It seems a bit premature to tag this has an upgrade issue . I'm the last one to defend government agency , God knows, the but in fairness I'm forced to say that we have no way of knowing if the upgrade issue was at all involved with the accident happening in the first place and whether or not one of the more recent models of car would have caused last death and injury, once it did happen.

All;

One more point while I have the editor open. The position of the rail cars following the accident doesn't surprise me much it all. I've seen a number of rail accidents over the years being a railfan myself, and a train being rear ended usually results in local mode of ending up sitting on top of the last car or two that's been hit from behind. There was an accident on Toronto's TTC like that several years ago, And one about 100 miles east of me here at Syracuse where an Amtrak locomotive ended up mostly inside a gondola with only minor injuries all around on that occasion.

To solve that problem, freight engines have for about the last decade been sprouting what are called "anti climber devices". Essentially, the device is a thick, heavy, and relatively flat, piece of steel mounted to the frame rails of the locomotive in a horizontal fashion across the front and rear. The object of the device is to keep the front of the locomotive on the ground by forcing this apparatus under the knuckle , which is the part that attaches to the remainder of the train. Without the anti climber, you can be pretty much assured that the power is going up over the top of the last car... being the path of least resistance. With the anti climber, the energy of the collision is forced into a more lateral fashion, generally pushing the offending locomotive to the right or to the left depending.

I am convinced that we will now see some chatter about why anti-climbers aren't being used in a subway environment, given their successes elsewhere. The trouble, of course, is that the hitching arrangement, and in fact most of the subway car design, does not adapt well to this device and would most likely require significant redesign of both the car and the device to work well.

Before someone starts, it's also fairly obvious that in tunnels, there is not whole bunch of space left or right to push anyway , but at least it would have distributed the energy a little more evenly thus possibly saving lives.

What the solution is for all of that I've no idea,sor of a com-plete redesign of all the rail cars on the system... but all I'm saying is the subject's going to come up over the next few weeks.

1: The rear train was in fact equipped with auto train control, and the system was on full auto at the time of the crash.

2: The Mushroom, contrary to some reports, was depressed, though when exactly it had been pressed is at question; Was it pressed prior to impact, or by stuff flying around the cab in the impact itself.

The idea then, of a missed communication, appears to be overridden by these new facts. At least to some degree, the motorman on the trailing train would appear to have done it right, for the most part, or all the way, depending on what you believe about the mushroom and when it was hit.

The only chance to my mind for that not to have been true as if she somehow overrode the automation. The consensus of reporting I'm seeing suggests that the motorman in the second train only had about three months on the job. That being true, she may have had some instantaneous confusion over the controls and hit the wrong one, when the emergency arose. I will not speculate as to the chances of that being true, I merely suggest that the possibility exists, based on the information I have at the moment. Which, as I say, is second hand in nature for the most part.

If it's not true, and the motorman did everything correctly, the resulting CYA festival from the city and the federal government, and the various unions, all of them involved with the Metro, will be running for the next year at least.

Complicating this forensic activity is the lack of a black box in the second train. Without it, we may never know the answer to whether not the motorman attempted to apply the emergency mushroom.

Interestingly, one of the reporters on Fox radio tonight suggested that investigators "do not believe they will find a black box for the second train." You can imagine my ears perked a little at that, since I had already heard by way of my contacts in DC the 1000's do not have them. Perhaps that's just a poor choice of words on Fox's part, or perhaps my contacts were partially in error there, since the Fox wording suggests that it's possible that the earlier models were retrofitted with them...but it does suggest the amount of confusion coming from the reports down there as to the equipment on the 1000 series in particular.

For clarity, let me say that the contacts I have there are railfans, and tend to focus on freight trains for the most part... (Photos, mostly) The subway system is something of a second-line hobby of theirs since they happen live in the DC area. I'm going to owe them a dinner, the next time I'm down that way, I've been hammering them for info like that most of the day... and such info is, you'll admit, pretty vertical in nature... Very few who don't make a living on the system, no these kind of "inside baseball" details. I certainly didn't know most of it.

I wonder if the citizens of Oklahoma get more federal dollars than they pay out and, if so, would the good senator find that unfair...

Technically, its the same principle so using Coburn-Logic^TM they should take a hair cut in federal spending, or get a special Oklahoma income tax surcharge.

Sen. Tom Coburn has been almost singlehandedly blocking a $1.5 billion investment in upgrading the system, arguing that those who directly benefit from the system should pay the cost, not taxpayers in Oklahoma.

I wonder if the citizens of Oklahoma get more federal dollars than they pay out and, if so, would the good senator find that unfair...

PS; is it possible that the ATC wasn't originally supplied in the first build, but supplied in the refirb in 92? That might explain the discrepancy I'm seeing.

The 1000's were delivered in 76. refurned in 92, The next gen, the 2000's del in 82, refruned in 03 and 04. Other series are more recent.

Sorry if I've missed anything guys.. I tried.

As James Ridgeway notes, Sen. Tom Coburn has been almost singlehandedly blocking a $1.5 billion investment in upgrading the system, arguing that those who directly benefit from the system should pay the cost, not taxpayers in Oklahoma. That’s a view that I’m largely sympathetic to.

Except that it is a public good. One could argue that taxpayers in and around DC should pay vs. taxpayers in Oklahoma, but then I guess you could also point out that DC is not a state and is under the federal government...and lots of tourists (probably even ones from Oklahoma) ride the metro and make it far less useful to locals at various times of the year.

And anyone who thinks that a public good, generally, can be run profitably should consider re-reading the definition of a public good.

It would be nice to use them (a) where they pay for themselves, or (b) where citizens want to reduce auto congestion, but it's not that simple is it?

Thirdly, the report I read was that the older cars were in the train that hit the train of newer cars so a tendency to rollback wouldn't have been a factor.

Correct. But what other variables the older fleet brings to the table, if any aside from the lack of a flight recorder, I don't know as yet.