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	<title>Comments on: Jury Nullification, Voir Dire, and Honorable Lying</title>
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	<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/jury_nullification_voir_dire_and_honorable_lying/</link>
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		<title>By: New World Man - always hopeful, yet discontent</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/jury_nullification_voir_dire_and_honorable_lying/comment-page-1/#comment-86887</link>
		<dc:creator>New World Man - always hopeful, yet discontent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jun 2006 04:30:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Blawg Review #62...&lt;/strong&gt;

 Welcome to New World Man, a Library of Congress Web Resource on the Alito nomination, and home of Harriet Miers&#039; con law crash course. The author is a reformed lawyer who enjoys reading blawgs and writing about legal issues and in particular the Cons...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Blawg Review #62...</strong></p>
<p> Welcome to New World Man, a Library of Congress Web Resource on the Alito nomination, and home of Harriet Miers' con law crash course. The author is a reformed lawyer who enjoys reading blawgs and writing about legal issues and in particular the Cons...</p>
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		<title>By: New World Man - wonders in the world</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/jury_nullification_voir_dire_and_honorable_lying/comment-page-1/#comment-86019</link>
		<dc:creator>New World Man - wonders in the world</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jun 2006 16:47:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Buying a juror&#039;s vote to acquit: A primer...&lt;/strong&gt;

Julian Sanchez had a problem: A committed opponent of the drug war is called for jury duty, and is asked if he has feelings about the drug laws &quot;that might prevent you from objectively applying the law to the facts of the case?&quot; I say my moral views ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Buying a juror's vote to acquit: A primer...</strong></p>
<p>Julian Sanchez had a problem: A committed opponent of the drug war is called for jury duty, and is asked if he has feelings about the drug laws "that might prevent you from objectively applying the law to the facts of the case?" I say my moral views ...</p>
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		<title>By: Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/jury_nullification_voir_dire_and_honorable_lying/comment-page-1/#comment-85769</link>
		<dc:creator>Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jun 2006 18:31:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;em&gt;I could be wrong Anderson, but I suspect your sarcasm detector may need new batteries. ;-) &lt;/em&gt;

Possibly so, in which case, all apologies to Whatever.

But please recall, I live in Mississippi, and I hear arguments just like that advanced in all seriousness.  I heard the &quot;first-time offender&quot; bit a few weeks ago, from a member of the state parole board.  So maybe it&#039;s the calibration, not the batteries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>I could be wrong Anderson, but I suspect your sarcasm detector may need new batteries. ;-) </em></p>
<p>Possibly so, in which case, all apologies to Whatever.</p>
<p>But please recall, I live in Mississippi, and I hear arguments just like that advanced in all seriousness.  I heard the "first-time offender" bit a few weeks ago, from a member of the state parole board.  So maybe it's the calibration, not the batteries.</p>
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		<title>By: yetanotherjohn</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/jury_nullification_voir_dire_and_honorable_lying/comment-page-1/#comment-85759</link>
		<dc:creator>yetanotherjohn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jun 2006 17:49:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/06/jury_nullification_voir_dire_and_honorable_lying/#comment-85759</guid>
		<description>I was on a jury for a woman who was claiming total incapacitation and a request for lifelong workman&#039;s compensation and medical coverage. She apparently caught the flu three days after starting work, thought she caught it from her employers equipment, and thus felt entitled to a free ride. 

We had on that jury a person who would gladly self describe themselves as a liberal. After the jury deliberation, he remarked that he really thought insurance companies were evil and had planned on making sure the insurance company was placed on the hook for a large sum, even if it meant he had to deadlock the jury. Now this was despite the fact that he had been questioned, along with all of us, if he had any predispositions towards either the defendant or the plaintiff. In short, he did, he lied (though to the best of my knowledge no kids died) and when he heard the girls story he couldn&#039;t follow through. Maybe it was her changing story while on the witness stand, maybe it was her having gone to the ER over 100 times in the year prior to her catching the flu, maybe it was her inability to recognize the word &#039;hypochondria&#039; that was on the doctors evaluation of her flu symptoms. In any case, he joined the rest of the jury in finding that the insurance company had no liabilities what so ever. He did not join the call by some of his fellow jurors who asked the judge if the plaintiff would be charged with perjury as they jury clearly felt perjury had been committed.

To say that I like some outcome in general and thus it is permissible for me to act against the law to potentially achieve a verdict in support of a position is wrong. If it became common, then an important part of justice would be lost. If you can not keep an open mind, listen to the facts of the case and then vote, you do not belong on a jury.

We have a name for courts that are conducted where the sentence is known before the hearing of the facts.They are called Kangaroo courts. And they are not considered a good thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was on a jury for a woman who was claiming total incapacitation and a request for lifelong workman's compensation and medical coverage. She apparently caught the flu three days after starting work, thought she caught it from her employers equipment, and thus felt entitled to a free ride. </p>
<p>We had on that jury a person who would gladly self describe themselves as a liberal. After the jury deliberation, he remarked that he really thought insurance companies were evil and had planned on making sure the insurance company was placed on the hook for a large sum, even if it meant he had to deadlock the jury. Now this was despite the fact that he had been questioned, along with all of us, if he had any predispositions towards either the defendant or the plaintiff. In short, he did, he lied (though to the best of my knowledge no kids died) and when he heard the girls story he couldn't follow through. Maybe it was her changing story while on the witness stand, maybe it was her having gone to the ER over 100 times in the year prior to her catching the flu, maybe it was her inability to recognize the word 'hypochondria' that was on the doctors evaluation of her flu symptoms. In any case, he joined the rest of the jury in finding that the insurance company had no liabilities what so ever. He did not join the call by some of his fellow jurors who asked the judge if the plaintiff would be charged with perjury as they jury clearly felt perjury had been committed.</p>
<p>To say that I like some outcome in general and thus it is permissible for me to act against the law to potentially achieve a verdict in support of a position is wrong. If it became common, then an important part of justice would be lost. If you can not keep an open mind, listen to the facts of the case and then vote, you do not belong on a jury.</p>
<p>We have a name for courts that are conducted where the sentence is known before the hearing of the facts.They are called Kangaroo courts. And they are not considered a good thing.</p>
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		<title>By: htom</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/jury_nullification_voir_dire_and_honorable_lying/comment-page-1/#comment-85756</link>
		<dc:creator>htom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jun 2006 17:10:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/06/jury_nullification_voir_dire_and_honorable_lying/#comment-85756</guid>
		<description>I think that you can &quot;honestly lie&quot; if you are not determined to vote to acquit. If you indend to vote not guilty regardless of the charges, evidence, and circumstances, I think you shouldn&#039;t be on the jury, just as those who intend to vote guilty.

I was taught (perhaps incorrectly) that as a citizen I had to believe beyond a reasonable doubt that
1) The accused did the deed AND
2) The deed was a crime at the time of the act AND
3) The doing of the deed was a criminal act.

Usually jury nullification is considered to be related to the third item above, although in the case of &quot;law objectors&quot;, I can see how it could be  the second.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that you can "honestly lie" if you are not determined to vote to acquit. If you indend to vote not guilty regardless of the charges, evidence, and circumstances, I think you shouldn't be on the jury, just as those who intend to vote guilty.</p>
<p>I was taught (perhaps incorrectly) that as a citizen I had to believe beyond a reasonable doubt that<br />
1) The accused did the deed AND<br />
2) The deed was a crime at the time of the act AND<br />
3) The doing of the deed was a criminal act.</p>
<p>Usually jury nullification is considered to be related to the third item above, although in the case of "law objectors", I can see how it could be  the second.</p>
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		<title>By: Julian Sanchez</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/jury_nullification_voir_dire_and_honorable_lying/comment-page-1/#comment-85754</link>
		<dc:creator>Julian Sanchez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jun 2006 17:05:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Well, something like that thought played into my decision.  But nobody actually thinks that&#039;s an absolute rule, right?  At some margin of grotesque injustice (come up with your own examples--pogroms, the death penalty for sodomy, whatever), you just ignore the law and do what you know to be right.  But now we&#039;re just haggling price: What&#039;s the threshold?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, something like that thought played into my decision.  But nobody actually thinks that's an absolute rule, right?  At some margin of grotesque injustice (come up with your own examples--pogroms, the death penalty for sodomy, whatever), you just ignore the law and do what you know to be right.  But now we're just haggling price: What's the threshold?</p>
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		<title>By: McGehee</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/jury_nullification_voir_dire_and_honorable_lying/comment-page-1/#comment-85747</link>
		<dc:creator>McGehee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jun 2006 16:13:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Stalin relied heavily on people like you, Whatever.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I could be wrong Anderson, but I suspect your sarcasm detector may need new batteries.  ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Stalin relied heavily on people like you, Whatever.</p></blockquote>
<p>I could be wrong Anderson, but I suspect your sarcasm detector may need new batteries.  ;-)</p>
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		<title>By: McGehee</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/jury_nullification_voir_dire_and_honorable_lying/comment-page-1/#comment-85746</link>
		<dc:creator>McGehee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jun 2006 16:12:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>This is dangerously situational, though. How does one square the ethics of lying to get onto a jury for the purpose of nullifying drug laws, versus &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.yippee-ki-yay.us/index.php/yky/comments/5571/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;being allowed to lie to get off a jury rather than admit you&#039;re a racist?&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is dangerously situational, though. How does one square the ethics of lying to get onto a jury for the purpose of nullifying drug laws, versus <a href="http://www.yippee-ki-yay.us/index.php/yky/comments/5571/" rel="nofollow">being allowed to lie to get off a jury rather than admit you're a racist?</a></p>
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		<title>By: Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/jury_nullification_voir_dire_and_honorable_lying/comment-page-1/#comment-85743</link>
		<dc:creator>Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jun 2006 16:01:25 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;em&gt;I automatically think that all drug users should get jail time. A lot of it. And if someone is on trial, theyâ??re probably guilty of SOMETHING.&lt;/em&gt; 

Stalin relied heavily on people like you, Whatever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>I automatically think that all drug users should get jail time. A lot of it. And if someone is on trial, theyâ??re probably guilty of SOMETHING.</em> </p>
<p>Stalin relied heavily on people like you, Whatever.</p>
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		<title>By: whatever</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/jury_nullification_voir_dire_and_honorable_lying/comment-page-1/#comment-85733</link>
		<dc:creator>whatever</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jun 2006 14:54:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I automatically think that all drug users should get jail time.  A lot of it.  And if someone is on trial, they&#039;re probably guilty of SOMETHING.  Hell, first time offenders always get off with a slap on the wrist, so by the time I see them on trial, they probably have a rap sheet a mile long anyway. 

So since so many people are willing to lie under oath during jury selection, I guess I will too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I automatically think that all drug users should get jail time.  A lot of it.  And if someone is on trial, they're probably guilty of SOMETHING.  Hell, first time offenders always get off with a slap on the wrist, so by the time I see them on trial, they probably have a rap sheet a mile long anyway. </p>
<p>So since so many people are willing to lie under oath during jury selection, I guess I will too.</p>
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		<title>By: htom</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/jury_nullification_voir_dire_and_honorable_lying/comment-page-1/#comment-85723</link>
		<dc:creator>htom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jun 2006 14:28:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>In my opinion, since the question should not be asked on voir dire, it&#039;s permissable to ignore it, and answer the rest of the question. That the dishonorable prosecutor might thus mislead himself is somehow fitting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my opinion, since the question should not be asked on voir dire, it's permissable to ignore it, and answer the rest of the question. That the dishonorable prosecutor might thus mislead himself is somehow fitting.</p>
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		<title>By:  » OTB News</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/jury_nullification_voir_dire_and_honorable_lying/comment-page-1/#comment-124219</link>
		<dc:creator> » OTB News</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-pre%--&gt; OTBJury Nullification, Voir Dire, and Honorable Lying NRO Outs Kos’ Armando This Is No Way To Run A Market Another Terrorist Dies The Akaka Bill Fails In The Senate Black Caucus Opposes Jefferson Treatment Radical Left Calling Zarqawi Death Political Stunt&lt;!--%kramer-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-pre%--> OTBJury Nullification, Voir Dire, and Honorable Lying NRO Outs Kos&rsquo; Armando This Is No Way To Run A Market Another Terrorist Dies The Akaka Bill Fails In The Senate Black Caucus Opposes Jefferson Treatment Radical Left Calling Zarqawi Death Political Stunt<!--%kramer-post%--></p>
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