Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/israel_begins_limited_incursions_into_lebanon/comment-page-1/#comment-91092</link>
		<dc:creator>Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Jul 2006 20:36:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/07/israel_begins_limited_incursions_into_lebanon/#comment-91092</guid>
		<description>In today&#039;s WaPo, Tom Ricks discusses &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/22/AR2006072200444_pf.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;how we blew our counterinsurgency in Iraq from day one&lt;/a&gt;, with special reference to the counterinsurgency teachings of a French expert on guerrilla warfare in the 1950s and 60s, David Galua.

The relevance to the present debacle in Lebanon is striking, and those interested in intelligent assessments rather than tough-guy &quot;bomb them all&quot; bluster might wish to read the whole thing:&lt;blockquote&gt;Galula &lt;strong&gt;warned specifically against the kind of large-scale conventional operations&lt;/strong&gt; the United States repeatedly launched with brigades and battalions, even if they held out the allure of short-term gains in intelligence. He insisted that &lt;strong&gt;firepower must be viewed very differently than in regular war&lt;/strong&gt;.

&quot;A soldier fired upon in conventional war who does not fire back with every available weapon would be guilty of a dereliction of his duty,&quot; he wrote; &quot;the reverse would be the case in counterinsurgency warfare, where &lt;strong&gt;the rule is to apply the minimum of fire&lt;/strong&gt;.&quot; * * *

As civil affairs officers found to their dismay, Army leaders tended to see the Iraqi people as the playing field on which a contest was played against insurgents. In Galula&#039;s view, &lt;strong&gt;the people are the prize&lt;/strong&gt;.

&quot;&lt;strong&gt;The population . . . becomes the objective for the counterinsurgent &lt;/strong&gt;as it was for his enemy,&quot; he wrote.

From that observation flows &lt;strong&gt;an entirely different way of dealing with civilians&lt;/strong&gt; in the midst of a guerrilla war. &quot;Since antagonizing the population will not help, &lt;strong&gt;it is imperative that hardships for it and rash actions on the part of the forces be kept to a minimum&lt;/strong&gt;,&quot; Galula wrote.&lt;/blockquote&gt;Apparently nobody in the IDF has read this book, either, or paid attention to its validation by counterexample in our last 3 years in Iraq.  It&#039;s now a bestseller at our staff college at Leavenworth ... too late, I fear.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In today's WaPo, Tom Ricks discusses <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/22/AR2006072200444_pf.html" rel="nofollow">how we blew our counterinsurgency in Iraq from day one</a>, with special reference to the counterinsurgency teachings of a French expert on guerrilla warfare in the 1950s and 60s, David Galua.</p>
<p>The relevance to the present debacle in Lebanon is striking, and those interested in intelligent assessments rather than tough-guy "bomb them all" bluster might wish to read the whole thing:<br />
<blockquote>Galula <strong>warned specifically against the kind of large-scale conventional operations</strong> the United States repeatedly launched with brigades and battalions, even if they held out the allure of short-term gains in intelligence. He insisted that <strong>firepower must be viewed very differently than in regular war</strong>.</p>
<p>"A soldier fired upon in conventional war who does not fire back with every available weapon would be guilty of a dereliction of his duty," he wrote; "the reverse would be the case in counterinsurgency warfare, where <strong>the rule is to apply the minimum of fire</strong>." * * *</p>
<p>As civil affairs officers found to their dismay, Army leaders tended to see the Iraqi people as the playing field on which a contest was played against insurgents. In Galula's view, <strong>the people are the prize</strong>.</p>
<p>"<strong>The population . . . becomes the objective for the counterinsurgent </strong>as it was for his enemy," he wrote.</p>
<p>From that observation flows <strong>an entirely different way of dealing with civilians</strong> in the midst of a guerrilla war. "Since antagonizing the population will not help, <strong>it is imperative that hardships for it and rash actions on the part of the forces be kept to a minimum</strong>," Galula wrote.</p></blockquote>
<p>Apparently nobody in the IDF has read this book, either, or paid attention to its validation by counterexample in our last 3 years in Iraq.  It's now a bestseller at our staff college at Leavenworth ... too late, I fear.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/israel_begins_limited_incursions_into_lebanon/comment-page-1/#comment-91081</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Jul 2006 18:45:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/07/israel_begins_limited_incursions_into_lebanon/#comment-91081</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;after Hezbollah captures a couple of POWs&lt;/i&gt;

Wow.  I never thought kidnapping Israeli soldiers stationed in Israel consitutes capturing POWs.  Plus, Bush is criticized for calling out Syria and Iran for supporting this terrorist group.

I guess we know what side ken is taking in this fight...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>after Hezbollah captures a couple of POWs</i></p>
<p>Wow.  I never thought kidnapping Israeli soldiers stationed in Israel consitutes capturing POWs.  Plus, Bush is criticized for calling out Syria and Iran for supporting this terrorist group.</p>
<p>I guess we know what side ken is taking in this fight...</p>
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		<title>By: DaveD</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/israel_begins_limited_incursions_into_lebanon/comment-page-1/#comment-91079</link>
		<dc:creator>DaveD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Jul 2006 18:40:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Hezbollah picks a fight.  Israel gives it to them.  Ken becomes unhappy. Bush criticizes the benefactors of Hezboallah.  This confirms in Ken&#039;s mind that Bush is insane.  Weird!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hezbollah picks a fight.  Israel gives it to them.  Ken becomes unhappy. Bush criticizes the benefactors of Hezboallah.  This confirms in Ken's mind that Bush is insane.  Weird!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Tinti</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/israel_begins_limited_incursions_into_lebanon/comment-page-1/#comment-91075</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Tinti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Jul 2006 18:11:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/07/israel_begins_limited_incursions_into_lebanon/#comment-91075</guid>
		<description>Anderson,

Fixed it.  Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anderson,</p>
<p>Fixed it.  Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/israel_begins_limited_incursions_into_lebanon/comment-page-1/#comment-91074</link>
		<dc:creator>Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Jul 2006 18:07:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/07/israel_begins_limited_incursions_into_lebanon/#comment-91074</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s not Eugene Volokh&#039;s post, it&#039;s David Kopel&#039;s.  Might want to correct that.

Ken:  it&#039;s all happening just like in that &lt;i&gt;Left Behind&lt;/i&gt; book!  No wonder Bush is thrilled!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That's not Eugene Volokh's post, it's David Kopel's.  Might want to correct that.</p>
<p>Ken:  it's all happening just like in that <i>Left Behind</i> book!  No wonder Bush is thrilled!</p>
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		<title>By: ken</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/israel_begins_limited_incursions_into_lebanon/comment-page-1/#comment-91073</link>
		<dc:creator>ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Jul 2006 18:04:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/07/israel_begins_limited_incursions_into_lebanon/#comment-91073</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s see: Israel bombs Lebanon into rubble and threatens a full scale invasion after Hezbollah captures a couple of POWs and G. Bush lashes out at Syria and Iran? 

Further proof that Bush is insane.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let's see: Israel bombs Lebanon into rubble and threatens a full scale invasion after Hezbollah captures a couple of POWs and G. Bush lashes out at Syria and Iran? </p>
<p>Further proof that Bush is insane.</p>
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		<title>By: Tempus Fugit Blog [ Tempus Fugit &#124; TxFx.net ]</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/israel_begins_limited_incursions_into_lebanon/comment-page-1/#comment-130601</link>
		<dc:creator>Tempus Fugit Blog [ Tempus Fugit &#124; TxFx.net ]</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-pre%--&gt;Winston Tastes Good, Like A...  QandO» Iraq: The Wrong War?  Photomatt» Packt CMS Nomination  Say Anything» The UN: Historically On Hezbollah&#039;s Side  BuzzMachine» Who’s afraid of the big, bad GOOG  Outside the Beltway» Israel Begins “Limited” Incursions Into Lebanon  ScrappleFace» Apple Braces for Launch of Windows ME2Pod  INDC Journal» Friday Music  Cox Forkum» Helter Shelter  Lime Shurbet» Taking a Break  Binary Bonsai» Dead Men      &lt;!--%kramer-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-pre%-->Winston Tastes Good, Like A...  QandO» Iraq: The Wrong War?  Photomatt» Packt CMS Nomination  Say Anything» The UN: Historically On Hezbollah's Side  BuzzMachine» Who&rsquo;s afraid of the big, bad GOOG  Outside the Beltway» Israel Begins “Limited” Incursions Into Lebanon  ScrappleFace» Apple Braces for Launch of Windows ME2Pod  INDC Journal» Friday Music  Cox Forkum» Helter Shelter  Lime Shurbet» Taking a Break  Binary Bonsai» Dead Men      <!--%kramer-post%--></p>
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