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	<title>Comments on: Libby Juror: Scooter Guilty but the Fall Guy</title>
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		<title>By: M1EK</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/libby_juror_scooter_guilty_but_the_fall_guy/comment-page-1/#comment-115724</link>
		<dc:creator>M1EK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2007 16:18:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/03/libby_juror_scooter_guilty_but_the_fall_guy/#comment-115724</guid>
		<description>&quot;She wasn’t covert.&quot;

You keep asserting this as if it were actually proven to be true, when all of the data available suggests the opposite (why, in other words, would the CIA refer to the DOJ for prosecution, and the DOJ acquiesce and start the investigation, otherwise?)

Your willingness to assert that talking point in the absence of facts calls your veracity into question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"She wasn&rsquo;t covert."</p>
<p>You keep asserting this as if it were actually proven to be true, when all of the data available suggests the opposite (why, in other words, would the CIA refer to the DOJ for prosecution, and the DOJ acquiesce and start the investigation, otherwise?)</p>
<p>Your willingness to assert that talking point in the absence of facts calls your veracity into question.</p>
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		<title>By: Steven Plunk</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/libby_juror_scooter_guilty_but_the_fall_guy/comment-page-1/#comment-115659</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Plunk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2007 00:13:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/03/libby_juror_scooter_guilty_but_the_fall_guy/#comment-115659</guid>
		<description>M1EK,

I am not repeating anyone&#039;s talking points but just looking at the facts and reaching reasonable conclusions.  Joe Wilson has been playing this for his own personal benefit far more than the benefit of our country.

British intelligence was the source of the Nigeria claim and it was credible.  Wilson botched his mission in a grand style and I doubt he would have been sent if not for his wife being involved.

The issue of the &quot;outing&quot; is dead.  No charges have been filed or will be filed because no crime was committed.  She wasn&#039;t covert.

Referring something for an investigation and being unhappy about it is not proof of a crime either.

To some degree I, like yourself, am gauging credibility based upon certain intangible factors.  In my case Wilson&#039;s behavior ruins his credibility, he acts like a celebrity rather than a public servant who has been wronged.  To me and many others he has no credibility.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>M1EK,</p>
<p>I am not repeating anyone's talking points but just looking at the facts and reaching reasonable conclusions.  Joe Wilson has been playing this for his own personal benefit far more than the benefit of our country.</p>
<p>British intelligence was the source of the Nigeria claim and it was credible.  Wilson botched his mission in a grand style and I doubt he would have been sent if not for his wife being involved.</p>
<p>The issue of the "outing" is dead.  No charges have been filed or will be filed because no crime was committed.  She wasn't covert.</p>
<p>Referring something for an investigation and being unhappy about it is not proof of a crime either.</p>
<p>To some degree I, like yourself, am gauging credibility based upon certain intangible factors.  In my case Wilson's behavior ruins his credibility, he acts like a celebrity rather than a public servant who has been wronged.  To me and many others he has no credibility.</p>
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		<title>By: M1EK</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/libby_juror_scooter_guilty_but_the_fall_guy/comment-page-1/#comment-115588</link>
		<dc:creator>M1EK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Mar 2007 17:35:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/03/libby_juror_scooter_guilty_but_the_fall_guy/#comment-115588</guid>
		<description>Steven,

You are wrong: the balance of the evidence is that Wilson was right, and that Plame was serving undercover at some point during the last 5 years (for a quick summary, see Wikipedia&#039;s page on the Legal Issues in the case).

You can repeat these talking points all you want, but the fact that the CIA referred the matter to the DOJ, and that former CIA agents were unanimous in their disapproval pretty much shows which position is more credible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steven,</p>
<p>You are wrong: the balance of the evidence is that Wilson was right, and that Plame was serving undercover at some point during the last 5 years (for a quick summary, see Wikipedia's page on the Legal Issues in the case).</p>
<p>You can repeat these talking points all you want, but the fact that the CIA referred the matter to the DOJ, and that former CIA agents were unanimous in their disapproval pretty much shows which position is more credible.</p>
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		<title>By: RJN</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/libby_juror_scooter_guilty_but_the_fall_guy/comment-page-1/#comment-115507</link>
		<dc:creator>RJN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Mar 2007 04:50:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/03/libby_juror_scooter_guilty_but_the_fall_guy/#comment-115507</guid>
		<description>That remark about motivation to lie caught my eye, immediately, as I read your post. Did the jury have preconceptions? Should the judge have let the fact that no crimes were found to have been committed before the grand jury - the one Libby testified before - convened be mentioned in the Libby trial?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That remark about motivation to lie caught my eye, immediately, as I read your post. Did the jury have preconceptions? Should the judge have let the fact that no crimes were found to have been committed before the grand jury - the one Libby testified before - convened be mentioned in the Libby trial?</p>
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		<title>By: Steven Plunk</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/libby_juror_scooter_guilty_but_the_fall_guy/comment-page-1/#comment-115474</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Plunk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2007 23:10:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/03/libby_juror_scooter_guilty_but_the_fall_guy/#comment-115474</guid>
		<description>Hal,

If you have something to say I would like to hear it.  If you just want to throw insults save your breath.

Joe Wilson mislead the American public about what he found in Nigeria, I don&#039;t think that is disputed.  His wife was not covert, I don&#039;t think that is disputed.  How can you defend yourself from political slander other than tell the truth about Wilson, his wife, and the lies he told?

Your thoughts concerning this are appreciated but your guesses about my leisure time are silly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hal,</p>
<p>If you have something to say I would like to hear it.  If you just want to throw insults save your breath.</p>
<p>Joe Wilson mislead the American public about what he found in Nigeria, I don't think that is disputed.  His wife was not covert, I don't think that is disputed.  How can you defend yourself from political slander other than tell the truth about Wilson, his wife, and the lies he told?</p>
<p>Your thoughts concerning this are appreciated but your guesses about my leisure time are silly.</p>
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		<title>By: Bithead</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/libby_juror_scooter_guilty_but_the_fall_guy/comment-page-1/#comment-115444</link>
		<dc:creator>Bithead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2007 20:33:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/03/libby_juror_scooter_guilty_but_the_fall_guy/#comment-115444</guid>
		<description>Collins is a neighbor of Russert, and a freind of Bob Woodward.

Hmmmm.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Collins is a neighbor of Russert, and a freind of Bob Woodward.</p>
<p>Hmmmm.</p>
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		<title>By: Tlaloc</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/libby_juror_scooter_guilty_but_the_fall_guy/comment-page-1/#comment-115413</link>
		<dc:creator>Tlaloc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2007 16:45:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/03/libby_juror_scooter_guilty_but_the_fall_guy/#comment-115413</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;By all indications, the Office of the Vice President did not in fact send Joe Wilson to Niger and had never seen his report until the Nick Kristoff column in the NYT. 
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Uh where do you get that from?  The CIA has directly said and IIRC has memos showing that the OVP asked them to investigate the Niger claim.  Their response was to send Wilson.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>By all indications, the Office of the Vice President did not in fact send Joe Wilson to Niger and had never seen his report until the Nick Kristoff column in the NYT.
</p></blockquote>
<p>Uh where do you get that from?  The CIA has directly said and IIRC has memos showing that the OVP asked them to investigate the Niger claim.  Their response was to send Wilson.</p>
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		<title>By: Hal</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/libby_juror_scooter_guilty_but_the_fall_guy/comment-page-1/#comment-115410</link>
		<dc:creator>Hal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2007 16:38:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/03/libby_juror_scooter_guilty_but_the_fall_guy/#comment-115410</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;The scandal is Joe Wilson lying about his trip to Nigeria and the inability of the Bush administration to set the record straight.&lt;/em&gt;

Wow.

Lay off the doobies, dude.  Some people simply shouldn&#039;t smoke pot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>The scandal is Joe Wilson lying about his trip to Nigeria and the inability of the Bush administration to set the record straight.</em></p>
<p>Wow.</p>
<p>Lay off the doobies, dude.  Some people simply shouldn't smoke pot.</p>
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		<title>By: Steven Plunk</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/libby_juror_scooter_guilty_but_the_fall_guy/comment-page-1/#comment-115402</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Plunk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2007 16:21:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/03/libby_juror_scooter_guilty_but_the_fall_guy/#comment-115402</guid>
		<description>The scandal is Joe Wilson lying about his trip to Nigeria and the inability of the Bush administration to set the record straight.  If not for the collusion between the press and the Democrats truth could have been salvaged and this mess avoided.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The scandal is Joe Wilson lying about his trip to Nigeria and the inability of the Bush administration to set the record straight.  If not for the collusion between the press and the Democrats truth could have been salvaged and this mess avoided.</p>
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		<title>By: Unpartisan.com Political News and Blog Aggregator</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/libby_juror_scooter_guilty_but_the_fall_guy/comment-page-1/#comment-115384</link>
		<dc:creator>Unpartisan.com Political News and Blog Aggregator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2007 14:56:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/03/libby_juror_scooter_guilty_but_the_fall_guy/#comment-115384</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Juror: Libby Was &quot;The Fall Guy&quot;...&lt;/strong&gt;

Jurors in the Scooter Libby trial say they spent a week just laying out the evidence, and their guil...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Juror: Libby Was "The Fall Guy"...</strong></p>
<p>Jurors in the Scooter Libby trial say they spent a week just laying out the evidence, and their guil...</p>
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		<title>By: Banksman</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/libby_juror_scooter_guilty_but_the_fall_guy/comment-page-1/#comment-115379</link>
		<dc:creator>Banksman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2007 13:37:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/03/libby_juror_scooter_guilty_but_the_fall_guy/#comment-115379</guid>
		<description>It just proves again that it&#039;s usually the cover-up not the crime that gets you - if only because the big fish usually leave the covering up to someone else.  The phenomenon can also be seen in action in the UK in relation to the alleged offering of peerages for loans.

As to Scooter himself, he may be the scapegoat (indeed there&#039;s a funny piece up on &lt;a href=&quot;http://asadodo.blogspot.com/2007/03/lewis-scooter-libbys-political.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;As A Dodo&lt;/a&gt;  which suggests he&#039;ll be buried at the Lee Majors Church of the Fall Guy) but he certainly had a role in the scandal, which he played to the full.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It just proves again that it's usually the cover-up not the crime that gets you - if only because the big fish usually leave the covering up to someone else.  The phenomenon can also be seen in action in the UK in relation to the alleged offering of peerages for loans.</p>
<p>As to Scooter himself, he may be the scapegoat (indeed there's a funny piece up on <a href="http://asadodo.blogspot.com/2007/03/lewis-scooter-libbys-political.html" rel="nofollow">As A Dodo</a>  which suggests he'll be buried at the Lee Majors Church of the Fall Guy) but he certainly had a role in the scandal, which he played to the full.</p>
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		<title>By: Anon</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/libby_juror_scooter_guilty_but_the_fall_guy/comment-page-1/#comment-115377</link>
		<dc:creator>Anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2007 13:26:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/03/libby_juror_scooter_guilty_but_the_fall_guy/#comment-115377</guid>
		<description>To a large degree, though, I think Bush created this mess himself. If revealing Plame&#039;s employment was never a crime, then why didn&#039;t Bush simply come clean from the beginning? It might have been a minor political embarrassment, but I seriously doubt it would have left any lasting impression on the American voting public.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To a large degree, though, I think Bush created this mess himself. If revealing Plame's employment was never a crime, then why didn't Bush simply come clean from the beginning? It might have been a minor political embarrassment, but I seriously doubt it would have left any lasting impression on the American voting public.</p>
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		<title>By: The Hindsight Factor &#124; We Hold These Truths to be Self-Evident</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/libby_juror_scooter_guilty_but_the_fall_guy/comment-page-1/#comment-126952</link>
		<dc:creator>The Hindsight Factor &#124; We Hold These Truths to be Self-Evident</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/03/libby_juror_scooter_guilty_but_the_fall_guy/#comment-126952</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-pre%--&gt; Talk Left- Libby trial : Libby: Inside the Jury Room Maine Web Report - Libby Feed: Washington Post Editorial on Libby trial CourtTV - Libby trial: post-Libby OTB-Libby Trial: Libby Juror: Scooter Guilty but the Fall Guy Wizbang - Libby trial: When it says Libby, Libby, Libby, on the verdict, verdict, verdict... Talk Left- Libby trial : Libby: Jane and Marcy&#039;s Final Trial V-Log Talk Left- Libby trial : Scooter Libby&#039;&lt;!--%kramer-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-pre%--> Talk Left- Libby trial : Libby: Inside the Jury Room Maine Web Report - Libby Feed: Washington Post Editorial on Libby trial CourtTV - Libby trial: post-Libby OTB-Libby Trial: Libby Juror: Scooter Guilty but the Fall Guy Wizbang - Libby trial: When it says Libby, Libby, Libby, on the verdict, verdict, verdict... Talk Left- Libby trial : Libby: Jane and Marcy's Final Trial V-Log Talk Left- Libby trial : Scooter Libby'<!--%kramer-post%--></p>
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		<title>By: 186k Per Second »</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/libby_juror_scooter_guilty_but_the_fall_guy/comment-page-1/#comment-126953</link>
		<dc:creator>186k Per Second »</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/03/libby_juror_scooter_guilty_but_the_fall_guy/#comment-126953</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-pre%--&gt;Maine Web Report - Libby Feed: Washington Post Editorial on Libby trial I&#039;ve been tied up for the past week or so, I&#039;ll ci...CourtTV - Libby trial: post-Libby When you&#039;re covering a verdict, your heart&amp;#39...OTB-Libby Trial: Libby Juror: Scooter Guilty but the Fall Guy Scooter Libby juror Denis Collins explains the tho...Wizbang - Libby trial: When it says Libby, Libby, Libby, on the verdict, verdict, verdict... ...then Scooter, Scooter, Scooter is a convict, co...&lt;!--%kramer-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-pre%-->Maine Web Report - Libby Feed: Washington Post Editorial on Libby trial I've been tied up for the past week or so, I'll ci...CourtTV - Libby trial: post-Libby When you're covering a verdict, your heart&#39...OTB-Libby Trial: Libby Juror: Scooter Guilty but the Fall Guy Scooter Libby juror Denis Collins explains the tho...Wizbang - Libby trial: When it says Libby, Libby, Libby, on the verdict, verdict, verdict... ...then Scooter, Scooter, Scooter is a convict, co...<!--%kramer-post%--></p>
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