Of course FOX couldn't say "asshole" on the air.

That is what FOX calls Obama... And yet I don't hear FOX complaining of being barred from Obama's plane... I guess they are just a little better than that.

lol, when? I missed it?

I would point out that while I agree with this comment it isn't a problem unique to the GOP. GOP candidates and politicians have spent a lifetime being demonized and villified.

I think in general both sides of the aisle spend way too much time paying the virtuous while accusing the other side of all manner of evil.

This is a problem in both parties, and it is one I think is only going to get worse.

I'm been around too long to take "the Republicans are finished" or "the Democrats are finished" seriously, as one or the other has been offered every couple of years since I started voting 30 years ago.

Charles Austin is correct. Just a few years ago, I remember talk of a permanent Republican majority.

You and I have certainly have gotten off to a bad start.

It was mostly my fault. By nature I am belligerent, but right now I am exceedingly frustrated.

Look, the knee-jerk response to kick Klein off the plane is, as I said earlier, a symptom and a cause of the current mess the GOP finds itself in. The manichaean "with us or against us" is the root cause of the current Republican decline, and I will get back to that in a minute.

But if nothing else, let me explain why kicking Klein off the plane was a bad idea on a number of levels. Tactically, it was disastrous. In the short term you have a number of stories about a campaign so insecure they can not handle dissent, treating a member of the press with complete disdain. Right now at Swampland, Joe Klein is the one explaining why it was ok- making him look better and the campaign look smaller with his graciousness.

Strategically, it was worse- now you have a press that is overtly suspicious and untrusting- a long-term problem for any campaign. Additionally, it feeds the Obama campaign narrative regarding McCain's temperament, and it feeds all the stories regarding how this is a different John McCain from previous years.

Finally, politically, this is a disaster. A movement with ideas fueling them, on the right side of issues, can take tough pieces on them. Furthermore, every movement needs tough pieces so they reflect on what they are doing. Self-reflection, contrary to what Bush and Palin think, is a good thing.

All the way around, this was a bad idea. Just keep him on the damned plane and vigorously disagree with him. Same with Maureen Dowd.

But back to the main point- the political aspect. The Republican party is where they are because they have spent the last few years simply "being better than the alternative," which is the Democrats. And they internalized it- the Democrats are worse, the Democrats are worse- it is a mantra and matter of fact with every right-wing blog. There is no reflection on whether or not that is, in fact, true, and now, it seems, the majority of the public disagrees with the assessment. Part of how we got there was by shutting down all dissent- demonizing, villifying, and tightening the belt. The big tent is now a small tent of true believers, and who knows what they believe in? Their positions are malleable- whatever Bush and Rove and Cheney say are good, they support

Long story short- had the GOP spent more time reading folks who criticized them and crafted better policy, rather than enforcing, they would not be where they are.

I see kicking Joe Klein off the airplane as the perfect example as to how the current GOP got where it is right now.

No, because he was a wimpy candidate who let Team Bush smear him. I'm sure they'll treat him nicely if he allows Obama to walk all over him, too.

Steve P: The republican party is still viable? As what??? The boot heel of missouri? They stopped being conservative 8+ yrs ago!

Look guys, I am not invested in this argument except for the fact that I want somebody to argue with (challenge) me in a way I can respect and ACTUALLY learn from.

Take it from one on the outside looking in: The GOP is dead. I can see the forest from the trees. The writing was on the wall with Palin... When she got picked, my initial thought was, "Vote McCain/Palin... end the GOP as we know it.

Go ahead, vote. I will see you all in 4 yrs, and lament the state of affairs with you.

Steve

John Cole is parsing the quote down to blandness. Questioning a man's decency and integrity is a wee bit more than "negative coverage". Negative coverage is me telling you that you don't think straight. Impugning your integrty by calling you a Marxist asshole is another matter, don't you think?

OK. The part I don't get here is the part where McCain and Palin and all their ads and all their robocalls do nothing but question Obama's decency and integrity, but Joe Klein somehow crossed the line questioning McCain's decency and integrity and he was booted.

That sort of offhanded, veiled insult is most often used when the author cannot come up with something substantive and wants to use the tired stereotype of Fox watchers as less educated and more readily molded into rightwing ideologues. Like I said, it's a tired stereotype.

I'm sorry, there's some question that Fox News watchers aren't being brainwashed?

John Cole,

You and I have certainly have gotten off to a bad start. I like to keep things more cordial with my political opposition but you make it hard. It amuses me when I offer reasonable explanations and insights only to be told to go watch more Fox news (I don't by the way). That sort of offhanded, veiled insult is most often used when the author cannot come up with something substantive and wants to use the tired stereotype of Fox watchers as less educated and more readily molded into rightwing ideologues. Like I said, it's a tired stereotype.

It will be interesting to see if there really are "mass defections from the GOP". I doubt there are many except those who claim to be the intellectual arm of the party. So much for inclusiveness and a big tent. Once the rednecks got a say the highbrows couldn't wait to distance themselves from 'those people'.

I should note I have great respect for our host but disagree with him often but in a respectful manner. Us country bumpkins know how to be polite in someone else's house.

The McCain campaign has plenty of press so if in fact (so far people here are just speculating) Klein is not being given a seat it won't hurt him to lose that particular perspective in the papers. Now let's be friends.