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	<title>Comments on: Millionaire Penalty Struck Down by Supreme Court</title>
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		<title>By: Bithead</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/millionaire-penalty-struck-down-by-supreme-court/comment-page-1/#comment-431332</link>
		<dc:creator>Bithead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 19:31:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/06/millionaire-penalty-struck-down-by-supreme-court/#comment-431332</guid>
		<description>A bit of a stretch.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A bit of a stretch.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/millionaire-penalty-struck-down-by-supreme-court/comment-page-1/#comment-431305</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 19:07:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/06/millionaire-penalty-struck-down-by-supreme-court/#comment-431305</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;In &#039;94 (and &#039;76) incumbents will have lost en masse to opponents because of the nationally publicised woes of their parties, not because the opponents of incumbents locally were particulary adept at campaigning on a shoe-string. In these election years local campaigning was irrelevant. In ordinary circumstances things are still much, much easier for the well-funded, incumbents or recognisable names.

and the more recent Democrat takeover was all on issues? Comon&#039;...

Posted by Bithead &#124; June 27, 2008 &#124; 12:09 pm &#124; Permalink &lt;/blockquote&gt;
 
In 2006, like 1994 and like 1976, the incumbent party was politically unpopular for reasons more national than local, and the fact that less-well funded or less-well known local Democratic candidates beat incumbent Republicans didn&#039;t prove that incumbency and money aren&#039;t ordinarily advantageous, just that in *some* years the wind is behind a particular party and the local candidate can get away with having less money and less campaigning on the ground, or with running less commercials - but this is the exception rather than the rule.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>In '94 (and '76) incumbents will have lost en masse to opponents because of the nationally publicised woes of their parties, not because the opponents of incumbents locally were particulary adept at campaigning on a shoe-string. In these election years local campaigning was irrelevant. In ordinary circumstances things are still much, much easier for the well-funded, incumbents or recognisable names.</p>
<p>and the more recent Democrat takeover was all on issues? Comon'...</p>
<p>Posted by Bithead | June 27, 2008 | 12:09 pm | Permalink </p></blockquote>
<p>In 2006, like 1994 and like 1976, the incumbent party was politically unpopular for reasons more national than local, and the fact that less-well funded or less-well known local Democratic candidates beat incumbent Republicans didn't prove that incumbency and money aren't ordinarily advantageous, just that in *some* years the wind is behind a particular party and the local candidate can get away with having less money and less campaigning on the ground, or with running less commercials - but this is the exception rather than the rule.</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/millionaire-penalty-struck-down-by-supreme-court/comment-page-1/#comment-431283</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:40:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/06/millionaire-penalty-struck-down-by-supreme-court/#comment-431283</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Ok, but isn&#039;t public policy more properly under the purview of the legislative and executive branches?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Indeed.  Then again, if money equals political speech in this process, I&#039;d argue that most of McCain-Feingold, not just a handful of peripheral provisions, are plainly unconstitutional.  That, post-1803, is the Court&#039;s purview.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Ok, but isn't public policy more properly under the purview of the legislative and executive branches?</p></blockquote>
<p>Indeed.  Then again, if money equals political speech in this process, I'd argue that most of McCain-Feingold, not just a handful of peripheral provisions, are plainly unconstitutional.  That, post-1803, is the Court's purview.</p>
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		<title>By: charles austin</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/millionaire-penalty-struck-down-by-supreme-court/comment-page-1/#comment-431266</link>
		<dc:creator>charles austin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:18:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/06/millionaire-penalty-struck-down-by-supreme-court/#comment-431266</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;While I firmly agree with the outcome and the reasoning of the majority, Stevens actually has the better public policy argument. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Ok, but isn&#039;t public policy more properly under the purview of the legislative and executive branches?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>While I firmly agree with the outcome and the reasoning of the majority, Stevens actually has the better public policy argument. </p></blockquote>
<p>Ok, but isn't public policy more properly under the purview of the legislative and executive branches?</p>
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		<title>By: Bithead</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/millionaire-penalty-struck-down-by-supreme-court/comment-page-1/#comment-431164</link>
		<dc:creator>Bithead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 16:09:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/06/millionaire-penalty-struck-down-by-supreme-court/#comment-431164</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;In &#039;94 (and &#039;76) incumbents will have lost en masse to opponents because of the nationally publicised woes of their parties, not because the opponents of incumbents locally were particulary adept at campaigning on a shoe-string. In these election years local campaigning was irrelevant. In ordinary circumstances things are still much, much easier for the well-funded, incumbents or recognisable names.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

and the more recent Democrat takeover was all on issues? Comon&#039;...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>In '94 (and '76) incumbents will have lost en masse to opponents because of the nationally publicised woes of their parties, not because the opponents of incumbents locally were particulary adept at campaigning on a shoe-string. In these election years local campaigning was irrelevant. In ordinary circumstances things are still much, much easier for the well-funded, incumbents or recognisable names.</p></blockquote>
<p>and the more recent Democrat takeover was all on issues? Comon'...</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/millionaire-penalty-struck-down-by-supreme-court/comment-page-1/#comment-431150</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 15:56:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/06/millionaire-penalty-struck-down-by-supreme-court/#comment-431150</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;  Effectively, by the way, that&#039;s a recipe for ensuring that incumbents and others with powerful name recognition (celebrities, mostly) win without a fight.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Can we point to situations where incumbants have been tossed out without such &#039;equality&#039;? I daresay the 94 mid-terms answer that one. That being the case, perhaps you mis-identify the issue.
Posted by Bithead &#124; June 27, 2008 &#124; 11:16 am &#124; Permalink 

In &#039;94 (and &#039;76) incumbents will have lost en masse to opponents because of the nationally publicised woes of their parties, not because the opponents of incumbents locally were particulary adept at campaigning on a shoe-string. In these election years local campaigning was irrelevant. In ordinary circumstances things are still much, much easier for the well-funded, incumbents or recognisable names.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>  Effectively, by the way, that's a recipe for ensuring that incumbents and others with powerful name recognition (celebrities, mostly) win without a fight.</p></blockquote>
<p>Can we point to situations where incumbants have been tossed out without such 'equality'? I daresay the 94 mid-terms answer that one. That being the case, perhaps you mis-identify the issue.<br />
Posted by Bithead | June 27, 2008 | 11:16 am | Permalink </p>
<p>In '94 (and '76) incumbents will have lost en masse to opponents because of the nationally publicised woes of their parties, not because the opponents of incumbents locally were particulary adept at campaigning on a shoe-string. In these election years local campaigning was irrelevant. In ordinary circumstances things are still much, much easier for the well-funded, incumbents or recognisable names.</p>
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		<title>By: Bithead</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/millionaire-penalty-struck-down-by-supreme-court/comment-page-1/#comment-431104</link>
		<dc:creator>Bithead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 15:16:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/06/millionaire-penalty-struck-down-by-supreme-court/#comment-431104</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Effectively, by the way, that&#039;s a recipe for ensuring that incumbents and others with powerful name recognition (celebrities, mostly) win without a fight.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Can we point to situations where incumbants have been tossed out without such &#039;equality&#039;? I daresay the 94 mid-terms answer that one. That being the case, perhaps you mis-identify the issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Effectively, by the way, that's a recipe for ensuring that incumbents and others with powerful name recognition (celebrities, mostly) win without a fight.</p></blockquote>
<p>Can we point to situations where incumbants have been tossed out without such 'equality'? I daresay the 94 mid-terms answer that one. That being the case, perhaps you mis-identify the issue.</p>
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		<title>By: Bithead</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/millionaire-penalty-struck-down-by-supreme-court/comment-page-1/#comment-431060</link>
		<dc:creator>Bithead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 14:43:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/06/millionaire-penalty-struck-down-by-supreme-court/#comment-431060</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;the future of McCain Feingold may be grim.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

As it should be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>the future of McCain Feingold may be grim.</p></blockquote>
<p>As it should be.</p>
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		<title>By: PD Shaw</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/millionaire-penalty-struck-down-by-supreme-court/comment-page-1/#comment-431056</link>
		<dc:creator>PD Shaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 14:27:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/06/millionaire-penalty-struck-down-by-supreme-court/#comment-431056</guid>
		<description>The McConnell decision rejected a facial challenge to McCain Feingold, it left the door open for piecemeal challenges to the law as it is applied.  And particularly with Alito replacing O&#039;Connor, I think the pieces are getting chipped away.

If McCain gets to appoint a Justice, the future of McCain Feingold may be grim.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The McConnell decision rejected a facial challenge to McCain Feingold, it left the door open for piecemeal challenges to the law as it is applied.  And particularly with Alito replacing O'Connor, I think the pieces are getting chipped away.</p>
<p>If McCain gets to appoint a Justice, the future of McCain Feingold may be grim.</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/millionaire-penalty-struck-down-by-supreme-court/comment-page-1/#comment-431053</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 14:22:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/06/millionaire-penalty-struck-down-by-supreme-court/#comment-431053</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Money does not purchase speech, money buys an audience. The constitution protects speech content, it does not guarantee an audience. What the money = speech doctrine does is create, out of whole cloth, the right to an audience for your speech.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Well...no.  That&#039;s like saying you&#039;ve got a right to voice your opinions about government if you do it inside your house but that you don&#039;t have any right to do so in the public square.  Clearly, that&#039;s not the case, even though time, place, and manner restrictions can apply.

If you can&#039;t spend money to air commercials, you are effectively silenced in terms of national discourse. Otherwise, you&#039;re relying on the mercies of the broadcasters for free time.

Effectively, by the way, that&#039;s a recipe for ensuring that incumbents and others with powerful name recognition (celebrities, mostly) win without a fight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Money does not purchase speech, money buys an audience. The constitution protects speech content, it does not guarantee an audience. What the money = speech doctrine does is create, out of whole cloth, the right to an audience for your speech.</p></blockquote>
<p>Well...no.  That's like saying you've got a right to voice your opinions about government if you do it inside your house but that you don't have any right to do so in the public square.  Clearly, that's not the case, even though time, place, and manner restrictions can apply.</p>
<p>If you can't spend money to air commercials, you are effectively silenced in terms of national discourse. Otherwise, you're relying on the mercies of the broadcasters for free time.</p>
<p>Effectively, by the way, that's a recipe for ensuring that incumbents and others with powerful name recognition (celebrities, mostly) win without a fight.</p>
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		<title>By: Bithead</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/millionaire-penalty-struck-down-by-supreme-court/comment-page-1/#comment-431042</link>
		<dc:creator>Bithead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 14:04:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/06/millionaire-penalty-struck-down-by-supreme-court/#comment-431042</guid>
		<description>Well, Rick, I have to say that I wonder if the added money would have made much difference in Davis&#039; attempts. I live right smack in the middle of that one. consider the weight of those votes.. someone who comes off as being far to liberal for residents of NY state.

Be that as it may, I&#039;m going to keep this one in my permalink list for when arguments about the &#039;fairness doctrine&#039; come up, as I suspect they will. Seems to me the point surrounding the lack of a guranteed audience in the first amendment will play heavily there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, Rick, I have to say that I wonder if the added money would have made much difference in Davis' attempts. I live right smack in the middle of that one. consider the weight of those votes.. someone who comes off as being far to liberal for residents of NY state.</p>
<p>Be that as it may, I'm going to keep this one in my permalink list for when arguments about the 'fairness doctrine' come up, as I suspect they will. Seems to me the point surrounding the lack of a guranteed audience in the first amendment will play heavily there.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick DeMent</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/millionaire-penalty-struck-down-by-supreme-court/comment-page-1/#comment-431026</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick DeMent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 13:39:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/06/millionaire-penalty-struck-down-by-supreme-court/#comment-431026</guid>
		<description>God,I&#039;m agreeing with Bithead ...check the temp in hell :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>God,I'm agreeing with Bithead ...check the temp in hell :)</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/millionaire-penalty-struck-down-by-supreme-court/comment-page-1/#comment-431024</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 13:38:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/06/millionaire-penalty-struck-down-by-supreme-court/#comment-431024</guid>
		<description>The assumption here is that the more a candidate appears on TV, radio and billboards, the more &#039;voice&#039; they have, and the more they are exercising free speech. Although McCain-Feingold looks to use money to level the playing field, in reality I&#039;m not sure upping the personal donation allowances that can be made to candidates up against a millionaire tycoon really makes that much difference to the candidates, or to how much their &#039;voices&#039; are heard by voters.

If McCain-Feingold (and, for different reasons, SCOTUS) are going to equate amount of time spent present in the media with amount of free speech exercised, maybe having TV stations set an advertising quota for each candidate or something something similar would make more sense than complex campaign finance regulation re-jigging. Also, guaranteeing non-self financed candidates a certain amount of media space may to some extent dull the need to seek funding from lobbies or corporations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The assumption here is that the more a candidate appears on TV, radio and billboards, the more 'voice' they have, and the more they are exercising free speech. Although McCain-Feingold looks to use money to level the playing field, in reality I'm not sure upping the personal donation allowances that can be made to candidates up against a millionaire tycoon really makes that much difference to the candidates, or to how much their 'voices' are heard by voters.</p>
<p>If McCain-Feingold (and, for different reasons, SCOTUS) are going to equate amount of time spent present in the media with amount of free speech exercised, maybe having TV stations set an advertising quota for each candidate or something something similar would make more sense than complex campaign finance regulation re-jigging. Also, guaranteeing non-self financed candidates a certain amount of media space may to some extent dull the need to seek funding from lobbies or corporations.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick DeMent</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/millionaire-penalty-struck-down-by-supreme-court/comment-page-1/#comment-431022</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick DeMent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 13:38:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/06/millionaire-penalty-struck-down-by-supreme-court/#comment-431022</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The Court here continues a long line of opinions which proclaim that, in political campaigns, the ability to spend money to buy television advertising is tantamount to speech.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

which is complete and utter nonsense. Money does not purchase speech, money buys an audience. The constitution protects speech content, it does not guarantee an audience. What the money = speech doctrine does is create, out of whole cloth, the right to an audience for your speech. If the supreme court is saying that they have excavated a new right under the 9th they should say so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The Court here continues a long line of opinions which proclaim that, in political campaigns, the ability to spend money to buy television advertising is tantamount to speech.</p></blockquote>
<p>which is complete and utter nonsense. Money does not purchase speech, money buys an audience. The constitution protects speech content, it does not guarantee an audience. What the money = speech doctrine does is create, out of whole cloth, the right to an audience for your speech. If the supreme court is saying that they have excavated a new right under the 9th they should say so.</p>
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		<title>By: Bithead</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/millionaire-penalty-struck-down-by-supreme-court/comment-page-1/#comment-430945</link>
		<dc:creator>Bithead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 12:10:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/06/millionaire-penalty-struck-down-by-supreme-court/#comment-430945</guid>
		<description>Jack Davis tried to buy himself an audience. McCain-Finegold (it&#039;s philosophy...and this particular extension of that mess) prevented him from doing that, again on the idea of &#039;fairness&#039;.  

What this boils down to is that while the first amendment does uphold the right of free speech, it does not gurantee an an audience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jack Davis tried to buy himself an audience. McCain-Finegold (it's philosophy...and this particular extension of that mess) prevented him from doing that, again on the idea of 'fairness'.  </p>
<p>What this boils down to is that while the first amendment does uphold the right of free speech, it does not gurantee an an audience.</p>
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