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	<title>Comments on: Middle Class Blues</title>
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		<title>By: Houston</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/middle_class_blues/comment-page-1/#comment-328502</link>
		<dc:creator>Houston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Apr 2008 01:46:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/04/middle_class_blues/#comment-328502</guid>
		<description>Two comments.  First, I wouldn&#039;t trust a survey like this anymore.  Democrats will tell you they&#039;re worse off, no matter what, and Repubs will say the opposite.  Politics has spoiled all of this.

Secondly, according to this report on income mobility, 1995-2006 (http://www.treas.gov/offices/tax-policy/library/incomemobilitystudy03-08revise.pdf)

-- most taxpayers who began in the bottom quintile moved up to a higher income group within 10 years.  (in other words, most of the poorest moved up toward the middle class)

-- 75% of those in the top 0.01% of taxpayers in 1996 were no longer in that category in 2005 (in other words, most of our richest slipped back closer to the pack)

-- median incomes of all taxpayers increased by 24 percent after adjusting for inflation. Actual incomes increased for two-thirds of all taxpayers over this period.   (in other words, most Americans are doing better)

So basically, the idea that “the rich get richer while the poor get poorer” is simply not true.  Nor is the idea that we’re not living as long.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two comments.  First, I wouldn't trust a survey like this anymore.  Democrats will tell you they're worse off, no matter what, and Repubs will say the opposite.  Politics has spoiled all of this.</p>
<p>Secondly, according to this report on income mobility, 1995-2006 (<a href="http://www.treas.gov/offices/tax-policy/library/incomemobilitystudy03-08revise.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.treas.gov/offices/tax-policy/library/incomemobilitystudy03-08revise.pdf</a>)</p>
<p>-- most taxpayers who began in the bottom quintile moved up to a higher income group within 10 years.  (in other words, most of the poorest moved up toward the middle class)</p>
<p>-- 75% of those in the top 0.01% of taxpayers in 1996 were no longer in that category in 2005 (in other words, most of our richest slipped back closer to the pack)</p>
<p>-- median incomes of all taxpayers increased by 24 percent after adjusting for inflation. Actual incomes increased for two-thirds of all taxpayers over this period.   (in other words, most Americans are doing better)</p>
<p>So basically, the idea that “the rich get richer while the poor get poorer” is simply not true.  Nor is the idea that we&rsquo;re not living as long.</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/middle_class_blues/comment-page-1/#comment-328262</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 21:00:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/04/middle_class_blues/#comment-328262</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Sorry James, but you&#039;ve gone out and found data that - in some places - fits your personal viewpoint&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The data are all from the same survey that reported the findings, with the exception of the &quot;misery index&quot; scores, which are from the Statistical Abstract of the U.S. (Census Bureau data, that is).
 
There&#039;s simply no question that middle class Americans are living much more prosperous lives than they were even when I was a kid.  We live in bigger houses, drive more luxurious cars, have more toys, eat out at restaurants more often, have more clothes, etc., etc.   

The difference is that we&#039;re now comparing ourself to even richer people so it seems like we&#039;re falling behind.  In the early 1970s, there were like 6 billionaires on the planet; now, they&#039;re relatively commonplace.

Further, unskilled labor hasn&#039;t fared well in the Information Age.  There aren&#039;t many assembly line jobs anymore and most don&#039;t pay what they did.  And most manual labor jobs have been supplanted by machines.  Heck, outside New Jersey, you can&#039;t even get a job pumping gas anymore.

So, you&#039;ve got a lower class that&#039;s worse off, a middle class that&#039;s much better off but see the rich further off into the distant, and a top 1% that&#039;s off the charts.  But, again, those groupings are dynamic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Sorry James, but you've gone out and found data that - in some places - fits your personal viewpoint</p></blockquote>
<p>The data are all from the same survey that reported the findings, with the exception of the "misery index" scores, which are from the Statistical Abstract of the U.S. (Census Bureau data, that is).</p>
<p>There's simply no question that middle class Americans are living much more prosperous lives than they were even when I was a kid.  We live in bigger houses, drive more luxurious cars, have more toys, eat out at restaurants more often, have more clothes, etc., etc.   </p>
<p>The difference is that we're now comparing ourself to even richer people so it seems like we're falling behind.  In the early 1970s, there were like 6 billionaires on the planet; now, they're relatively commonplace.</p>
<p>Further, unskilled labor hasn't fared well in the Information Age.  There aren't many assembly line jobs anymore and most don't pay what they did.  And most manual labor jobs have been supplanted by machines.  Heck, outside New Jersey, you can't even get a job pumping gas anymore.</p>
<p>So, you've got a lower class that's worse off, a middle class that's much better off but see the rich further off into the distant, and a top 1% that's off the charts.  But, again, those groupings are dynamic.</p>
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		<title>By: glasnost</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/middle_class_blues/comment-page-1/#comment-328259</link>
		<dc:creator>glasnost</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 20:53:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/04/middle_class_blues/#comment-328259</guid>
		<description>Simplistic, shallow analysis, selective presentation. Sorry James, but you&#039;ve gone out and found data that - in some places - fits your personal viewpoint - but you really don&#039;t know what&#039;s going on. 

Here&#039;s a hint: the sense of prosperity or lack thereof has nothing to do with media coverage or presidential demeanor. You could have been able to smell the bullsh*t in those chestnuts before they ever escaped your keyboard.

Perhaps you should read The Great Risk Shift by Jacob Hacker.

Our Paul is on the right track.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Simplistic, shallow analysis, selective presentation. Sorry James, but you've gone out and found data that - in some places - fits your personal viewpoint - but you really don't know what's going on. </p>
<p>Here's a hint: the sense of prosperity or lack thereof has nothing to do with media coverage or presidential demeanor. You could have been able to smell the bullsh*t in those chestnuts before they ever escaped your keyboard.</p>
<p>Perhaps you should read The Great Risk Shift by Jacob Hacker.</p>
<p>Our Paul is on the right track.</p>
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		<title>By: Our Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/middle_class_blues/comment-page-1/#comment-328170</link>
		<dc:creator>Our Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 18:54:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/04/middle_class_blues/#comment-328170</guid>
		<description>Not to be argumentative Mr. Joiner, but a short reply… If you will not accept the thesis that income is not an expression of wealth unless it is it is indexed to “discretionary spending”, perhaps you will consider the concept of income inequality as an index of “Middle Class Blues”. 

Enlightening is a paper by Kopczuk et all (Columbia University and National Bureau of Economic Research) which is in PDF form and can be captured by simple Google search utilizing part of the title “Uncovering the American Dream”

I am not an Economist, but as my Pappy used to say: “Data speaks for itself”. Income inequality is increasing, and the middle class is being squeezed. Those that fail to recognize and offer relief to “Middle Class Blues” will be bruised in the upcoming elections. We all know what colors are commonly found in a bruise…</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not to be argumentative Mr. Joiner, but a short reply… If you will not accept the thesis that income is not an expression of wealth unless it is it is indexed to “discretionary spending”, perhaps you will consider the concept of income inequality as an index of “Middle Class Blues”. </p>
<p>Enlightening is a paper by Kopczuk et all (Columbia University and National Bureau of Economic Research) which is in PDF form and can be captured by simple Google search utilizing part of the title “Uncovering the American Dream”</p>
<p>I am not an Economist, but as my Pappy used to say: “Data speaks for itself”. Income inequality is increasing, and the middle class is being squeezed. Those that fail to recognize and offer relief to “Middle Class Blues” will be bruised in the upcoming elections. We all know what colors are commonly found in a bruise…</p>
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		<title>By: Jeffrey W. Baker</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/middle_class_blues/comment-page-1/#comment-328110</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey W. Baker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 16:42:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/04/middle_class_blues/#comment-328110</guid>
		<description>As Grewgills points out, it is quite inaccurate to compare the misery index today with that of 1980.  Both unemployment and inflation are calculated very differently today.  If you were using the 1980 method of calculating inflation, it would stand today at around 10-12%.  If you used the old means of calculating unemployment, that figure would stand at at least 9%.  Using this comparable method, today&#039;s misery index is well within the 1980 range.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As Grewgills points out, it is quite inaccurate to compare the misery index today with that of 1980.  Both unemployment and inflation are calculated very differently today.  If you were using the 1980 method of calculating inflation, it would stand today at around 10-12%.  If you used the old means of calculating unemployment, that figure would stand at at least 9%.  Using this comparable method, today's misery index is well within the 1980 range.</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/middle_class_blues/comment-page-1/#comment-328066</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 15:54:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/04/middle_class_blues/#comment-328066</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;A small nit: saying that getting married is a &quot;good choice&quot; sounds a but judgmental to my ears. I assume you just mean that statistically married people earn more or something?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Well, it is a judgment.  Being married is almost always a smart economic choice, unless you&#039;re Paul McCartney.  And I say that as someone who married late to a woman who married late, both for the first time, and both of whom were relatively successful beforehand.  

&lt;blockquote&gt;You cannot fudge the fact that for many income available for discretionary spending has steadily decreased. Good by to the weekly trip to the movie house, good by to the splurge at the restaurant, and good by to that long drive to the “free” beach.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I&#039;m sure there are &quot;many&quot; for whom that is true. It&#039;s also true that, on aggregate, people are going to the movies, eating at restaurants, and going on weekend trips more often than in the past.  This is especially true of restaurant eating which, thirty years ago, was a luxury and is now something most people do without thinking.  And we&#039;d be going to the movies even more if it weren&#039;t for our large screen TVs and DVD players.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>A small nit: saying that getting married is a "good choice" sounds a but judgmental to my ears. I assume you just mean that statistically married people earn more or something?</p></blockquote>
<p>Well, it is a judgment.  Being married is almost always a smart economic choice, unless you're Paul McCartney.  And I say that as someone who married late to a woman who married late, both for the first time, and both of whom were relatively successful beforehand.  </p>
<blockquote><p>You cannot fudge the fact that for many income available for discretionary spending has steadily decreased. Good by to the weekly trip to the movie house, good by to the splurge at the restaurant, and good by to that long drive to the “free” beach.</p></blockquote>
<p>I'm sure there are "many" for whom that is true. It's also true that, on aggregate, people are going to the movies, eating at restaurants, and going on weekend trips more often than in the past.  This is especially true of restaurant eating which, thirty years ago, was a luxury and is now something most people do without thinking.  And we'd be going to the movies even more if it weren't for our large screen TVs and DVD players.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick T. McGuire</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/middle_class_blues/comment-page-1/#comment-328020</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick T. McGuire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 15:24:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/04/middle_class_blues/#comment-328020</guid>
		<description>I am definitely middle-class (barely) and I am much better off today than I was at anytime in the past 10 years. Having said that, my growth in income has slowed over the past few years while my bills have increased at a faster rate so it seems that things are getting worse. But on reflection, the increase in my bills are largely due to choices I have made while I have declined offers of higher earnings, all designed to provide the life style I want.

I am willing to bet that those who said they are worse off now than 5 years ago are probably comparing where they expected to be today as opposed to where they actually are compared to five years ago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am definitely middle-class (barely) and I am much better off today than I was at anytime in the past 10 years. Having said that, my growth in income has slowed over the past few years while my bills have increased at a faster rate so it seems that things are getting worse. But on reflection, the increase in my bills are largely due to choices I have made while I have declined offers of higher earnings, all designed to provide the life style I want.</p>
<p>I am willing to bet that those who said they are worse off now than 5 years ago are probably comparing where they expected to be today as opposed to where they actually are compared to five years ago.</p>
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		<title>By: Grewgills</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/middle_class_blues/comment-page-1/#comment-327995</link>
		<dc:creator>Grewgills</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 14:53:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/04/middle_class_blues/#comment-327995</guid>
		<description>When your bills increase faster than your salary you are likely to say that you are worse off than you were five years ago.  If your largest investment (your home) has lost considerable value simultaneously you are even more likely to say you are worse off.

BTW the unemployment rate is calculated differently now than it was in 1980.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When your bills increase faster than your salary you are likely to say that you are worse off than you were five years ago.  If your largest investment (your home) has lost considerable value simultaneously you are even more likely to say you are worse off.</p>
<p>BTW the unemployment rate is calculated differently now than it was in 1980.</p>
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		<title>By: Our Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/middle_class_blues/comment-page-1/#comment-327989</link>
		<dc:creator>Our Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 14:43:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/04/middle_class_blues/#comment-327989</guid>
		<description>Nice exposition on the data from the Pew survey. Unfortunately, only the “income” side of the “Middle Class Blues” is presented. Two data points are missing: Incurred debt and its “service” and fixed expenses (housing, food, health insurance, etc.). If you add these latter two, and subtract them from income you get income available for discretional spending. 

You do not have to be an economist to understand that income available for discretionary spending is a true measure of “wealth”.

Two indices point to the malaise that afflicts our society: The rise of middle class debt service, and the rise in health insurance costs. Both have increased at a faster rate then earned income. Both can be measured by the disasters they cause: a rise in individual bankruptcy proceedings, and a rise in the number of families without health insurance. 

You are quite right in you’re your last sentence in this post: &lt;i&gt;”But ignorance and irrationality doesn’t change the underlying facts.”&lt;/i&gt;You cannot fudge the fact that for many income available for discretionary spending has steadily decreased. Good by to the weekly trip to the movie house, good by to the splurge at the restaurant, and good by to that long drive to the “free” beach… It is called the Middle Class Blues.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice exposition on the data from the Pew survey. Unfortunately, only the “income” side of the “Middle Class Blues” is presented. Two data points are missing: Incurred debt and its “service” and fixed expenses (housing, food, health insurance, etc.). If you add these latter two, and subtract them from income you get income available for discretional spending. </p>
<p>You do not have to be an economist to understand that income available for discretionary spending is a true measure of “wealth”.</p>
<p>Two indices point to the malaise that afflicts our society: The rise of middle class debt service, and the rise in health insurance costs. Both have increased at a faster rate then earned income. Both can be measured by the disasters they cause: a rise in individual bankruptcy proceedings, and a rise in the number of families without health insurance. </p>
<p>You are quite right in you&rsquo;re your last sentence in this post: <i>”But ignorance and irrationality doesn&rsquo;t change the underlying facts.”</i>You cannot fudge the fact that for many income available for discretionary spending has steadily decreased. Good by to the weekly trip to the movie house, good by to the splurge at the restaurant, and good by to that long drive to the “free” beach… It is called the Middle Class Blues.</p>
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		<title>By: MarkT</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/middle_class_blues/comment-page-1/#comment-327983</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 14:37:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/04/middle_class_blues/#comment-327983</guid>
		<description>A small nit: saying that getting married is a &quot;good choice&quot; sounds a but judgmental to my ears. I assume you just mean that statistically married people earn more or something? Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A small nit: saying that getting married is a "good choice" sounds a but judgmental to my ears. I assume you just mean that statistically married people earn more or something? Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Schuler</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/middle_class_blues/comment-page-1/#comment-327970</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Schuler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 14:26:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/04/middle_class_blues/#comment-327970</guid>
		<description>Another interesting measure is comparing today&#039;s stats to those of 1996.  The unemployment rate, number of discouraged, and so on are all quite similar.  In 1996 an optimistic attitude prevailed; in 2008 the opposite.

I think the difference in attitude reflects a number of factors:  1) George Bush is a simply awful spokesman for the economy (or much of anything else); Bill Clinton was a good one; 2) the general tone of the news these days is pretty downbeat (realistically so); 3) the gap between the to .1% and everybody else is pretty darned high; 4) the total amount of wealth controlled by that top .1% is pretty darned high, too.

Those last two don&#039;t reflect envy on my part (I honestly don&#039;t give a damn) just reality.  I do think that the gap between the very rich and everybody else is damaging socially and  politically.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another interesting measure is comparing today's stats to those of 1996.  The unemployment rate, number of discouraged, and so on are all quite similar.  In 1996 an optimistic attitude prevailed; in 2008 the opposite.</p>
<p>I think the difference in attitude reflects a number of factors:  1) George Bush is a simply awful spokesman for the economy (or much of anything else); Bill Clinton was a good one; 2) the general tone of the news these days is pretty downbeat (realistically so); 3) the gap between the to .1% and everybody else is pretty darned high; 4) the total amount of wealth controlled by that top .1% is pretty darned high, too.</p>
<p>Those last two don't reflect envy on my part (I honestly don't give a damn) just reality.  I do think that the gap between the very rich and everybody else is damaging socially and  politically.</p>
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