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	<title>Comments on: Most Influential American Conservatives</title>
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		<title>By: Philadelphia Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/most_influential_american_conservatives/comment-page-1/#comment-217087</link>
		<dc:creator>Philadelphia Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Nov 2007 18:08:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/11/most_influential_american_conservatives/#comment-217087</guid>
		<description>Your description of &quot;what happened&quot; to Conservatives is, I beleive, correct in so far as it goes.  However I disagree with your assertion that Conservatives &quot;were fooled&quot; in 2004.

By 2004 we had No Child Left Behind and the Prescription Drug Entitlement programs already passed.  As a card-carrying Liberal, I agreed with most of those programs except for the modern-day Conservative addition to them, being that: 

&quot;No program is to be paid for directly.  Everything is to be put o the credit card for others to pay.&quot;

However Conservatives (Neo- and otherwise) do worship power, and the money that comes with power.  Therfore I beleive that Conservatives knowlingly voted for George W. Bush and Republicans in Congress in order to retain power among their preferred political party (The Republicans).  And that is what President Bush and the Republican Congress delivered:  Power to their cronies and money to their special interests.

That is what I fully expect to see in 2008:  Conservatives everywhere will decide that they want the power and money that control of Congress and the White House brought to them once (no matter what the cost to their contry), and will vote unanimously Republican in the 2008 elections.

The chorouses of &quot;we were fooled again&quot; will be sung reliably in 2009.

Tht is as guaranteed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your description of "what happened" to Conservatives is, I beleive, correct in so far as it goes.  However I disagree with your assertion that Conservatives "were fooled" in 2004.</p>
<p>By 2004 we had No Child Left Behind and the Prescription Drug Entitlement programs already passed.  As a card-carrying Liberal, I agreed with most of those programs except for the modern-day Conservative addition to them, being that: </p>
<p>"No program is to be paid for directly.  Everything is to be put o the credit card for others to pay."</p>
<p>However Conservatives (Neo- and otherwise) do worship power, and the money that comes with power.  Therfore I beleive that Conservatives knowlingly voted for George W. Bush and Republicans in Congress in order to retain power among their preferred political party (The Republicans).  And that is what President Bush and the Republican Congress delivered:  Power to their cronies and money to their special interests.</p>
<p>That is what I fully expect to see in 2008:  Conservatives everywhere will decide that they want the power and money that control of Congress and the White House brought to them once (no matter what the cost to their contry), and will vote unanimously Republican in the 2008 elections.</p>
<p>The chorouses of "we were fooled again" will be sung reliably in 2009.</p>
<p>Tht is as guaranteed.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/most_influential_american_conservatives/comment-page-1/#comment-217078</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Nov 2007 17:37:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/11/most_influential_american_conservatives/#comment-217078</guid>
		<description>Steve, I see what you&#039;re saying about the conservatives turning into neoconservatives. However, as I said before, in so changing, the conservatives became very unconservative in their philosophy, doing a 180 degree reversal from a good century of conservative ideology. Just because they were once called conservative doesn&#039;t mean they should be called that any longer. Do you call a butterfly a caterpillar?

This distinction is important, as it&#039;s crucial for people to understand that the GOP is no longer conservative. Therefore, &quot;true conservatives&quot; (none of whom voted for Bush in 2004, unless they were profoundly misinformed, which, unfortunately, is what happened) need to know that they need to funnel their support elsewhere if they want to advance their ideology. I think most conservatives got so wrapped up in the &quot;us-vs-them&quot; mentality of the blue dress Gingrich days, that they unquestioningly hitched their wagons to anything the GOP did or said, without distinction. Now they&#039;re stuck supporting woefully unqualified politicians and the American Taliban. I think many American conservatives are looking for a way out of this cul-de-sac.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve, I see what you're saying about the conservatives turning into neoconservatives. However, as I said before, in so changing, the conservatives became very unconservative in their philosophy, doing a 180 degree reversal from a good century of conservative ideology. Just because they were once called conservative doesn't mean they should be called that any longer. Do you call a butterfly a caterpillar?</p>
<p>This distinction is important, as it's crucial for people to understand that the GOP is no longer conservative. Therefore, "true conservatives" (none of whom voted for Bush in 2004, unless they were profoundly misinformed, which, unfortunately, is what happened) need to know that they need to funnel their support elsewhere if they want to advance their ideology. I think most conservatives got so wrapped up in the "us-vs-them" mentality of the blue dress Gingrich days, that they unquestioningly hitched their wagons to anything the GOP did or said, without distinction. Now they're stuck supporting woefully unqualified politicians and the American Taliban. I think many American conservatives are looking for a way out of this cul-de-sac.</p>
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		<title>By: Philadelphia Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/most_influential_american_conservatives/comment-page-1/#comment-217017</link>
		<dc:creator>Philadelphia Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Nov 2007 14:55:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/11/most_influential_american_conservatives/#comment-217017</guid>
		<description>Re: &quot;I find it sad that on this list, there are no conservatives.&quot;

I disagree.

Conservatives has changed to be what we see from NeoConservatives now.  They control the Republicanparty and everything on the &quot;Conservative&quot; agenda.

There are no &quot;Barry Goldwater&quot; Conservatives left in charge of the &quot;Conservative&quot; (Republican) Party inthe US.  And they will never come back.  So, please stop pretending the George W. Bush and his cronies are &quot;not Conservbative&quot;.  They are because that is what Conservatism has become and there is not one single &quot;True Conservative&quot; who did not vote loyally for President Bush in 2004.  And there is not one sinlge &quot;true Conservative&quot; who will not loyally vote for whomever the Republican Party nominates for office, no matter what candidate gets the nod.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: "I find it sad that on this list, there are no conservatives."</p>
<p>I disagree.</p>
<p>Conservatives has changed to be what we see from NeoConservatives now.  They control the Republicanparty and everything on the "Conservative" agenda.</p>
<p>There are no "Barry Goldwater" Conservatives left in charge of the "Conservative" (Republican) Party inthe US.  And they will never come back.  So, please stop pretending the George W. Bush and his cronies are "not Conservbative".  They are because that is what Conservatism has become and there is not one single "True Conservative" who did not vote loyally for President Bush in 2004.  And there is not one sinlge "true Conservative" who will not loyally vote for whomever the Republican Party nominates for office, no matter what candidate gets the nod.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew J. Stinson</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/most_influential_american_conservatives/comment-page-1/#comment-214161</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew J. Stinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Nov 2007 15:45:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/11/most_influential_american_conservatives/#comment-214161</guid>
		<description>Schwarzenegger is not on that list, he&#039;s on the most influential liberals list, along with, uh, Colin Powell.  The Telegraph folks are wacky.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Schwarzenegger is not on that list, he's on the most influential liberals list, along with, uh, Colin Powell.  The Telegraph folks are wacky.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/most_influential_american_conservatives/comment-page-1/#comment-213011</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 23:27:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/11/most_influential_american_conservatives/#comment-213011</guid>
		<description>I find it sad that on this list, there are no conservatives. There are &quot;neo-cons,&quot; however neoconservatism bears less resemblance to conservatism as it does to straight-forward fascism, which is not conservative at all, but is actually radical. I heard one of the leaders of the American Enterprise Institute (a neo-con organization) state this quite clearly and candidly, saying that he himself was not a conservative but a radical. I do with regular Americans who continue to call themselves would get this memo: there are no more conservative politicians in the GOP, so please stop voting in more authoritarian radicals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it sad that on this list, there are no conservatives. There are "neo-cons," however neoconservatism bears less resemblance to conservatism as it does to straight-forward fascism, which is not conservative at all, but is actually radical. I heard one of the leaders of the American Enterprise Institute (a neo-con organization) state this quite clearly and candidly, saying that he himself was not a conservative but a radical. I do with regular Americans who continue to call themselves would get this memo: there are no more conservative politicians in the GOP, so please stop voting in more authoritarian radicals.</p>
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		<title>By: Pat Ryan</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/most_influential_american_conservatives/comment-page-1/#comment-212699</link>
		<dc:creator>Pat Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 19:31:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/11/most_influential_american_conservatives/#comment-212699</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s my list in order.

Cheney (the hand in the back of Bush&#039;s shirt)
Scaife (one of the early and top financiers)
Luntz  (the word meister)
Kristol (the articulator of neo-con theory)
Hadley (Cheney&#039;s gatekeeper and enforcer)

The limbaugh, drudge, hannity, malkin, billo, crowd are really just tools of the trade and don&#039;t merit mention as opinion makers. their job is just to &quot;push the propaganda&quot; as Bush has said.

*******

Of course none of the clowns mentioned above is an actual conservative in the classic sense like say: John Warner, Bob Barr, Richard Vigurie, Orrin Hatch, and the old warhorse John Ashcroft.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here's my list in order.</p>
<p>Cheney (the hand in the back of Bush's shirt)<br />
Scaife (one of the early and top financiers)<br />
Luntz  (the word meister)<br />
Kristol (the articulator of neo-con theory)<br />
Hadley (Cheney's gatekeeper and enforcer)</p>
<p>The limbaugh, drudge, hannity, malkin, billo, crowd are really just tools of the trade and don't merit mention as opinion makers. their job is just to "push the propaganda" as Bush has said.</p>
<p>*******</p>
<p>Of course none of the clowns mentioned above is an actual conservative in the classic sense like say: John Warner, Bob Barr, Richard Vigurie, Orrin Hatch, and the old warhorse John Ashcroft.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/most_influential_american_conservatives/comment-page-1/#comment-212668</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 18:55:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/11/most_influential_american_conservatives/#comment-212668</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;This kind of gives the lie to the story that General Petraeus&#039; statements in front of Congress were not &quot;politicall based&quot;, doesn&#039;t it?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That was understood to be a lie by most everyone at the time he was delivering the Bush message to congress. However, there were still a handful of Bush faithful who were still manufacturing some indignation about that at the time. Now that their accountability moment has passed, however, they&#039;re quick to pad their boy on the back.

Adding to this, it turns out that Patraeus&#039; press officer is rampantly partisan. Check out his &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2007/10/31/boylan/index.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;regretable exchange with Glenn Greenwald&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>This kind of gives the lie to the story that General Petraeus' statements in front of Congress were not "politicall based", doesn't it?</p></blockquote>
<p>That was understood to be a lie by most everyone at the time he was delivering the Bush message to congress. However, there were still a handful of Bush faithful who were still manufacturing some indignation about that at the time. Now that their accountability moment has passed, however, they're quick to pad their boy on the back.</p>
<p>Adding to this, it turns out that Patraeus' press officer is rampantly partisan. Check out his <a href="http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2007/10/31/boylan/index.html" rel="nofollow">regretable exchange with Glenn Greenwald</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Philadelphia Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/most_influential_american_conservatives/comment-page-1/#comment-212634</link>
		<dc:creator>Philadelphia Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 18:15:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/11/most_influential_american_conservatives/#comment-212634</guid>
		<description>This kind of gives the lie to the story that General Petraeus&#039; statements in front of Congress were not &quot;politicall based&quot;, doesn&#039;t it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This kind of gives the lie to the story that General Petraeus' statements in front of Congress were not "politicall based", doesn't it?</p>
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		<title>By: Carl Gordon</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/most_influential_american_conservatives/comment-page-1/#comment-212628</link>
		<dc:creator>Carl Gordon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 18:11:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/11/most_influential_american_conservatives/#comment-212628</guid>
		<description>Boosh acts like a fifth grader? He’s unable to admit failure or stupidity? 

The answer must be to mainline Imitrex straight into the skull. Let the gibble jabble mix with the willy nilly, then you’ll find him going down the drain. Through the twists and turns, then you’ll come out doing the back stroke down the great, green, greasy Limbpopo River, if you know what I mean. Well, then everything will make sense. Especially as you give Laura a well-oiled and bemused grin. Her arms will wave and her gums will flap non-sensically as if they were tied by strings, just like Boosh, and being pulled by an unseen puppet master some where in the dankest recesses of some clandestine diabolical bunker, three miles below the low-tide mark, where scum sucking zygotes and lower forms of humanity hide their worthless asses from the light of reason and reality. But you will not be afraid of her or his madcapped gesticulations and giggling genuflections, for you are the annointed one. The one which has been annointing hiz sef’ all afternoon with the bubbly carbonated incantations of the Mead of the Druids. Some call it Breesky, some calls it Suds, you may even call for the Bud. Newts, salamanders, and mud puppies alike will all march past not only in astonishing formations (the judges liked what they saw!), but in impressive numbers, despite being dispirited over the lingering Korean black dog meat boycott still in effect. And that nasty, nasty stick of butter never materialized until it was time to retire for the evening.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Boosh acts like a fifth grader? He&rsquo;s unable to admit failure or stupidity? </p>
<p>The answer must be to mainline Imitrex straight into the skull. Let the gibble jabble mix with the willy nilly, then you&rsquo;ll find him going down the drain. Through the twists and turns, then you&rsquo;ll come out doing the back stroke down the great, green, greasy Limbpopo River, if you know what I mean. Well, then everything will make sense. Especially as you give Laura a well-oiled and bemused grin. Her arms will wave and her gums will flap non-sensically as if they were tied by strings, just like Boosh, and being pulled by an unseen puppet master some where in the dankest recesses of some clandestine diabolical bunker, three miles below the low-tide mark, where scum sucking zygotes and lower forms of humanity hide their worthless asses from the light of reason and reality. But you will not be afraid of her or his madcapped gesticulations and giggling genuflections, for you are the annointed one. The one which has been annointing hiz sef&rsquo; all afternoon with the bubbly carbonated incantations of the Mead of the Druids. Some call it Breesky, some calls it Suds, you may even call for the Bud. Newts, salamanders, and mud puppies alike will all march past not only in astonishing formations (the judges liked what they saw!), but in impressive numbers, despite being dispirited over the lingering Korean black dog meat boycott still in effect. And that nasty, nasty stick of butter never materialized until it was time to retire for the evening.</p>
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		<title>By: Political Animal</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/most_influential_american_conservatives/comment-page-1/#comment-212616</link>
		<dc:creator>Political Animal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 17:50:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/11/most_influential_american_conservatives/#comment-212616</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;List Mania...&lt;/strong&gt;

LIST MANIA....The Telegraph&#039;s list of the most influential liberals and conservatives in America is now complete, and the #1 most influential conservative is.....Rudy Giuliani! Surprise! James Joyner calls the list &quot;bizarre,&quot; and maybe it is. Puttin...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>List Mania...</strong></p>
<p>LIST MANIA....The Telegraph's list of the most influential liberals and conservatives in America is now complete, and the #1 most influential conservative is.....Rudy Giuliani! Surprise! James Joyner calls the list "bizarre," and maybe it is. Puttin...</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/most_influential_american_conservatives/comment-page-1/#comment-212607</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 17:36:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/11/most_influential_american_conservatives/#comment-212607</guid>
		<description>Any list would be controversial, among other reasons, because people will disagree on what it even means to be &quot;conservative.&quot;  Resisting change?   Trusting/respecting authority?  Opposed to government intervention in free markets?  But by any standard, this list does look remarkably absurd, especially with Guiliani and Hitchens whose temperments are not especially deferential to any opinion or authority other than their own.  Guiliani would take every liberal position in the book and eat a conservative for supper if it would make him king.  Meanwhile, if Hitchens were king, would the country change or stay the same?  The obvious answer plainly shows that whatever he is, he is by no means &quot;conservative.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Any list would be controversial, among other reasons, because people will disagree on what it even means to be "conservative."  Resisting change?   Trusting/respecting authority?  Opposed to government intervention in free markets?  But by any standard, this list does look remarkably absurd, especially with Guiliani and Hitchens whose temperments are not especially deferential to any opinion or authority other than their own.  Guiliani would take every liberal position in the book and eat a conservative for supper if it would make him king.  Meanwhile, if Hitchens were king, would the country change or stay the same?  The obvious answer plainly shows that whatever he is, he is by no means "conservative."</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Jaquith</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/most_influential_american_conservatives/comment-page-1/#comment-212588</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Jaquith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 17:18:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/11/most_influential_american_conservatives/#comment-212588</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;He’s committed us to wars in &lt;strong&gt;Iran&lt;/strong&gt; and Afghanistan that will be ongoing&lt;/blockquote&gt;

So &lt;em&gt;that&lt;/em&gt; explains the strange increase in F-15 traffic in and out of Centcom in the past week. ;-)

But seriously... Rudy, a conservative?  &lt;strong&gt;HA!&lt;/strong&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>He&rsquo;s committed us to wars in <strong>Iran</strong> and Afghanistan that will be ongoing</p></blockquote>
<p>So <em>that</em> explains the strange increase in F-15 traffic in and out of Centcom in the past week. ;-)</p>
<p>But seriously... Rudy, a conservative?  <strong>HA!</strong></p>
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		<title>By: psmarc93</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/most_influential_american_conservatives/comment-page-1/#comment-212514</link>
		<dc:creator>psmarc93</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 16:05:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/11/most_influential_american_conservatives/#comment-212514</guid>
		<description>TOMMO: The fact that he lies every time he speaks doesn&#039;t mean he&#039;s not an influential conservative. (I won&#039;t make the obvious snipe here). However, although Bush has abandoned the conservative values of State&#039;s rights, fiscal responsibility, and supporting a strong military (among so many other failures) he was unquestioningly supported during his elections and his tenure by the vast majority of the Republican party. He may have lied and betrayed all conservatives, but he also failed. If he had succeeded, no conservative would have cared that their values were flushed down the toilet for the sake of power. He does deserve to be at the top of the list. Bush is the Emperor of Conservatism -- a morally bankrupt, thinly veiled ancient blasphemy of a doctrine named &quot;might makes right.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TOMMO: The fact that he lies every time he speaks doesn't mean he's not an influential conservative. (I won't make the obvious snipe here). However, although Bush has abandoned the conservative values of State's rights, fiscal responsibility, and supporting a strong military (among so many other failures) he was unquestioningly supported during his elections and his tenure by the vast majority of the Republican party. He may have lied and betrayed all conservatives, but he also failed. If he had succeeded, no conservative would have cared that their values were flushed down the toilet for the sake of power. He does deserve to be at the top of the list. Bush is the Emperor of Conservatism -- a morally bankrupt, thinly veiled ancient blasphemy of a doctrine named "might makes right."</p>
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		<title>By: Rand</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/most_influential_american_conservatives/comment-page-1/#comment-212493</link>
		<dc:creator>Rand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 15:47:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/11/most_influential_american_conservatives/#comment-212493</guid>
		<description>Duh, he doesn&#039;t top the list because he isn&#039;t conservative.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Duh, he doesn't top the list because he isn't conservative.</p>
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		<title>By: tommo</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/most_influential_american_conservatives/comment-page-1/#comment-212479</link>
		<dc:creator>tommo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 15:34:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/11/most_influential_american_conservatives/#comment-212479</guid>
		<description>How does George W. Bush, the sitting president, not top the list?

Because no one believes a word coming from his filthy mouth.

Everything he says is either an outright lie or a cheap and meaningless platitude: &quot;We hate evildoers&quot;.  He needs to be put in prison now before he does more damage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How does George W. Bush, the sitting president, not top the list?</p>
<p>Because no one believes a word coming from his filthy mouth.</p>
<p>Everything he says is either an outright lie or a cheap and meaningless platitude: "We hate evildoers".  He needs to be put in prison now before he does more damage.</p>
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