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	<title>Comments on: Nationalized Health Care</title>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/nationalized_health_care/comment-page-1/#comment-35390</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Feb 2005 17:32:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=9108#comment-35390</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I see your point Jamesâbut one would have to know about what the demand for the IVF services were before you could really understand the extent to which market-based IVF would increase costs for the health system.

Are there really a lot of people who are trying to get IVF treatment? Also, are doctors &amp; other health care workers strictly motivated by money? Would the fact of medical specialization make it less likely that someone would ditch the Canadian national system to go the private route?
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Lets put it this way.  Right now there are people in Canada who are willing to come here to the U.S. and pay more than they would if they had private suppliers in Canada (i.e., travel costs, lodging costs, food costs, etc.).  So there are gains to be made via trade here.  This would suck up resources from other health care activities and would end up costing the Canandian health system money.  Considering that the Canadian system was in money trouble that last time I read about it (i.e., there were some saying the system was unsustainable), I don&#039;t think this idea would be looked on kindly.

&lt;blockquote&gt;That makes sense, since, as I mentioned in the comments, IVF is a medical procedure that has absolutely nothing to do with public health. It is a non-essential âsurgicalâ procedure, qualitatively equivalent to getting a tatoo or a tounge pierce.

Because IVF is strictly a private good, there should be no public subusidies for it.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

But this raises the issue, if you have the money to pay for it why should you be prevented from doing it.  Canandians are lucky in that they have the U.S. as a neighbor (for this issue) and can come here with relative ease.  But the higher costs means that some people who could afford it at home, but not abroad wont be getting IVF and wont have the children they clearly desire.

Is this really a decision for the government to be making?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I see your point Jamesâbut one would have to know about what the demand for the IVF services were before you could really understand the extent to which market-based IVF would increase costs for the health system.</p>
<p>Are there really a lot of people who are trying to get IVF treatment? Also, are doctors &#038; other health care workers strictly motivated by money? Would the fact of medical specialization make it less likely that someone would ditch the Canadian national system to go the private route?
</p></blockquote>
<p>Lets put it this way.  Right now there are people in Canada who are willing to come here to the U.S. and pay more than they would if they had private suppliers in Canada (i.e., travel costs, lodging costs, food costs, etc.).  So there are gains to be made via trade here.  This would suck up resources from other health care activities and would end up costing the Canandian health system money.  Considering that the Canadian system was in money trouble that last time I read about it (i.e., there were some saying the system was unsustainable), I don't think this idea would be looked on kindly.</p>
<blockquote><p>That makes sense, since, as I mentioned in the comments, IVF is a medical procedure that has absolutely nothing to do with public health. It is a non-essential âsurgicalâ procedure, qualitatively equivalent to getting a tatoo or a tounge pierce.</p>
<p>Because IVF is strictly a private good, there should be no public subusidies for it.
</p></blockquote>
<p>But this raises the issue, if you have the money to pay for it why should you be prevented from doing it.  Canandians are lucky in that they have the U.S. as a neighbor (for this issue) and can come here with relative ease.  But the higher costs means that some people who could afford it at home, but not abroad wont be getting IVF and wont have the children they clearly desire.</p>
<p>Is this really a decision for the government to be making?</p>
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		<title>By: Teri</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/nationalized_health_care/comment-page-1/#comment-35381</link>
		<dc:creator>Teri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Feb 2005 16:35:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=9108#comment-35381</guid>
		<description>&quot;Some discomfort? Its surgery, Teri.&quot;

Robin, so is donating bone marrow, and people do that for free.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"Some discomfort? Its surgery, Teri."</p>
<p>Robin, so is donating bone marrow, and people do that for free.</p>
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		<title>By: Robin Roberts</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/nationalized_health_care/comment-page-1/#comment-35364</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin Roberts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Feb 2005 14:53:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=9108#comment-35364</guid>
		<description>Kappiy, you continue to misrepresent the issue as one of &quot;subsidy&quot;.  That isn&#039;t what is going on at all in this or the previous discussion.  The question is one of suppression of politically disfavored health care that people want, in order to control the costs of the politically favored.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kappiy, you continue to misrepresent the issue as one of "subsidy".  That isn't what is going on at all in this or the previous discussion.  The question is one of suppression of politically disfavored health care that people want, in order to control the costs of the politically favored.</p>
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		<title>By: kappiy</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/nationalized_health_care/comment-page-1/#comment-35342</link>
		<dc:creator>kappiy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Feb 2005 05:25:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=9108#comment-35342</guid>
		<description>Steve, sorry I called you &quot;James&quot;!  I keep forgetting that James has comrades in the posting seat!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve, sorry I called you "James"!  I keep forgetting that James has comrades in the posting seat!</p>
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		<title>By: kappiy</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/nationalized_health_care/comment-page-1/#comment-35341</link>
		<dc:creator>kappiy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Feb 2005 05:23:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=9108#comment-35341</guid>
		<description>I see your point James--but one would have to know about what the demand for the IVF services were before you could really understand the extent to which market-based IVF would increase costs for the health system.

Are there really a lot of people who are trying to get IVF treatment?  Also, are doctors &amp; other health care workers strictly motivated by money?  Would the fact of medical specialization make it less likely that someone would ditch the Canadian national system to go the private route?

I have no idea what the answers are...I think that it is true that the Candians stopped this practice  because they saw it pulling resources from the national health care system.

That makes sense, since, as I mentioned in the comments, IVF is a medical procedure that has absolutely nothing to do with public health.  It is a non-essential &quot;surgical&quot; procedure, qualitatively equivalent to getting a tatoo or a tounge pierce.

Because IVF is strictly a private good, there should be no public subusidies for it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see your point James--but one would have to know about what the demand for the IVF services were before you could really understand the extent to which market-based IVF would increase costs for the health system.</p>
<p>Are there really a lot of people who are trying to get IVF treatment?  Also, are doctors &#038; other health care workers strictly motivated by money?  Would the fact of medical specialization make it less likely that someone would ditch the Canadian national system to go the private route?</p>
<p>I have no idea what the answers are...I think that it is true that the Candians stopped this practice  because they saw it pulling resources from the national health care system.</p>
<p>That makes sense, since, as I mentioned in the comments, IVF is a medical procedure that has absolutely nothing to do with public health.  It is a non-essential "surgical" procedure, qualitatively equivalent to getting a tatoo or a tounge pierce.</p>
<p>Because IVF is strictly a private good, there should be no public subusidies for it.</p>
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		<title>By: Robin Roberts</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/nationalized_health_care/comment-page-1/#comment-35329</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin Roberts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Feb 2005 01:45:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=9108#comment-35329</guid>
		<description>Some discomfort?  Its surgery, Teri.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some discomfort?  Its surgery, Teri.</p>
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		<title>By: Teri</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/nationalized_health_care/comment-page-1/#comment-35327</link>
		<dc:creator>Teri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Feb 2005 01:23:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=9108#comment-35327</guid>
		<description>I didn&#039;t know that women were paid for donating eggs for in vitro.  I would have expected that it would be a donation, like giving blood or bone marrow.  I understand that the process involves some discomfort - I think the donor is asked to take medication to increase the number of eggs produced for harvesting.  But still, I would think that there would be a certain number of women who would be willing to do it for free, either because they just like helping people have babies or because they want to donate to a specific friend.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn't know that women were paid for donating eggs for in vitro.  I would have expected that it would be a donation, like giving blood or bone marrow.  I understand that the process involves some discomfort - I think the donor is asked to take medication to increase the number of eggs produced for harvesting.  But still, I would think that there would be a certain number of women who would be willing to do it for free, either because they just like helping people have babies or because they want to donate to a specific friend.</p>
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		<title>By: The Political Teen</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/nationalized_health_care/comment-page-1/#comment-35325</link>
		<dc:creator>The Political Teen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Feb 2005 01:05:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=9108#comment-35325</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Blogosphere  2/3&lt;/strong&gt;
Andrew Sullivan goes into hiatus Hard to believe, but Laura Bush was sitting close to a killer last night. Wizbang gives an update on &#039;that naked reporter&#039;. A Little Bit About Everything has some great Hillary pics. Say Anything has...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Blogosphere  2/3</strong><br />
Andrew Sullivan goes into hiatus Hard to believe, but Laura Bush was sitting close to a killer last night. Wizbang gives an update on 'that naked reporter'. A Little Bit About Everything has some great Hillary pics. Say Anything has...</p>
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		<title>By: The Kudzu Files</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/nationalized_health_care/comment-page-1/#comment-35324</link>
		<dc:creator>The Kudzu Files</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Feb 2005 00:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=9108#comment-35324</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Buying Health Care&lt;/strong&gt;
I&#039;ve gotten embroiled in a mini-debate with Steve Verdon on Outside the Beltway over health care costs and access - well, it looks like a mini-debate from my side, anyway, I suspect from his perspective it&#039;s more like a cat...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Buying Health Care</strong><br />
I've gotten embroiled in a mini-debate with Steve Verdon on Outside the Beltway over health care costs and access - well, it looks like a mini-debate from my side, anyway, I suspect from his perspective it's more like a cat...</p>
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