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	<title>Comments on: Legal Ethics Gone Awry</title>
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		<title>By: joe</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/legal_ethics_gone_awry/comment-page-1/#comment-358240</link>
		<dc:creator>joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 17:44:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>This is a complex issue as attorneys must have solid and completely candid relationships with their clients, but they also have a duty to &quot;justice.&quot;  The judge was being too harsh, holding too firm to principles while a man was rotting in jail.  The state bar should have been alerted so that they could discuss the matter, but the judge should have celebrated the other man&#039;s freedom and not focused so publicly on the attorney&#039;s actions.  Gray area like this shouldn&#039;t be penalized until it is debated and sorted out.  The attorney knew the consequences and didn&#039;t put his client at risk since his client was deceased.  Tough call, and the attorney made a tough decision.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a complex issue as attorneys must have solid and completely candid relationships with their clients, but they also have a duty to "justice."  The judge was being too harsh, holding too firm to principles while a man was rotting in jail.  The state bar should have been alerted so that they could discuss the matter, but the judge should have celebrated the other man's freedom and not focused so publicly on the attorney's actions.  Gray area like this shouldn't be penalized until it is debated and sorted out.  The attorney knew the consequences and didn't put his client at risk since his client was deceased.  Tough call, and the attorney made a tough decision.</p>
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		<title>By: KJ</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/legal_ethics_gone_awry/comment-page-1/#comment-357155</link>
		<dc:creator>KJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 18:21:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Billy, of course you are right.  It protected a dead client so well that it sent an innocent man to jail.
After working with hundreds of lawyers for the past 30 years perhaps I have become cynical but I have come to believe beyond any shadow of a doubt, nothing happens in the legal system that is not for the benefit of the lawyers, they are just very good at making it look like it is to protect the client.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Billy, of course you are right.  It protected a dead client so well that it sent an innocent man to jail.<br />
After working with hundreds of lawyers for the past 30 years perhaps I have become cynical but I have come to believe beyond any shadow of a doubt, nothing happens in the legal system that is not for the benefit of the lawyers, they are just very good at making it look like it is to protect the client.</p>
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		<title>By: Billy</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/legal_ethics_gone_awry/comment-page-1/#comment-356776</link>
		<dc:creator>Billy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 03:36:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/05/legal_ethics_gone_awry/#comment-356776</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;What happen to the idea that it is better to let 10 guilty men go free than keep one innocent in jail? Oh that&#039;s right we are talking about protecting the lawyers and they get to make the rules. So much for justice.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Attorney client privilege does nothing to protect the lawyers - it protects the client.

It seems to me that there&#039;s an exception to most every privilege when imminent harm is involved.  I cannot imagine that the privilege is so inviolable that it would serve to protect a dead man and allow an innocent man to be harmed by the injustice of wrongful imprisonment.  But I&#039;m not a judge in the deep south, either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>What happen to the idea that it is better to let 10 guilty men go free than keep one innocent in jail? Oh that's right we are talking about protecting the lawyers and they get to make the rules. So much for justice.</p></blockquote>
<p>Attorney client privilege does nothing to protect the lawyers - it protects the client.</p>
<p>It seems to me that there's an exception to most every privilege when imminent harm is involved.  I cannot imagine that the privilege is so inviolable that it would serve to protect a dead man and allow an innocent man to be harmed by the injustice of wrongful imprisonment.  But I'm not a judge in the deep south, either.</p>
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		<title>By: KJ</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/legal_ethics_gone_awry/comment-page-1/#comment-356390</link>
		<dc:creator>KJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 May 2008 21:01:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>What happen to the idea that it is better to let 10 guilty men go free than keep one innocent in jail?  Oh that&#039;s right we are talking about protecting the lawyers and they get to make the rules.  So much for justice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What happen to the idea that it is better to let 10 guilty men go free than keep one innocent in jail?  Oh that's right we are talking about protecting the lawyers and they get to make the rules.  So much for justice.</p>
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		<title>By: Bithead</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/legal_ethics_gone_awry/comment-page-1/#comment-356343</link>
		<dc:creator>Bithead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 May 2008 20:24:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/05/legal_ethics_gone_awry/#comment-356343</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;But, at a minimum, privilege should die with the client.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Perhaps from a legal standpoint, as well as a logistical one, this makes sense. And perhaps Hughes is correct on the ethics of the thing, as well, I don&#039;t know. these seem a lot of questions attached.

For example, I wonder if the deceased&#039;s family, etc was affected by this revelation. Other than the defendant being defended, what were the ramifications of the revelation? Could all the possibilities... the whole matrix of them... be accounted for properly by a law? Lawmakers, I fear, like to think... unjustifiably... that they can see all ends.

You call this statement what you will, but it appears to me clear that the one thing this case does is make it clear that morality is never as simple as a mere rulebook.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>But, at a minimum, privilege should die with the client.</p></blockquote>
<p>Perhaps from a legal standpoint, as well as a logistical one, this makes sense. And perhaps Hughes is correct on the ethics of the thing, as well, I don't know. these seem a lot of questions attached.</p>
<p>For example, I wonder if the deceased's family, etc was affected by this revelation. Other than the defendant being defended, what were the ramifications of the revelation? Could all the possibilities... the whole matrix of them... be accounted for properly by a law? Lawmakers, I fear, like to think... unjustifiably... that they can see all ends.</p>
<p>You call this statement what you will, but it appears to me clear that the one thing this case does is make it clear that morality is never as simple as a mere rulebook.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Knapp</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/legal_ethics_gone_awry/comment-page-1/#comment-356145</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Knapp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 May 2008 16:36:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>legion,

It&#039;s more complicated than that, because a defendant may have committed an the action which underlies the crime, but still not be guilty of the crime.  For example, if you kill someone in the heat of passion, you&#039;re not guilty of first degree murder, because you didn&#039;t satisfy the &quot;premeditated&quot; element of the charge.

Additionally, you can defend someone you know is guilty without lying to the court.  All you have to do is argue that there is a reasonable doubt, not that the client is not guilty.  Additionally, a defense attorney is obligated to plea what his client wants.  That said, in some jurisdictions a lawyer might be ethically bound to encourage a client to plea guilty in such circumstances.  But a lawyer can&#039;t MAKE the client plea guilty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>legion,</p>
<p>It's more complicated than that, because a defendant may have committed an the action which underlies the crime, but still not be guilty of the crime.  For example, if you kill someone in the heat of passion, you're not guilty of first degree murder, because you didn't satisfy the "premeditated" element of the charge.</p>
<p>Additionally, you can defend someone you know is guilty without lying to the court.  All you have to do is argue that there is a reasonable doubt, not that the client is not guilty.  Additionally, a defense attorney is obligated to plea what his client wants.  That said, in some jurisdictions a lawyer might be ethically bound to encourage a client to plea guilty in such circumstances.  But a lawyer can't MAKE the client plea guilty.</p>
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		<title>By: legion</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/legal_ethics_gone_awry/comment-page-1/#comment-356139</link>
		<dc:creator>legion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 May 2008 16:24:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/05/legal_ethics_gone_awry/#comment-356139</guid>
		<description>Well, IANAL and all that, but I was under the impression that while a defendant&#039;s lawyer can do all sorts of things to keep him from being convicted, but flatly lying in court is not permissible. If his client openly confesses to him, isn&#039;t there some sort of need for him to stop being that guy&#039;s lawyer, even if (the lawyer) he doesn&#039;t testify?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, IANAL and all that, but I was under the impression that while a defendant's lawyer can do all sorts of things to keep him from being convicted, but flatly lying in court is not permissible. If his client openly confesses to him, isn't there some sort of need for him to stop being that guy's lawyer, even if (the lawyer) he doesn't testify?</p>
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