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	<title>Comments on: Links on Schiavo and Persistent Vegetative State</title>
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		<title>By: Doc Ducker</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/links_on_schiavo_and_persistent_vegetative_state/comment-page-1/#comment-41013</link>
		<dc:creator>Doc Ducker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Mar 2005 14:39:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=9742#comment-41013</guid>
		<description>Ladies and Gentlemen:

There&#039;s nothing left to fight over.  All the evidence and opinions have been weighed.  Our judicial system has made the decision.  Now we must go on.  Due process has had it&#039;s &quot;due&quot;.

Doc</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ladies and Gentlemen:</p>
<p>There's nothing left to fight over.  All the evidence and opinions have been weighed.  Our judicial system has made the decision.  Now we must go on.  Due process has had it's "due".</p>
<p>Doc</p>
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		<title>By: Crystal</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/links_on_schiavo_and_persistent_vegetative_state/comment-page-1/#comment-40574</link>
		<dc:creator>Crystal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Mar 2005 13:16:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=9742#comment-40574</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve read about this case for several years, and recently watched the videos they have online.

While *I* would not wish to live like that, the most startling of the videos to me is the &quot;swab test&quot;.

There are certain reflexes that are referred to as &quot;infantile&quot; -- that when the higher brain is not functioning (or in the case of infants, has not learned how to function completely yet) become more obvious.  

One of the most well-documented infantile reflex is the &quot;rooting&quot; reflex -- that if a person&#039;s cheek is rubbed on one side close to the mouth, they will turn toward the rubbing.  It&#039;s one reason some new mothers have difficulties feeding their babies -- instead of rubbing the breast or the bottle&#039;s nipple on the cheek, they try to force the head over -- by putting pressure on exactly the wrong side of the mouth, and the baby turns toward the pressure, not towards the breast.

It&#039;s apparent that not only does Terri respond to pressure on the lips or the cheek, she does not exhibit a &quot;rooting&quot; reflex.  Instead, she is actively trying to *avoid* the pressure -- presumably because when a person hasn&#039;t eaten by mouth in a long time or is mouth-breathing, their lips and mucous membranes in their mouth become incredibly sensitive -- and yes, painful, if they can feel pain. 

As for 28 year olds with a living will -- I made out my first living will when I was 21.  I&#039;m 25 now.  I was not motivated by this case to do so, either.  While I personally would not want to live that way, I can&#039;t make that same decision for another.  

The one thing that really bugs me about this case is that I&#039;ve heard Michael Schaivo&#039;s religious beliefs used as a defense for his behavior -- not divorcing her.  I have a feeling it is more due to money, and not because of the whole medical trust issue either.  At least in Arkansas, if divorce is based upon a spouse being declared mentally incompetent or being instituionalized (the only grounds Michael would have), the divorcing spouse is responsible for all medical care for the incapacitated spouse *for the rest of their lives*. 

If he divorces her, he won&#039;t be her guardian, and she could live several more years if her parents continue to advocate artificial nutrition.  If Florida has a similar law to Arkansas regarding fiscal responsibility for the incapacitated ex-spouse, he&#039;d be out a lot more money than if he &quot;gave the trust fund to charity&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I've read about this case for several years, and recently watched the videos they have online.</p>
<p>While *I* would not wish to live like that, the most startling of the videos to me is the "swab test".</p>
<p>There are certain reflexes that are referred to as "infantile" -- that when the higher brain is not functioning (or in the case of infants, has not learned how to function completely yet) become more obvious.  </p>
<p>One of the most well-documented infantile reflex is the "rooting" reflex -- that if a person's cheek is rubbed on one side close to the mouth, they will turn toward the rubbing.  It's one reason some new mothers have difficulties feeding their babies -- instead of rubbing the breast or the bottle's nipple on the cheek, they try to force the head over -- by putting pressure on exactly the wrong side of the mouth, and the baby turns toward the pressure, not towards the breast.</p>
<p>It's apparent that not only does Terri respond to pressure on the lips or the cheek, she does not exhibit a "rooting" reflex.  Instead, she is actively trying to *avoid* the pressure -- presumably because when a person hasn't eaten by mouth in a long time or is mouth-breathing, their lips and mucous membranes in their mouth become incredibly sensitive -- and yes, painful, if they can feel pain. </p>
<p>As for 28 year olds with a living will -- I made out my first living will when I was 21.  I'm 25 now.  I was not motivated by this case to do so, either.  While I personally would not want to live that way, I can't make that same decision for another.  </p>
<p>The one thing that really bugs me about this case is that I've heard Michael Schaivo's religious beliefs used as a defense for his behavior -- not divorcing her.  I have a feeling it is more due to money, and not because of the whole medical trust issue either.  At least in Arkansas, if divorce is based upon a spouse being declared mentally incompetent or being instituionalized (the only grounds Michael would have), the divorcing spouse is responsible for all medical care for the incapacitated spouse *for the rest of their lives*. </p>
<p>If he divorces her, he won't be her guardian, and she could live several more years if her parents continue to advocate artificial nutrition.  If Florida has a similar law to Arkansas regarding fiscal responsibility for the incapacitated ex-spouse, he'd be out a lot more money than if he "gave the trust fund to charity".</p>
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		<title>By: Lisa Lazenby</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/links_on_schiavo_and_persistent_vegetative_state/comment-page-1/#comment-40507</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa Lazenby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Mar 2005 03:05:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=9742#comment-40507</guid>
		<description>I have had it up to my eyeballs with the Terri Schiavo case. Religion and politics do not play into this case. Terri, as I would, do not want to be in this type of condition. She expressed it to her husband; and unfortunately her parents are wasting tax payers dollars to go against her wishes.

Even if the feeding tube were re-inserted, she is still, and will always be, a vegetable. If I could not function in some way, I would not want to be left alive.

One thing I hate the most is the image of a female body and what occurs during the period of time when the body has no fluids or food.

I know from personal expereience, the loss of my fataher, according to Hospice, that a natural lack of water and food provides an anethesticing effect. Meaning that the patient is in no pain, what so ever. It is a natural peaceful death. That is what we wish from all of our loved ones.

My father died very peacefuly from cancer.

It makes me soooo mad when people try to capitalizez on information, without communicating the true facts. Shame on them!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have had it up to my eyeballs with the Terri Schiavo case. Religion and politics do not play into this case. Terri, as I would, do not want to be in this type of condition. She expressed it to her husband; and unfortunately her parents are wasting tax payers dollars to go against her wishes.</p>
<p>Even if the feeding tube were re-inserted, she is still, and will always be, a vegetable. If I could not function in some way, I would not want to be left alive.</p>
<p>One thing I hate the most is the image of a female body and what occurs during the period of time when the body has no fluids or food.</p>
<p>I know from personal expereience, the loss of my fataher, according to Hospice, that a natural lack of water and food provides an anethesticing effect. Meaning that the patient is in no pain, what so ever. It is a natural peaceful death. That is what we wish from all of our loved ones.</p>
<p>My father died very peacefuly from cancer.</p>
<p>It makes me soooo mad when people try to capitalizez on information, without communicating the true facts. Shame on them!</p>
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		<title>By: Pete Adams</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/links_on_schiavo_and_persistent_vegetative_state/comment-page-1/#comment-40470</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete Adams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Mar 2005 16:55:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=9742#comment-40470</guid>
		<description>Laurie Stauffer, you&#039;re an idiot. You need to research what you&#039;re talking about before you go running your mouth. She would never have that same &quot;luxery&quot; (learn how to spell). He doesn&#039;t sit at home having lavish dinners. This isn&#039;t tourture (again with the spelling). She has medications to remove any pain. She most likely will not recover. She has been in this state for 15 years. According the the American Academy of Neurology, the chance for a good recovery from a PVS after 12 months is 7 percent. The chances of any recovery of consciousness after 12 months is 52 percent, and she still has a 50 percent chance of severe disability. So do some research before you go off on a drunken rant about him doing this again. As if this would ever happen twice to the same person.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Laurie Stauffer, you're an idiot. You need to research what you're talking about before you go running your mouth. She would never have that same "luxery" (learn how to spell). He doesn't sit at home having lavish dinners. This isn't tourture (again with the spelling). She has medications to remove any pain. She most likely will not recover. She has been in this state for 15 years. According the the American Academy of Neurology, the chance for a good recovery from a PVS after 12 months is 7 percent. The chances of any recovery of consciousness after 12 months is 52 percent, and she still has a 50 percent chance of severe disability. So do some research before you go off on a drunken rant about him doing this again. As if this would ever happen twice to the same person.</p>
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		<title>By: Laurie Stauffer</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/links_on_schiavo_and_persistent_vegetative_state/comment-page-1/#comment-40439</link>
		<dc:creator>Laurie Stauffer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Mar 2005 04:56:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=9742#comment-40439</guid>
		<description>This is the most outradgeous thing I have ever Seen. In animal cases like this, one would be arrested. It is unjust and tourture of a human being. Michael Shiavo gets to sit in his home and enjoy lavishing dinners, deserts and drinks. While he denies his wife that same luxery. This is not a man who can have a heart to love, if he was, he would at least let them give her water and foods by mouth. Then if she dies having been given these things. Maybe Terri can die with dignity and greatfulness to him. There is no honor and dignity in forcing her to die in a way of basically execution. I bring a big question???? WILL MICHAEL SHIAVO DO THIS AGAIN IF HE GETS THE CHANCE... YES he will.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is the most outradgeous thing I have ever Seen. In animal cases like this, one would be arrested. It is unjust and tourture of a human being. Michael Shiavo gets to sit in his home and enjoy lavishing dinners, deserts and drinks. While he denies his wife that same luxery. This is not a man who can have a heart to love, if he was, he would at least let them give her water and foods by mouth. Then if she dies having been given these things. Maybe Terri can die with dignity and greatfulness to him. There is no honor and dignity in forcing her to die in a way of basically execution. I bring a big question???? WILL MICHAEL SHIAVO DO THIS AGAIN IF HE GETS THE CHANCE... YES he will.</p>
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		<title>By: J Bowen</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/links_on_schiavo_and_persistent_vegetative_state/comment-page-1/#comment-40287</link>
		<dc:creator>J Bowen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Mar 2005 01:50:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=9742#comment-40287</guid>
		<description>I would take Wolfson&#039;s conclusions with a grain of salt.  What he would know of Terri&#039;s care would have to have come from logs, and we have testimony showing that Michael Schiavo 
manipulated their contents.  The same witness&#039;s account portrays him as &quot;a nursing home administrator&#039;s nightmare&quot; in a distinctly different sense.  Patterico posted about that a few days ago.

And I want to see this woman get an autopsy.  Incidentally, my information is that Michael Schiavo doesn&#039;t want one - he wants her cremated right away.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would take Wolfson's conclusions with a grain of salt.  What he would know of Terri's care would have to have come from logs, and we have testimony showing that Michael Schiavo<br />
manipulated their contents.  The same witness's account portrays him as "a nursing home administrator's nightmare" in a distinctly different sense.  Patterico posted about that a few days ago.</p>
<p>And I want to see this woman get an autopsy.  Incidentally, my information is that Michael Schiavo doesn't want one - he wants her cremated right away.</p>
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		<title>By: The SmarterCop</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/links_on_schiavo_and_persistent_vegetative_state/comment-page-1/#comment-40044</link>
		<dc:creator>The SmarterCop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:55:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=9742#comment-40044</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;TERRI UPDATE - MARCH 23RD&lt;/strong&gt;
- DENIED AGAIN, this time by the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals. If one can find any bright spot in this campaign of life versus death, it is the single dissent offered by Judge Charles R. Wilson of the 11th:...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>TERRI UPDATE - MARCH 23RD</strong><br />
- DENIED AGAIN, this time by the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals. If one can find any bright spot in this campaign of life versus death, it is the single dissent offered by Judge Charles R. Wilson of the 11th:...</p>
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		<title>By: charlotte callejo</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/links_on_schiavo_and_persistent_vegetative_state/comment-page-1/#comment-40029</link>
		<dc:creator>charlotte callejo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Mar 2005 12:20:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=9742#comment-40029</guid>
		<description>Good information. The Shiavo case has moved to the &quot;we can&#039;t talk about this&quot; list at my house. My spouse is against the courts ruling and I am for the ruling. 
Lets face it, All the 28 year olds out there who have a living will, Please raise your hand. Oh I see,  only a handful.  I believe M Schiavo when he says she &quot;told&quot; me she never wanted to live the way she is living now. As her husband he had the right to make the decision to remove her tube ions ago. Funny, the Shindlers  thought he was  &quot;OK&quot; enough to let hime move into their home  for a year after her accident, yet now M. Shiavo is villified.
 Had M. Schiavo said at any point &quot; You can keep her&quot; to the Shindlers, M. Shiavo  would have been villified.
What is interesting to me, is how the media brings up how M. Schiavo &quot; may have been  abusive to Terry&quot; and that&#039;s how she had the heart attack, when the truth is she had an eating disorder. 
Lets see, the right to lifer&#039;s have their flag draped around Terry, the rabid conservative  republicans have their flag wrapped around her. Where is the eating disorder coalition?
In my opinion this tradgey is a very private affair with no winners. The state goverment, the 
federal goverment and the different  causes political and others have NO BUISNESS in this matter.
The Shindlers lost their &quot;baby girl&quot; 15 years ago and have refused to let go and grieve. What a tradgey.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good information. The Shiavo case has moved to the "we can't talk about this" list at my house. My spouse is against the courts ruling and I am for the ruling.<br />
Lets face it, All the 28 year olds out there who have a living will, Please raise your hand. Oh I see,  only a handful.  I believe M Schiavo when he says she "told" me she never wanted to live the way she is living now. As her husband he had the right to make the decision to remove her tube ions ago. Funny, the Shindlers  thought he was  "OK" enough to let hime move into their home  for a year after her accident, yet now M. Shiavo is villified.<br />
 Had M. Schiavo said at any point " You can keep her" to the Shindlers, M. Shiavo  would have been villified.<br />
What is interesting to me, is how the media brings up how M. Schiavo " may have been  abusive to Terry" and that's how she had the heart attack, when the truth is she had an eating disorder.<br />
Lets see, the right to lifer's have their flag draped around Terry, the rabid conservative  republicans have their flag wrapped around her. Where is the eating disorder coalition?<br />
In my opinion this tradgey is a very private affair with no winners. The state goverment, the<br />
federal goverment and the different  causes political and others have NO BUISNESS in this matter.<br />
The Shindlers lost their "baby girl" 15 years ago and have refused to let go and grieve. What a tradgey.</p>
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		<title>By: Little Miss Attila</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/links_on_schiavo_and_persistent_vegetative_state/comment-page-1/#comment-40025</link>
		<dc:creator>Little Miss Attila</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Mar 2005 08:36:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=9742#comment-40025</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Not That You Wanted to Hear This . . .&lt;/strong&gt;
James sums up the facts in the Terry Schiavo case. Obviously, we need to get a little more organized around this issue as a society. We need more living wills. But it&#039;s very hard to paint Michael Schiavo as some...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Not That You Wanted to Hear This . . .</strong><br />
James sums up the facts in the Terry Schiavo case. Obviously, we need to get a little more organized around this issue as a society. We need more living wills. But it's very hard to paint Michael Schiavo as some...</p>
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		<title>By: carla</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/links_on_schiavo_and_persistent_vegetative_state/comment-page-1/#comment-40002</link>
		<dc:creator>carla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Mar 2005 23:54:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=9742#comment-40002</guid>
		<description>This is my first visit to this blog.  I don&#039;t know if you tend to lean right or left or both.  But I&#039;d like to commend you for your commentary on the Schiavo case.

There is so much misinformation floating out there...much of it from rightwing sources. Your effort to really look at the facts is great.  Thanks.

I have written several pieces for my blog on the Schiavo situation.  It is one that rattles me to the core.

I&#039;m concerned that even living wills, done in writing will now be compromised by Congress&#039; actions.  Given that two courts (including the Second Court of Appeals) yielded definitive rulings on Terri&#039;s wishes, Congress stepped in creating a horrible precedent.

Again, thanks for your commentary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is my first visit to this blog.  I don't know if you tend to lean right or left or both.  But I'd like to commend you for your commentary on the Schiavo case.</p>
<p>There is so much misinformation floating out there...much of it from rightwing sources. Your effort to really look at the facts is great.  Thanks.</p>
<p>I have written several pieces for my blog on the Schiavo situation.  It is one that rattles me to the core.</p>
<p>I'm concerned that even living wills, done in writing will now be compromised by Congress' actions.  Given that two courts (including the Second Court of Appeals) yielded definitive rulings on Terri's wishes, Congress stepped in creating a horrible precedent.</p>
<p>Again, thanks for your commentary.</p>
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		<title>By: TnTexas</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/links_on_schiavo_and_persistent_vegetative_state/comment-page-1/#comment-39981</link>
		<dc:creator>TnTexas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Mar 2005 20:56:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=9742#comment-39981</guid>
		<description>Have you read either of these articles? They appear to contain information that if true contradicts common &quot;knowledge&quot; about Terri&#039;s situation.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.crisismagazine.com/january2004/johansen.htm&quot;&gt;Killing Terri Schiavo&lt;/a&gt;

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/johansen200503160848.asp&quot;&gt;Starving for a Fair Diagnosis&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have you read either of these articles? They appear to contain information that if true contradicts common "knowledge" about Terri's situation.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.crisismagazine.com/january2004/johansen.htm">Killing Terri Schiavo</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/johansen200503160848.asp">Starving for a Fair Diagnosis</a></p>
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		<title>By: PoliBlog:  Politics is the Master Science</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/links_on_schiavo_and_persistent_vegetative_state/comment-page-1/#comment-39961</link>
		<dc:creator>PoliBlog:  Politics is the Master Science</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Mar 2005 17:58:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=9742#comment-39961</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;On PVS&lt;/strong&gt;
James Joyner provides Links on Schiavo and Persistent Vegetative State
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>On PVS</strong><br />
James Joyner provides Links on Schiavo and Persistent Vegetative State</p>
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