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	<title>Comments on: Milk Scandal Continues in China</title>
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		<title>By: There&#8217;s No Substitute for Inspections</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/milk_scandal_continues_in_china/comment-page-1/#comment-514560</link>
		<dc:creator>There&#8217;s No Substitute for Inspections</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 13:32:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] milk scandal in China about which I posted over the weekend and in which four children have been killed and at least 53,000 sickened through consuming milk [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] milk scandal in China about which I posted over the weekend and in which four children have been killed and at least 53,000 sickened through consuming milk [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jeffrey W. Baker</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/milk_scandal_continues_in_china/comment-page-1/#comment-514035</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey W. Baker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Sep 2008 19:14:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>So, why do we have free trade with China?  Why do we grant them &quot;most-favored nation&quot; trade status?  We should be slapping the biggest tariffs in history on Chinese imports, to compensate for their complete lack of safety, environment, and labor regulation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, why do we have free trade with China?  Why do we grant them "most-favored nation" trade status?  We should be slapping the biggest tariffs in history on Chinese imports, to compensate for their complete lack of safety, environment, and labor regulation.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Schuler</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/milk_scandal_continues_in_china/comment-page-1/#comment-514025</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Schuler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Sep 2008 16:08:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thanks, Matthew.  I suspect that my perspective is different than most since, in the mists of the distant past, I spent some little time studying Chinese language, history, and culture.    Consequently, I have a little insight into the situation but I&#039;m not overly rosy about it, either.
&lt;blockquote&gt;
petty officials who are little removed from the warlords of the early 20th century
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Yeah, that&#039;s what I was characterizing, imperfectly, as &#147;feudalism&#148;.  The upward mobility issue is an interesting one since that&#039;s been a feature of the Chinese system for a very long time and one that most Westerners are peripherally aware of at best.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Matthew.  I suspect that my perspective is different than most since, in the mists of the distant past, I spent some little time studying Chinese language, history, and culture.    Consequently, I have a little insight into the situation but I'm not overly rosy about it, either.</p>
<blockquote><p>
petty officials who are little removed from the warlords of the early 20th century
</p></blockquote>
<p>Yeah, that's what I was characterizing, imperfectly, as &#8220;feudalism&#8221;.  The upward mobility issue is an interesting one since that's been a feature of the Chinese system for a very long time and one that most Westerners are peripherally aware of at best.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Stinson</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/milk_scandal_continues_in_china/comment-page-1/#comment-514020</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Stinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Sep 2008 15:42:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=25236#comment-514020</guid>
		<description>Dave, good post. It boggles the mind how little coverage this gets back home.  Seems like the only thing bloggers care about are the &quot;China threat&quot; angles -- China as a military threat or China as an economic threat.

By now, though, it seems all but certain that the melamine was added to make up for the fact that most Chinese milk is heavily cut with water to increase profit.  This is pretty common; most Chinese milk is watery and lacks the cream and fat of American or European milk.  From what we&#039;ve seen so far, &quot;contamination&quot; in Sanlu&#039;s stocks seems too thorough to be anything but deliberate. The jury&#039;s still out on Mengniu and Yili, the other big companies pinpointed in the probe.

In the comments, Dave and DC Loser I&#039;d say you&#039;re both partly wrong.  China is neither laissez-faire nor is it feudal.

Laissez-faire, as an ideal type, requires a strongly developed sense of trust and rule of law, it cannot exist in &lt;em&gt;omnia bellum contra omnes&lt;/em&gt; conditions like those in most of China.  Likewise, it&#039;s not a true feudal situation, as the economic actors in question are independent rather than subservient, plus there is upward mobility for anyone who can scam enough or bribe enough to get there. What we&#039;re looking at instead is a kind of gangster capitalism practiced in the periphery and among the underclass, aided and abetted by petty officials who are little removed from the warlords of the early 20th century.

Trust in China, or the lack thereof, remains the great obstacle to steady development.  If you only trust your family (and this is the bottom line for Chinese), you expect others to exploit you, so in this situation you jump ahead of the pack to exploit before you&#039;re exploited.  That&#039;s what the farmers were doing when they sold watered-down, melamine-filled milk to dairy companies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave, good post. It boggles the mind how little coverage this gets back home.  Seems like the only thing bloggers care about are the "China threat" angles -- China as a military threat or China as an economic threat.</p>
<p>By now, though, it seems all but certain that the melamine was added to make up for the fact that most Chinese milk is heavily cut with water to increase profit.  This is pretty common; most Chinese milk is watery and lacks the cream and fat of American or European milk.  From what we've seen so far, "contamination" in Sanlu's stocks seems too thorough to be anything but deliberate. The jury's still out on Mengniu and Yili, the other big companies pinpointed in the probe.</p>
<p>In the comments, Dave and DC Loser I'd say you're both partly wrong.  China is neither laissez-faire nor is it feudal.</p>
<p>Laissez-faire, as an ideal type, requires a strongly developed sense of trust and rule of law, it cannot exist in <em>omnia bellum contra omnes</em> conditions like those in most of China.  Likewise, it's not a true feudal situation, as the economic actors in question are independent rather than subservient, plus there is upward mobility for anyone who can scam enough or bribe enough to get there. What we're looking at instead is a kind of gangster capitalism practiced in the periphery and among the underclass, aided and abetted by petty officials who are little removed from the warlords of the early 20th century.</p>
<p>Trust in China, or the lack thereof, remains the great obstacle to steady development.  If you only trust your family (and this is the bottom line for Chinese), you expect others to exploit you, so in this situation you jump ahead of the pack to exploit before you're exploited.  That's what the farmers were doing when they sold watered-down, melamine-filled milk to dairy companies.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Schuler</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/milk_scandal_continues_in_china/comment-page-1/#comment-514018</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Schuler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Sep 2008 15:15:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I think &#147;feudalism&#148; is a better description than &#147;laissez-faire capitalism&#148; but I don&#039;t disagree with the thrust of your comment.  The problem is that local officials requiring a cut of the take and, consequently, being willing to turn a blind eye to infractions &lt;b&gt;is the system&lt;/b&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think &#8220;feudalism&#8221; is a better description than &#8220;laissez-faire capitalism&#8221; but I don't disagree with the thrust of your comment.  The problem is that local officials requiring a cut of the take and, consequently, being willing to turn a blind eye to infractions <b>is the system</b>.</p>
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		<title>By: DC Loser</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/milk_scandal_continues_in_china/comment-page-1/#comment-514017</link>
		<dc:creator>DC Loser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Sep 2008 15:01:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>This problem is emblematic of the free for all laissez-faire capitalism that is practiced in China.  It is crony capitalism where the government turns a blind eye to malfeasance and officials are in collusion with companies that violate the laws.  Add to that almost non-existent laws or regulations and no government enforcement of what little laws there are and no accountability to the public, this is what you get.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This problem is emblematic of the free for all laissez-faire capitalism that is practiced in China.  It is crony capitalism where the government turns a blind eye to malfeasance and officials are in collusion with companies that violate the laws.  Add to that almost non-existent laws or regulations and no government enforcement of what little laws there are and no accountability to the public, this is what you get.</p>
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		<title>By: The Glittering Eye &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Why Doesn&#8217;t the Milk Scandal in China Get More Attention Here?</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/milk_scandal_continues_in_china/comment-page-1/#comment-514016</link>
		<dc:creator>The Glittering Eye &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Why Doesn&#8217;t the Milk Scandal in China Get More Attention Here?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Sep 2008 14:55:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=25236#comment-514016</guid>
		<description>[...] I&#8217;ve posted on the unfolding scandal of contaminated milk and milk products in China over at Outside the Beltway. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I&#8217;ve posted on the unfolding scandal of contaminated milk and milk products in China over at Outside the Beltway. [...]</p>
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