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	<title>Comments on: MPAA Loses Again</title>
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	<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/mpaa_loses_again/</link>
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		<title>By: Eric Florack</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/mpaa_loses_again/comment-page-1/#comment-1080017</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Florack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 17:03:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=38671#comment-1080017</guid>
		<description>Boyd,

True.

That&#039;s why I covered that aspect in my second response.  

It&#039;s striking, though, that we&#039;re dealing more with the technology minutiae than the end-user &lt;strong&gt;reality &lt;/strong&gt;of the situation. (the emph is crucial to the point) Given the end user reality, I don&#039;t see the difference in principle. 
 
By the way, James.... I forgot one feature TW has been offering which adds a bit of cloud to all of this; &quot;Start Over&quot;. Digital customers have the ability to show up at any time during the program and issue the order to &#039;start over&#039; the program so you won&#039;t miss the thing. this shows several things. first, it tells me they&#039;re ALREADY storing everything.  Since you mentioned the commercials... the real source of revenue anyway... one &#039;feature&#039; of &quot;start over&quot; is that you can&#039;t shuttle past the commercials.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Boyd,</p>
<p>True.</p>
<p>That's why I covered that aspect in my second response.  </p>
<p>It's striking, though, that we're dealing more with the technology minutiae than the end-user <strong>reality </strong>of the situation. (the emph is crucial to the point) Given the end user reality, I don't see the difference in principle. </p>
<p>By the way, James.... I forgot one feature TW has been offering which adds a bit of cloud to all of this; "Start Over". Digital customers have the ability to show up at any time during the program and issue the order to 'start over' the program so you won't miss the thing. this shows several things. first, it tells me they're ALREADY storing everything.  Since you mentioned the commercials... the real source of revenue anyway... one 'feature' of "start over" is that you can't shuttle past the commercials.</p>
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		<title>By: Boyd</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/mpaa_loses_again/comment-page-1/#comment-1080007</link>
		<dc:creator>Boyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 16:51:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=38671#comment-1080007</guid>
		<description>Bit, I think James&#039;s choice of an illustrating graphic is confusing the issue a bit. From the linked article, and quoted by James above (emphasis added, of course):

&lt;blockquote&gt;The new &lt;b&gt;DVR service&lt;/b&gt; would work by storing a viewer’s recordings in computers &lt;b&gt;housed at the cable operator&lt;/b&gt;, rather than in a box attached to the viewer’s TV set...&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I think a lot of this will revolve around how it&#039;s implemented, or at least how they spin the implementation. I can see how a &quot;&#039;pre-emptive&#039; recording by the service provider&quot; and a &quot;specific recording by the ultimate consumer&quot; can be viewed as different beasts, even if the final product is indistinguishable between the two.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bit, I think James's choice of an illustrating graphic is confusing the issue a bit. From the linked article, and quoted by James above (emphasis added, of course):</p>
<blockquote><p>The new <b>DVR service</b> would work by storing a viewer&rsquo;s recordings in computers <b>housed at the cable operator</b>, rather than in a box attached to the viewer&rsquo;s TV set...</p></blockquote>
<p>I think a lot of this will revolve around how it's implemented, or at least how they spin the implementation. I can see how a "'pre-emptive' recording by the service provider" and a "specific recording by the ultimate consumer" can be viewed as different beasts, even if the final product is indistinguishable between the two.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Florack</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/mpaa_loses_again/comment-page-1/#comment-1079927</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Florack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 16:02:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=38671#comment-1079927</guid>
		<description>Hmmm.

Well, the one you have pictured uses a fair sized hard drive for the purpose of storage. As I say, I have one of those beasts.

That said, TW up here also has programs that they store at their central site they call &#039;on demand&#039;. OD does carry a premium price for the producers... even the OD that TW offers for free. 

Now,  I can see where that technology wouldn&#039;t need to be changed much to function like a DVR. It would have the advanage of being far less of a maintainance worry, than would having the technology installed in end user&#039;s houses.... on top of the leveaging of storage you mention.

Now, as I gather it, there was very little challange to the customer domocile equipment, (Whcih stores stuf in a device on the consumer&#039;s property) because the case law surrounding the end user&#039;s right to record and playback was well established with the VCR. (Interestingly, a lot of the principles applied were orignally heard and developed incoidental to RIAA lawsuits regards audio tape.)

If you&#039;re correct that the technology is at the cable company&#039;s end, but in effect rented  by the customer, I grant the technology is different, but I fail to see any difference in legality. The customer is making use of his right to record and playback in his home. 

Every time there&#039;s an advancement in technology these parasites try to extrot more money from the end user. In that sense, they&#039;re not unlike government.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm.</p>
<p>Well, the one you have pictured uses a fair sized hard drive for the purpose of storage. As I say, I have one of those beasts.</p>
<p>That said, TW up here also has programs that they store at their central site they call 'on demand'. OD does carry a premium price for the producers... even the OD that TW offers for free. </p>
<p>Now,  I can see where that technology wouldn't need to be changed much to function like a DVR. It would have the advanage of being far less of a maintainance worry, than would having the technology installed in end user's houses.... on top of the leveaging of storage you mention.</p>
<p>Now, as I gather it, there was very little challange to the customer domocile equipment, (Whcih stores stuf in a device on the consumer's property) because the case law surrounding the end user's right to record and playback was well established with the VCR. (Interestingly, a lot of the principles applied were orignally heard and developed incoidental to RIAA lawsuits regards audio tape.)</p>
<p>If you're correct that the technology is at the cable company's end, but in effect rented  by the customer, I grant the technology is different, but I fail to see any difference in legality. The customer is making use of his right to record and playback in his home. </p>
<p>Every time there's an advancement in technology these parasites try to extrot more money from the end user. In that sense, they're not unlike government.</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/mpaa_loses_again/comment-page-1/#comment-1079767</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 13:14:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=38671#comment-1079767</guid>
		<description>My understanding is that this isn&#039;t a &quot;box&quot; but rather massive shared storage at the cable company. If you save, say, the latest &quot;Burn Notice,&quot; they don&#039;t save a separate copy for you and the other 5000 subscribers also saving it but rather just serve it to those subscribers on demand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My understanding is that this isn't a "box" but rather massive shared storage at the cable company. If you save, say, the latest "Burn Notice," they don't save a separate copy for you and the other 5000 subscribers also saving it but rather just serve it to those subscribers on demand.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Florack</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/mpaa_loses_again/comment-page-1/#comment-1079723</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Florack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:25:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=38671#comment-1079723</guid>
		<description>Well, don&#039;t get too excited, James, about the &#039;massive&#039; storehouse of viewing available on a DVR. As it happens, I have a T/W implenatation of the DVR you&#039;ve pictured. If there&#039;s enough room on the thing for 25 hours of HD, I&#039;d be surprised. Now, granted, I gather there are ways to hang added drives off the thing, but that&#039;s extra money most people won&#039;t bother to invest. The biggest use for such boxes is delayed viewing.  Thereby, I should add, destroying the nonsense about added fees being called for for duplicated programming.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, don't get too excited, James, about the 'massive' storehouse of viewing available on a DVR. As it happens, I have a T/W implenatation of the DVR you've pictured. If there's enough room on the thing for 25 hours of HD, I'd be surprised. Now, granted, I gather there are ways to hang added drives off the thing, but that's extra money most people won't bother to invest. The biggest use for such boxes is delayed viewing.  Thereby, I should add, destroying the nonsense about added fees being called for for duplicated programming.</p>
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