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	<title>Comments on: Judge Rules Padilla Must be Charged or Released</title>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/judge_rules_padilla_must_be_charged_or_released/comment-page-1/#comment-37910</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Mar 2005 05:22:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=9434#comment-37910</guid>
		<description>Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus whenever it suited him to make arrests, not just in the state of Maryland. The Maryland legislature was locked up in Ft. McHenry (something one of Francis Scott Key&#039;s nephews who was a legislator found ironic) to prevent them from voting to secede.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus whenever it suited him to make arrests, not just in the state of Maryland. The Maryland legislature was locked up in Ft. McHenry (something one of Francis Scott Key's nephews who was a legislator found ironic) to prevent them from voting to secede.</p>
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		<title>By: Backcountry Conservative</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/judge_rules_padilla_must_be_charged_or_released/comment-page-1/#comment-37909</link>
		<dc:creator>Backcountry Conservative</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Mar 2005 05:19:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=9434#comment-37909</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Padilla must be charged or released&lt;/strong&gt;
WYFF A federal judge in Spartanburg has ordered that an American citizen held as an enemy combatant in a Navy brig in Charleston should be charged with a crime or released. U.S. District Judge Henry F. Floyd ruled Monday that...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Padilla must be charged or released</strong><br />
WYFF A federal judge in Spartanburg has ordered that an American citizen held as an enemy combatant in a Navy brig in Charleston should be charged with a crime or released. U.S. District Judge Henry F. Floyd ruled Monday that...</p>
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		<title>By: Stygius</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/judge_rules_padilla_must_be_charged_or_released/comment-page-1/#comment-37890</link>
		<dc:creator>Stygius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Mar 2005 01:17:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=9434#comment-37890</guid>
		<description>James,
I think I may have misunderstood your post. Sorry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James,<br />
I think I may have misunderstood your post. Sorry.</p>
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		<title>By: Stygius</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/judge_rules_padilla_must_be_charged_or_released/comment-page-1/#comment-37889</link>
		<dc:creator>Stygius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Mar 2005 01:17:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=9434#comment-37889</guid>
		<description>Carlos,

If you read the opinion, you&#039;ll see that Padilla was originally arrested on a court-ordered warrant, which was later vacated by that court after he was handed over to the military. The point is that civilian courts and agencies were perfectly capable of keeping Padilla out of circulation (since they&#039;re the ones who took him out of circulation), thus the military detention wasn&#039;t &quot;necessary&quot; under the president&#039;s authority. If no authority, then unconstitutional. 

If Congress wants to suspend habeas corpus for Americans who are members of al-Qaeda or affiliated groups as a preventive measure, by all means. But that is the Congress&#039; discretion, not the president&#039;s.


James,

As for &quot;no declaration of war.&quot; Congress passed the &quot;Authorization for the Use of Military Force&quot; in the wake of the September 11 attacks, which is the same thing. Thus, the idea that this is all solely about &quot;criminal&quot; matters is wrong. It is also a military matter, but in a manner bound by the Constitution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carlos,</p>
<p>If you read the opinion, you'll see that Padilla was originally arrested on a court-ordered warrant, which was later vacated by that court after he was handed over to the military. The point is that civilian courts and agencies were perfectly capable of keeping Padilla out of circulation (since they're the ones who took him out of circulation), thus the military detention wasn't "necessary" under the president's authority. If no authority, then unconstitutional. </p>
<p>If Congress wants to suspend habeas corpus for Americans who are members of al-Qaeda or affiliated groups as a preventive measure, by all means. But that is the Congress' discretion, not the president's.</p>
<p>James,</p>
<p>As for "no declaration of war." Congress passed the "Authorization for the Use of Military Force" in the wake of the September 11 attacks, which is the same thing. Thus, the idea that this is all solely about "criminal" matters is wrong. It is also a military matter, but in a manner bound by the Constitution.</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/judge_rules_padilla_must_be_charged_or_released/comment-page-1/#comment-37885</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Mar 2005 00:43:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=9434#comment-37885</guid>
		<description>Carlos:  While we&#039;re in a state of war, there has been no congressional declaration of war.  Second, it really doesn&#039;t matter how big the potential crime.  Presidents don&#039;t, for example, have the power to lock suspected mafia dons up indefinitely without trial.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carlos:  While we're in a state of war, there has been no congressional declaration of war.  Second, it really doesn't matter how big the potential crime.  Presidents don't, for example, have the power to lock suspected mafia dons up indefinitely without trial.</p>
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		<title>By: Carlos</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/judge_rules_padilla_must_be_charged_or_released/comment-page-1/#comment-37882</link>
		<dc:creator>Carlos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Mar 2005 00:06:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=9434#comment-37882</guid>
		<description>Pardon me, but I must have missed something somewhere along the line.

It has been established (except in a court of law) that Padilla was a member of some part of al Qaida.  It has been established that the enemy we fight in this war doesn&#039;t use traditional military uniforms, they just go about their business of killing whomever they please in as large numbers as they can, uniforms be damned.

Now, I realize Mr. Padilla wasn&#039;t wearing a uniform, and I know he didn&#039;t have his little dirty bomb on his person when arrested.  But I can&#039;t for the life of me figure out what the problem is keeping this sandbat out of circulation in the Western Hemisphere.  After people are dead (up to tens of thousands in his case) it will be too late to say he shouldn&#039;t be doing that.  By the way I&#039;m reading these things, in the nanosecond between the time he pulls the trigger on his dirty bomb and the time everything within miles is nuclear waste, the government is supposed to step in and arrest him and prevent it from happening?

What&#039;s wrong with this picture?  He wasn&#039;t planning a convenience store holdup at 3 am!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pardon me, but I must have missed something somewhere along the line.</p>
<p>It has been established (except in a court of law) that Padilla was a member of some part of al Qaida.  It has been established that the enemy we fight in this war doesn't use traditional military uniforms, they just go about their business of killing whomever they please in as large numbers as they can, uniforms be damned.</p>
<p>Now, I realize Mr. Padilla wasn't wearing a uniform, and I know he didn't have his little dirty bomb on his person when arrested.  But I can't for the life of me figure out what the problem is keeping this sandbat out of circulation in the Western Hemisphere.  After people are dead (up to tens of thousands in his case) it will be too late to say he shouldn't be doing that.  By the way I'm reading these things, in the nanosecond between the time he pulls the trigger on his dirty bomb and the time everything within miles is nuclear waste, the government is supposed to step in and arrest him and prevent it from happening?</p>
<p>What's wrong with this picture?  He wasn't planning a convenience store holdup at 3 am!</p>
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		<title>By: Stygius</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/judge_rules_padilla_must_be_charged_or_released/comment-page-1/#comment-37877</link>
		<dc:creator>Stygius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Mar 2005 22:37:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=9434#comment-37877</guid>
		<description>Charlie,

Lincoln suspended habeas corpus in certain areas  in Maryland (namely, marching routes into Washington, DC). He was uncomfortable with this (limited) act, however, and asked Congress to pass legislation giving him express authority to do so. 

And then--like you say--went on to win the Civil War.

And you are right, the Constitution is not a suicide pact, which is why it doesn&#039;t give the president the authority to either ignore law or make it up. 

Also, it is not a suicide pact in the sense that it expressly gives Congress the authority to define violations of the &quot;laws of war&quot; and suspend habeas corpus in times of war and insurrection. And Congress has had more than sufficient time to pass such legislation since 2001. Thus, appeals to &quot;inherent&quot; presidential authority and &quot;imminent threats&quot; contravene the Constitution.

That both the president and the Congress have been negligent in dealing with this problem cannot be blamed on the Constitution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Charlie,</p>
<p>Lincoln suspended habeas corpus in certain areas  in Maryland (namely, marching routes into Washington, DC). He was uncomfortable with this (limited) act, however, and asked Congress to pass legislation giving him express authority to do so. </p>
<p>And then--like you say--went on to win the Civil War.</p>
<p>And you are right, the Constitution is not a suicide pact, which is why it doesn't give the president the authority to either ignore law or make it up. </p>
<p>Also, it is not a suicide pact in the sense that it expressly gives Congress the authority to define violations of the "laws of war" and suspend habeas corpus in times of war and insurrection. And Congress has had more than sufficient time to pass such legislation since 2001. Thus, appeals to "inherent" presidential authority and "imminent threats" contravene the Constitution.</p>
<p>That both the president and the Congress have been negligent in dealing with this problem cannot be blamed on the Constitution.</p>
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		<title>By: charlie32</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/judge_rules_padilla_must_be_charged_or_released/comment-page-1/#comment-37869</link>
		<dc:creator>charlie32</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Mar 2005 21:30:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=9434#comment-37869</guid>
		<description>Wasn&#039;t it Lincoln who suspended habeas corpus, causing Justice Taney to retire?
And Abe went on to win the Civil War.
I think the general sense was that the Constitution is not a suicide pact.
That said, a secure, classified trial is not unheard of, just hard to do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wasn't it Lincoln who suspended habeas corpus, causing Justice Taney to retire?<br />
And Abe went on to win the Civil War.<br />
I think the general sense was that the Constitution is not a suicide pact.<br />
That said, a secure, classified trial is not unheard of, just hard to do.</p>
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		<title>By: Stygius</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/judge_rules_padilla_must_be_charged_or_released/comment-page-1/#comment-37863</link>
		<dc:creator>Stygius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Mar 2005 20:55:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=9434#comment-37863</guid>
		<description>Malkin&#039;s citation of Ex Parte Quirin misses the point. The Quirin case dealt with express delegation of congressional authority; not a resolution authorizing offensive operations. Americans can be tried in military courts, but it is Congress that determines their jurisdiction, not the president. 

If Bush wanted indefinite detention authority, he would be better off getting Congress to pass a bill giving him authority to do so in specific cases. Congress would have to rest on its authority to suspend habeas corpuse (Article I.9) and its Article I.8 authority to determine the laws of war.

The White House has relied on inherent authority arguments (from the Bybee Memo, for instance). This is not only constitutionally inexcusable, their unwillingness to get authority from Congress has been a massive tactical failure in the War on Terrorism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Malkin's citation of Ex Parte Quirin misses the point. The Quirin case dealt with express delegation of congressional authority; not a resolution authorizing offensive operations. Americans can be tried in military courts, but it is Congress that determines their jurisdiction, not the president. </p>
<p>If Bush wanted indefinite detention authority, he would be better off getting Congress to pass a bill giving him authority to do so in specific cases. Congress would have to rest on its authority to suspend habeas corpuse (Article I.9) and its Article I.8 authority to determine the laws of war.</p>
<p>The White House has relied on inherent authority arguments (from the Bybee Memo, for instance). This is not only constitutionally inexcusable, their unwillingness to get authority from Congress has been a massive tactical failure in the War on Terrorism.</p>
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		<title>By: Kappiy</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/judge_rules_padilla_must_be_charged_or_released/comment-page-1/#comment-37860</link>
		<dc:creator>Kappiy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Mar 2005 19:52:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=9434#comment-37860</guid>
		<description>Well, I am sure that this will not be a setback for the government.  They certainly WOULD NEVER arrest someone and hold them captive without evidence they believed would hold up in a court of law.

After Padilla&#039;s [aka Al Muhajir] arrest, Ashcroft said: &quot;Let me be clear: We know from multiple independent and corroborating sources that Abdullah Al Muhajir was closely associated with al Qaeda and that as an al Qaeda operative he was involved in planning future terrorist attacks on innocent American civilians in the United States.&quot;

If this is really the case, then he will certainly be punished for breaking the law.  The question is why the government hasn&#039;t gotten around to putting this guy on trial.

Of course, in the case of Hamdi, who Ashcroft and Rummy consistently framed as a threat, he was let off scot-free.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I am sure that this will not be a setback for the government.  They certainly WOULD NEVER arrest someone and hold them captive without evidence they believed would hold up in a court of law.</p>
<p>After Padilla's [aka Al Muhajir] arrest, Ashcroft said: "Let me be clear: We know from multiple independent and corroborating sources that Abdullah Al Muhajir was closely associated with al Qaeda and that as an al Qaeda operative he was involved in planning future terrorist attacks on innocent American civilians in the United States."</p>
<p>If this is really the case, then he will certainly be punished for breaking the law.  The question is why the government hasn't gotten around to putting this guy on trial.</p>
<p>Of course, in the case of Hamdi, who Ashcroft and Rummy consistently framed as a threat, he was let off scot-free.</p>
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		<title>By: Ugh</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/judge_rules_padilla_must_be_charged_or_released/comment-page-1/#comment-37859</link>
		<dc:creator>Ugh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Mar 2005 19:52:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=9434#comment-37859</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think al Qaeda would waste its time going after people who testify against their operatives.  They clearly think they have bigger fish to fry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don't think al Qaeda would waste its time going after people who testify against their operatives.  They clearly think they have bigger fish to fry.</p>
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		<title>By: The Jawa Report</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/judge_rules_padilla_must_be_charged_or_released/comment-page-1/#comment-37854</link>
		<dc:creator>The Jawa Report</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Mar 2005 19:16:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=9434#comment-37854</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Judge Orders Shoe Bomber Released or Tried in Civilian Court&lt;/strong&gt;
Ex Parte Milligan does not apply in the case of shoe-bomber Jose Padilla--therefore a military court may be used to try him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Judge Orders Shoe Bomber Released or Tried in Civilian Court</strong><br />
Ex Parte Milligan does not apply in the case of shoe-bomber Jose Padilla--therefore a military court may be used to try him.</p>
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		<title>By: Michelle Malkin</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/judge_rules_padilla_must_be_charged_or_released/comment-page-1/#comment-37853</link>
		<dc:creator>Michelle Malkin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Mar 2005 19:13:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=9434#comment-37853</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;WHAT TO DO WITH JOSE PADILLA&lt;/strong&gt;
A federal judge has ordered the government to either charge or release Jose Padilla, the suspected al Qaeda operative who was apprehended at Chicago O&#039;Hare airport two and a half years ago. The Bush administration, which will appeal the decision,...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>WHAT TO DO WITH JOSE PADILLA</strong><br />
A federal judge has ordered the government to either charge or release Jose Padilla, the suspected al Qaeda operative who was apprehended at Chicago O'Hare airport two and a half years ago. The Bush administration, which will appeal the decision,...</p>
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		<title>By: PoliBlog:  Politics is the Master Science</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/judge_rules_padilla_must_be_charged_or_released/comment-page-1/#comment-37850</link>
		<dc:creator>PoliBlog:  Politics is the Master Science</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Mar 2005 18:46:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=9434#comment-37850</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;More on Padilla&lt;/strong&gt;
James Joyner has a lengthy, and interesting post on Padilla that squares with my position.

And Michelle Malkin has a lengthy and interesting post that doesn&#039;t.

Part of the problem with Michelle&#039;s argument regarding the Joint Resolution of Congr...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>More on Padilla</strong><br />
James Joyner has a lengthy, and interesting post on Padilla that squares with my position.</p>
<p>And Michelle Malkin has a lengthy and interesting post that doesn't.</p>
<p>Part of the problem with Michelle's argument regarding the Joint Resolution of Congr...</p>
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		<title>By: SoloD</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/judge_rules_padilla_must_be_charged_or_released/comment-page-1/#comment-37847</link>
		<dc:creator>SoloD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Mar 2005 18:28:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=9434#comment-37847</guid>
		<description>If you change the Presidents name from George Bush (H.W. or W.) to Clinton (Bill or Hillary) there is no way that most conservatives would support the right of a President to unilaterally hold a US citizen at his (or her) whim.  (I imagine that Ms. Malkin probably wasnât as supportive of the power of the executive six years ago.)

Judge Floyd ruled the only way that any reasoned thinker should.  It is always difficult to balance dealing with a potential threat to the public against an intangible, such as the public&#039;s civil rights, but once the scale starts tipping toward the threat, it is difficult, if not impossible to get back the civil rights.  Tough decision, but not a tough choice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you change the Presidents name from George Bush (H.W. or W.) to Clinton (Bill or Hillary) there is no way that most conservatives would support the right of a President to unilaterally hold a US citizen at his (or her) whim.  (I imagine that Ms. Malkin probably wasnât as supportive of the power of the executive six years ago.)</p>
<p>Judge Floyd ruled the only way that any reasoned thinker should.  It is always difficult to balance dealing with a potential threat to the public against an intangible, such as the public's civil rights, but once the scale starts tipping toward the threat, it is difficult, if not impossible to get back the civil rights.  Tough decision, but not a tough choice.</p>
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