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	<title>Comments on: Israeli Ground Forces Move Into Gaza</title>
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	<description>Online Journal of Politics and Foreign Affairs</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 04:56:28 -0600</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Palestinian Rap - Who&#8217;s the Terrorist (Erhabe)? &#124; Webatlantis</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/israeli_ground_forces_move_into_gaza/comment-page-1/#comment-546696</link>
		<dc:creator>Palestinian Rap - Who&#8217;s the Terrorist (Erhabe)? &#124; Webatlantis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 15:15:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29459#comment-546696</guid>
		<description>[...] Israeli Ground Forces Move Into Gaza [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Israeli Ground Forces Move Into Gaza [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Brett</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/israeli_ground_forces_move_into_gaza/comment-page-1/#comment-546385</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 01:44:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29459#comment-546385</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;They blame it on Israel.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I&#039;m very curious as to where you found that claim, Dave. None of the major papers are posting any declaration about Hamas specifically denying the current firing of rockets into southern Israel. 

In the past, during the so-called ceasefire, and as I pointed out, Hamas largely let the smaller groups, like Islamic Jihad, do the rocket firing. Do you rebut that?

&lt;blockquote&gt;or do I think that everybody who hates Israel in Gaza is Hamas. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

No, but you seem to be denying that they are most likely the ones responsible for the firing of the current rockets into areas like Beersheba, even though it has been widely reported that Hamas has been receiving longer-range rockets and support from Iran.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>They blame it on Israel.</p></blockquote>
<p>I'm very curious as to where you found that claim, Dave. None of the major papers are posting any declaration about Hamas specifically denying the current firing of rockets into southern Israel. </p>
<p>In the past, during the so-called ceasefire, and as I pointed out, Hamas largely let the smaller groups, like Islamic Jihad, do the rocket firing. Do you rebut that?</p>
<blockquote><p>or do I think that everybody who hates Israel in Gaza is Hamas. </p></blockquote>
<p>No, but you seem to be denying that they are most likely the ones responsible for the firing of the current rockets into areas like Beersheba, even though it has been widely reported that Hamas has been receiving longer-range rockets and support from Iran.</p>
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		<title>By: MichaelB</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/israeli_ground_forces_move_into_gaza/comment-page-1/#comment-546377</link>
		<dc:creator>MichaelB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 01:13:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29459#comment-546377</guid>
		<description>Alex, Sure after Defensive Shield rocket attacks became a much bigger thing.  This was in part because the infrastructure that supported suicide bombings was largely destroyed and other measures made them much more difficult.  Al Aksa Martyrs Brigade has been less active these last few years.

Comparing the lethality of the suicide bombings of 2002 with the rocket attacks of 2008 suggests that the long term result of Defensive Shield (along with a lot of other things) has been a dramatic reduction in the capability of Palestinian terrorist groups to kill Israeli civilians.  

In light of that, it seems odd to suggest that it&#039;s virtually certain that Israel cannot substantially improve its security through military means - whatever the wisdom of the current operation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alex, Sure after Defensive Shield rocket attacks became a much bigger thing.  This was in part because the infrastructure that supported suicide bombings was largely destroyed and other measures made them much more difficult.  Al Aksa Martyrs Brigade has been less active these last few years.</p>
<p>Comparing the lethality of the suicide bombings of 2002 with the rocket attacks of 2008 suggests that the long term result of Defensive Shield (along with a lot of other things) has been a dramatic reduction in the capability of Palestinian terrorist groups to kill Israeli civilians.  </p>
<p>In light of that, it seems odd to suggest that it's virtually certain that Israel cannot substantially improve its security through military means - whatever the wisdom of the current operation.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Schuler</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/israeli_ground_forces_move_into_gaza/comment-page-1/#comment-546364</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Schuler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 00:11:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29459#comment-546364</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s a particularly stupid thing to say, charles.

Hamas has specifically denied responsibility.  They blame it on Israel.  I&#039;d certainly be interested in your evidence that Hamas is responsible for the rocket attacks.  Brett&#039;s inference above is pretty weak evidence&#8212;there are plenty of other explanations other than that Hamas is directly responsible for the rockets, e.g. it&#039;s easier to smuggle munitions into Gaza than into the West Bank, Hamas is less willing or able to prevent attacks than Fatah is, and so on.

I don&#039;t think that all Palestinians in Gaza are firing missiles into Israel nor do I think that everybody who hates Israel in Gaza is Hamas.  Nor do I think that Israel&#039;s interests are synoymous with ours.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That's a particularly stupid thing to say, charles.</p>
<p>Hamas has specifically denied responsibility.  They blame it on Israel.  I'd certainly be interested in your evidence that Hamas is responsible for the rocket attacks.  Brett's inference above is pretty weak evidence&mdash;there are plenty of other explanations other than that Hamas is directly responsible for the rockets, e.g. it's easier to smuggle munitions into Gaza than into the West Bank, Hamas is less willing or able to prevent attacks than Fatah is, and so on.</p>
<p>I don't think that all Palestinians in Gaza are firing missiles into Israel nor do I think that everybody who hates Israel in Gaza is Hamas.  Nor do I think that Israel's interests are synoymous with ours.</p>
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		<title>By: charles johnson</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/israeli_ground_forces_move_into_gaza/comment-page-1/#comment-546312</link>
		<dc:creator>charles johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 22:46:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29459#comment-546312</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The lack of rockets flying in from the West Bank?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Brett, that&#039;s just Dave trying to define &#039;all Palestinians&#039; as the enemy. He&#039;s the local Hannity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The lack of rockets flying in from the West Bank?</p></blockquote>
<p>Brett, that's just Dave trying to define 'all Palestinians' as the enemy. He's the local Hannity.</p>
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		<title>By: mike</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/israeli_ground_forces_move_into_gaza/comment-page-1/#comment-546286</link>
		<dc:creator>mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 22:07:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29459#comment-546286</guid>
		<description>Does anyone really believe that if Israel was never attacked again that Israel would ever again bomb/defend itself against Hamas/Palestine? The people chose their gov&#039;t (Hamas) and this is the result.  Whenever I do something incorrectly, I try to learn from my mistake - why don&#039;t the palestinians ever learn - just leave Israel alone and you will be fine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does anyone really believe that if Israel was never attacked again that Israel would ever again bomb/defend itself against Hamas/Palestine? The people chose their gov't (Hamas) and this is the result.  Whenever I do something incorrectly, I try to learn from my mistake - why don't the palestinians ever learn - just leave Israel alone and you will be fine.</p>
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		<title>By: Chadzilla</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/israeli_ground_forces_move_into_gaza/comment-page-1/#comment-546278</link>
		<dc:creator>Chadzilla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 21:49:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29459#comment-546278</guid>
		<description>Israel&#039;s playing the hand they&#039;ve been dealt.  The real source of the problem is Iran.  Over the last five years, Iran has been actively pursuing a policy of isolating Israel - whether financing and supplying Hezbollah in the north, swallowing their Shiite pride and financing/supplying Hamas in the south, or encouraging the international monetary markets to un-peg oil from the dollar, they are actively trying to isolate Israel economically, politically, and militarily.

The source of this trouble is not Hamas or even Israel.  The source is the cash, advisers, and rockets that have been flowing in from Iran ever since their trial run two years ago in the Hezbollah War of July 2006.  This is one well that needs to dry up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Israel's playing the hand they've been dealt.  The real source of the problem is Iran.  Over the last five years, Iran has been actively pursuing a policy of isolating Israel - whether financing and supplying Hezbollah in the north, swallowing their Shiite pride and financing/supplying Hamas in the south, or encouraging the international monetary markets to un-peg oil from the dollar, they are actively trying to isolate Israel economically, politically, and militarily.</p>
<p>The source of this trouble is not Hamas or even Israel.  The source is the cash, advisers, and rockets that have been flowing in from Iran ever since their trial run two years ago in the Hezbollah War of July 2006.  This is one well that needs to dry up.</p>
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		<title>By: Brett</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/israeli_ground_forces_move_into_gaza/comment-page-1/#comment-546273</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 21:19:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29459#comment-546273</guid>
		<description>Although I think it was political and military idiocy that led to this situation on the part of Israel, they had a legitimate right to strike back at Hamas for firing rockets at their southern cities. I&#039;m hoping, but doubtful, that they&#039;ll actually purge Hamas from Gaza (since the Fatahists there have been either suppressed or driven out) - but I understand why Hamas has support.

Of course, this means that next time the Israelis let the Palestinians have a democratic election, they&#039;d better &lt;em&gt;mean it.&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Although I think it was political and military idiocy that led to this situation on the part of Israel, they had a legitimate right to strike back at Hamas for firing rockets at their southern cities. I'm hoping, but doubtful, that they'll actually purge Hamas from Gaza (since the Fatahists there have been either suppressed or driven out) - but I understand why Hamas has support.</p>
<p>Of course, this means that next time the Israelis let the Palestinians have a democratic election, they'd better <em>mean it.</em></p>
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		<title>By: caj</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/israeli_ground_forces_move_into_gaza/comment-page-1/#comment-546215</link>
		<dc:creator>caj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 20:07:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29459#comment-546215</guid>
		<description>Israel should not be in Gaza at all, they have no right to invade .....send in war planes, send in tanks and destroy anything and everything.  Just who do they think they are that they can come and go as they please, do what they like and the US just sits idly by and watches.
Bush condemning Hamas....well, what a surprise that was...when are we going to get a backbone and see Israel for what they are...bully boys who want to own the whole region and will stop at nothing to get it.
Yet another stain on the US for condoning this repulsive action by Israel and the world will not forget....and we wonder why nobody likes us!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Israel should not be in Gaza at all, they have no right to invade .....send in war planes, send in tanks and destroy anything and everything.  Just who do they think they are that they can come and go as they please, do what they like and the US just sits idly by and watches.<br />
Bush condemning Hamas....well, what a surprise that was...when are we going to get a backbone and see Israel for what they are...bully boys who want to own the whole region and will stop at nothing to get it.<br />
Yet another stain on the US for condoning this repulsive action by Israel and the world will not forget....and we wonder why nobody likes us!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Brett</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/israeli_ground_forces_move_into_gaza/comment-page-1/#comment-546190</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 18:45:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29459#comment-546190</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;That strikes me as a rather oddly benign view of Hamas—they had many more options open to them than launching rockets into Israel. For example, they could have forsworn violence and enforced that in the Palestinian territories.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Why should they? Declaring a truce didn&#039;t bring them anything material - Israel continued and even tightened the blockade whether or not Hamas was actually firing rockets (as I pointed out). They didn&#039;t reign in Islamic Jihad and their ilk, but I can see why they didn&#039;t bother, when Israel&#039;s goal was basically to remove Hamas from power whether or not Hamas was attacking them.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Also, why is it assumed that Hamas is firing rockets into Israel rather than that Palestinians are firing rockets into Israel?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The lack of rockets flying in from the West Bank?

Much of the rockets during the &quot;ceasefire&quot; came from subsidiary groups like Islamic Jihad, which Hamas probably could have reined in, eventually (it takes time to track down and stop all those attacks, particularly since the short-range rockets can be made domestically in Gaza). But why should they? Israel wasn&#039;t going to reward them for it - Israel wanted Hamas out of power, and Fatah back in. Perhaps if they had actually offered to lift the blockade in exchange for Hamas reining in their flunkies, it might have made the difference, but no, that would be negotiating with terrorists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>That strikes me as a rather oddly benign view of Hamas—they had many more options open to them than launching rockets into Israel. For example, they could have forsworn violence and enforced that in the Palestinian territories.</p></blockquote>
<p>Why should they? Declaring a truce didn't bring them anything material - Israel continued and even tightened the blockade whether or not Hamas was actually firing rockets (as I pointed out). They didn't reign in Islamic Jihad and their ilk, but I can see why they didn't bother, when Israel's goal was basically to remove Hamas from power whether or not Hamas was attacking them.</p>
<blockquote><p>Also, why is it assumed that Hamas is firing rockets into Israel rather than that Palestinians are firing rockets into Israel?</p></blockquote>
<p>The lack of rockets flying in from the West Bank?</p>
<p>Much of the rockets during the "ceasefire" came from subsidiary groups like Islamic Jihad, which Hamas probably could have reined in, eventually (it takes time to track down and stop all those attacks, particularly since the short-range rockets can be made domestically in Gaza). But why should they? Israel wasn't going to reward them for it - Israel wanted Hamas out of power, and Fatah back in. Perhaps if they had actually offered to lift the blockade in exchange for Hamas reining in their flunkies, it might have made the difference, but no, that would be negotiating with terrorists.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Knapp</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/israeli_ground_forces_move_into_gaza/comment-page-1/#comment-546143</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Knapp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 16:07:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29459#comment-546143</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I don&#039;t know about that - after Operation Defensive Shield, suicide bombings were dramatically reduced.&lt;/blockquote&gt;Also after Operation Defensive Shield, Hamas got their hands on a lot more capability for rocket attacks.  Do you really think it was the operation that led to a decrease in suicide attacks?  I suggest that it would be the increase in availability of other methods of attack.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I don't know about that - after Operation Defensive Shield, suicide bombings were dramatically reduced.</p></blockquote>
<p>Also after Operation Defensive Shield, Hamas got their hands on a lot more capability for rocket attacks.  Do you really think it was the operation that led to a decrease in suicide attacks?  I suggest that it would be the increase in availability of other methods of attack.</p>
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		<title>By: MichaelB</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/israeli_ground_forces_move_into_gaza/comment-page-1/#comment-546138</link>
		<dc:creator>MichaelB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 15:30:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29459#comment-546138</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know about that - after Operation Defensive Shield, suicide bombings were dramatically reduced.  Clearly it is possible to dramatically reduce incidents of Palestinian terrorism through military action, if properly conducted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don't know about that - after Operation Defensive Shield, suicide bombings were dramatically reduced.  Clearly it is possible to dramatically reduce incidents of Palestinian terrorism through military action, if properly conducted.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Schuler</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/israeli_ground_forces_move_into_gaza/comment-page-1/#comment-546137</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Schuler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 15:13:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29459#comment-546137</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
In response, Hamas does what it can
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
That strikes me as a rather oddly benign view of Hamas&#8212;they had many more options open to them than launching rockets into Israel.  For example, they could have forsworn violence and enforced that in the Palestinian territories.

Also, why is it assumed that Hamas is firing rockets into Israel rather than that Palestinians are firing rockets into Israel?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
In response, Hamas does what it can
</p></blockquote>
<p>That strikes me as a rather oddly benign view of Hamas&mdash;they had many more options open to them than launching rockets into Israel.  For example, they could have forsworn violence and enforced that in the Palestinian territories.</p>
<p>Also, why is it assumed that Hamas is firing rockets into Israel rather than that Palestinians are firing rockets into Israel?</p>
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		<title>By: Brett</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/israeli_ground_forces_move_into_gaza/comment-page-1/#comment-546128</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 09:27:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29459#comment-546128</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s almost kind of sickeningly amusing. Hamas seizes control of Gaza in 2006, to which Israel responds by instituting a partial (not complete, since they don&#039;t have control over the Gaza-Egypt border)blockade presumably designed to remove Hamas from power and cut off their ability to possibly launch rockets at southern Israeli towns like what Hezbollah was doing.

In response, Hamas does what it can ... it launches rockets. To which Israel tightens the blockade, to which Hamas launches more rockets. Finally, Israel decides this isn&#039;t working, and just does a smackdown on Gaza, leading to a great increase in Hamas-launched rockets, all for the purpose of . . .stopping rockets from landing on southern Israeli towns.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It's almost kind of sickeningly amusing. Hamas seizes control of Gaza in 2006, to which Israel responds by instituting a partial (not complete, since they don't have control over the Gaza-Egypt border)blockade presumably designed to remove Hamas from power and cut off their ability to possibly launch rockets at southern Israeli towns like what Hezbollah was doing.</p>
<p>In response, Hamas does what it can ... it launches rockets. To which Israel tightens the blockade, to which Hamas launches more rockets. Finally, Israel decides this isn't working, and just does a smackdown on Gaza, leading to a great increase in Hamas-launched rockets, all for the purpose of . . .stopping rockets from landing on southern Israeli towns.</p>
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