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	<title>Comments on: Marines Say Western Iraq Lost</title>
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		<title>By: Bart Winkelford</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/marines_say_western_iraq_lost/comment-page-1/#comment-105414</link>
		<dc:creator>Bart Winkelford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Nov 2006 17:24:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/11/marines_say_western_iraq_lost/#comment-105414</guid>
		<description>follow the money , and who benifits...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>follow the money , and who benifits...</p>
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		<title>By: LJD</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/marines_say_western_iraq_lost/comment-page-1/#comment-105371</link>
		<dc:creator>LJD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Nov 2006 12:45:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/11/marines_say_western_iraq_lost/#comment-105371</guid>
		<description>Let me add that the Army (as a whole) should not be peace-keepers, policemen, nation-builders, or social workers.  However, this is the evolution of our roles given the circumstances, for both Soldier and Marine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me add that the Army (as a whole) should not be peace-keepers, policemen, nation-builders, or social workers.  However, this is the evolution of our roles given the circumstances, for both Soldier and Marine.</p>
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		<title>By: james</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/marines_say_western_iraq_lost/comment-page-1/#comment-105324</link>
		<dc:creator>james</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Nov 2006 22:49:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/11/marines_say_western_iraq_lost/#comment-105324</guid>
		<description>marines are just &quot;peacekeepers&quot; in Iraq.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>marines are just "peacekeepers" in Iraq.</p>
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		<title>By: james</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/marines_say_western_iraq_lost/comment-page-1/#comment-105322</link>
		<dc:creator>james</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Nov 2006 22:04:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/11/marines_say_western_iraq_lost/#comment-105322</guid>
		<description>Marines are &quot;naval infantry&quot;. Their Job was to Island hop and take ground. Then they would move on while the navy occupied the ground taken. Marines have no place being out there in the middle of the desert. They&#039;er marines, naval infantry. They&#039;er not the Army. The Army is the land force.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marines are "naval infantry". Their Job was to Island hop and take ground. Then they would move on while the navy occupied the ground taken. Marines have no place being out there in the middle of the desert. They'er marines, naval infantry. They'er not the Army. The Army is the land force.</p>
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		<title>By: legion</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/marines_say_western_iraq_lost/comment-page-1/#comment-105316</link>
		<dc:creator>legion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Nov 2006 20:42:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/11/marines_say_western_iraq_lost/#comment-105316</guid>
		<description>Hey, Anderson, do you have any idea what a battleship does to property values?

-legion, in the AF, whose idea of holding ground involves a 10-year lease w/option to buy...

And while I respect Col Devlin&#039;s candor, I&#039;m underwhelmed by his proposals.
&lt;blockquote&gt;Devlin outlined several possibilities for bringing stability to the area, including establishing a Sunni state in Anbar, creating a local paramilitary force to protect Sunnis and to offset Iranian influence, shifting local budget controls, and strengthening a committed Iraqi police force that has “proven remarkably resilient in most areas.”&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Establishing &#039;mini-states&#039; strikes me as a very iffy idea... unless they care more about establishing their own national entities that killing their rivals, it&#039;ll be largely indistinguishable from the worst days of Bosnia. And create a &#039;local paramilitary force&#039;? Out of what? The guys who couldn&#039;t get into the &lt;strike&gt;death squads&lt;/strike&gt; Iraqi Police? Shifting local budget controls requires a functioning central government, which I&#039;m not convinced of lately, and the current Iraqi PD has not shown itself to be nearly as &#039;effective&#039; as he thinks...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, Anderson, do you have any idea what a battleship does to property values?</p>
<p>-legion, in the AF, whose idea of holding ground involves a 10-year lease w/option to buy...</p>
<p>And while I respect Col Devlin's candor, I'm underwhelmed by his proposals.</p>
<blockquote><p>Devlin outlined several possibilities for bringing stability to the area, including establishing a Sunni state in Anbar, creating a local paramilitary force to protect Sunnis and to offset Iranian influence, shifting local budget controls, and strengthening a committed Iraqi police force that has “proven remarkably resilient in most areas.”</p></blockquote>
<p>Establishing 'mini-states' strikes me as a very iffy idea... unless they care more about establishing their own national entities that killing their rivals, it'll be largely indistinguishable from the worst days of Bosnia. And create a 'local paramilitary force'? Out of what? The guys who couldn't get into the <strike>death squads</strike> Iraqi Police? Shifting local budget controls requires a functioning central government, which I'm not convinced of lately, and the current Iraqi PD has not shown itself to be nearly as 'effective' as he thinks...</p>
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		<title>By: Pierres Service &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Marines Say Western Iraq Lost</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/marines_say_western_iraq_lost/comment-page-1/#comment-105311</link>
		<dc:creator>Pierres Service &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Marines Say Western Iraq Lost</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Nov 2006 20:15:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/11/marines_say_western_iraq_lost/#comment-105311</guid>
		<description>[...] &#8230; and financially independent that US forces no longer have the option for &#8230; the Iraqi people think we will abandon them. Given that we did it fifteen &#8230; Also interesting is that Devlin seems to be advocating the Go Long option: &#8230;Read more: here [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &#8230; and financially independent that US forces no longer have the option for &#8230; the Iraqi people think we will abandon them. Given that we did it fifteen &#8230; Also interesting is that Devlin seems to be advocating the Go Long option: &#8230;Read more: here [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/marines_say_western_iraq_lost/comment-page-1/#comment-105297</link>
		<dc:creator>Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Nov 2006 18:08:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/11/marines_say_western_iraq_lost/#comment-105297</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Then the Navy holds the ground taken&lt;/em&gt;

Now, *that* would be a sight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Then the Navy holds the ground taken</em></p>
<p>Now, *that* would be a sight.</p>
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		<title>By: Mensa Barbie Welcomes You</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/marines_say_western_iraq_lost/comment-page-1/#comment-105296</link>
		<dc:creator>Mensa Barbie Welcomes You</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Nov 2006 18:06:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/11/marines_say_western_iraq_lost/#comment-105296</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Media War is Not War Reality...&lt;/strong&gt;

For 3 years the Media has planned our surrender. Yet for 10, the diligent work of over 26 Nations continues to protect freedoms across the globe, and help allies share strategies to prevent &amp; root-out terror. (VIDEO!)...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Media War is Not War Reality...</strong></p>
<p>For 3 years the Media has planned our surrender. Yet for 10, the diligent work of over 26 Nations continues to protect freedoms across the globe, and help allies share strategies to prevent &amp; root-out terror. (VIDEO!)...</p>
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		<title>By: james</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/marines_say_western_iraq_lost/comment-page-1/#comment-105295</link>
		<dc:creator>james</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Nov 2006 17:56:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/11/marines_say_western_iraq_lost/#comment-105295</guid>
		<description>Marines aren&#039;t good at holding anything. They&#039;er better at doing island hopping. Then the Navy holds the ground taken. Marines aren&#039;t set up to be police.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marines aren't good at holding anything. They'er better at doing island hopping. Then the Navy holds the ground taken. Marines aren't set up to be police.</p>
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		<title>By: Cernig</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/marines_say_western_iraq_lost/comment-page-1/#comment-105289</link>
		<dc:creator>Cernig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Nov 2006 16:40:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/11/marines_say_western_iraq_lost/#comment-105289</guid>
		<description>Something doesn&#039;t pass the smell test here. Re-reading the article, I can&#039;t tell whether this is an officially sanctioned &quot;leak&quot; or not. Some phrases suggest it might be.

And then there is this paragraph:
&lt;blockquote&gt;The senior intelligence official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of his work, said yesterday that he largely agrees with Devlin&#039;s assessment, except that he thinks it overstates the role of al-Qaeda in the province. &quot;We argue that it is a major element in Anbar, but it is not the largest or most dominant group,&quot; he said.&lt;/blockquote&gt; Which totally pitches the headline on its ass. 

On this one, I&#039;m with &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.indcjournal.com/archives/002851.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Bill at INDC Journal&lt;/a&gt; who&#039;s put together an impressive list of previous reports showing that the indigenous tribes and insurgents have the ascendancy in the region, not Al Qaida. You should check it out, James - especially Bill Roggio&#039;s stuff. 

Roggio goes into detail about the ongoing feud between the Sunni tribes of the Anbar region and Al Qaeda. This, in a nutshell, is why talk of Al Qaeda winning anything except a swift death when U.S. troops leave is rubbish. Bill oversteps the mark, though, when he ascribes the feud to clever U.S. policy. The feud began and then the U.S. military decided to jump on a great bandwagon. One London Times article he cites has a U.S. officer saying: the sheikhs are only “pro-American in the sense that they are fighting the same enemy”. That seems about right to me.

Regards, Cernig</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Something doesn't pass the smell test here. Re-reading the article, I can't tell whether this is an officially sanctioned "leak" or not. Some phrases suggest it might be.</p>
<p>And then there is this paragraph:</p>
<blockquote><p>The senior intelligence official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of his work, said yesterday that he largely agrees with Devlin's assessment, except that he thinks it overstates the role of al-Qaeda in the province. "We argue that it is a major element in Anbar, but it is not the largest or most dominant group," he said.</p></blockquote>
<p> Which totally pitches the headline on its ass. </p>
<p>On this one, I'm with <a href="http://www.indcjournal.com/archives/002851.php" rel="nofollow">Bill at INDC Journal</a> who's put together an impressive list of previous reports showing that the indigenous tribes and insurgents have the ascendancy in the region, not Al Qaida. You should check it out, James - especially Bill Roggio's stuff. </p>
<p>Roggio goes into detail about the ongoing feud between the Sunni tribes of the Anbar region and Al Qaeda. This, in a nutshell, is why talk of Al Qaeda winning anything except a swift death when U.S. troops leave is rubbish. Bill oversteps the mark, though, when he ascribes the feud to clever U.S. policy. The feud began and then the U.S. military decided to jump on a great bandwagon. One London Times article he cites has a U.S. officer saying: the sheikhs are only “pro-American in the sense that they are fighting the same enemy”. That seems about right to me.</p>
<p>Regards, Cernig</p>
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		<title>By: Below The Beltway &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The First Nail In The Coffin</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/marines_say_western_iraq_lost/comment-page-1/#comment-105274</link>
		<dc:creator>Below The Beltway &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The First Nail In The Coffin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Nov 2006 15:00:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/11/marines_say_western_iraq_lost/#comment-105274</guid>
		<description>[...] More thoughts from James Joyner  Bookmark to:      &#160; [link] [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] More thoughts from James Joyner  Bookmark to:        [link] [...]</p>
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		<title>By: PoliBlog &#8482;: A Rough Draft of my Thoughts &#187; More Bad News from Iraq: Anbar is Lost</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/marines_say_western_iraq_lost/comment-page-1/#comment-105272</link>
		<dc:creator>PoliBlog &#8482;: A Rough Draft of my Thoughts &#187; More Bad News from Iraq: Anbar is Lost</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Nov 2006 14:43:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/11/marines_say_western_iraq_lost/#comment-105272</guid>
		<description>[...] James Joyner comments on the story here.   Filed under: Iraq &#124; &#124;Send TrackBack [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] James Joyner comments on the story here.   Filed under: Iraq | |Send TrackBack [...]</p>
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		<title>By: DC Loser</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/marines_say_western_iraq_lost/comment-page-1/#comment-105271</link>
		<dc:creator>DC Loser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Nov 2006 14:32:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/11/marines_say_western_iraq_lost/#comment-105271</guid>
		<description>http://www.fumento.com/military/ramadireturn.html

Andrew Sullivan linked to this article today, providing somewhat good news about progress in Ramadi.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.fumento.com/military/ramadireturn.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.fumento.com/military/ramadireturn.html</a></p>
<p>Andrew Sullivan linked to this article today, providing somewhat good news about progress in Ramadi.</p>
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		<title>By: DC Loser</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/marines_say_western_iraq_lost/comment-page-1/#comment-105269</link>
		<dc:creator>DC Loser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Nov 2006 14:27:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/11/marines_say_western_iraq_lost/#comment-105269</guid>
		<description>As a counterpoint to this article, I found Andrew Sullivan linked to this Michael Fumento article about progess in Ramadi.

http://www.fumento.com/military/ramadireturn.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a counterpoint to this article, I found Andrew Sullivan linked to this Michael Fumento article about progess in Ramadi.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.fumento.com/military/ramadireturn.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.fumento.com/military/ramadireturn.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: madmatt</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/marines_say_western_iraq_lost/comment-page-1/#comment-105267</link>
		<dc:creator>madmatt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Nov 2006 14:26:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/11/marines_say_western_iraq_lost/#comment-105267</guid>
		<description>what reason have we given the iraqis to trust anything we say or do...we have caused as much death and mayhem in 3 years as Saddam did in 30...thus our presence does nothing but aggravate the situation....as for the iraqis...they live there so they have plenty of ways of keeping track of what the US is doing, they don&#039;t need to read it in the times...its why our tax dollars go to feeding propaganda to iraq news sources.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>what reason have we given the iraqis to trust anything we say or do...we have caused as much death and mayhem in 3 years as Saddam did in 30...thus our presence does nothing but aggravate the situation....as for the iraqis...they live there so they have plenty of ways of keeping track of what the US is doing, they don't need to read it in the times...its why our tax dollars go to feeding propaganda to iraq news sources.</p>
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