Comments on: New Army Advanced Combat Uniform Review

By: Frank

Frank — Sat, 13 Aug 2005 02:42:41 +0000

While I'm sure it's easy to second-guess just about everything the military does, I'm sure that given the mission of the Airborne Corps, if there wasn't a solid reason for the three weeks of jump school, they'd have scrapped it long ago. Hell, even if that reason is simply "tradition", those three weeks serve a purpose. I went to jump school at Benning in '85, and what was impressed upon me was that we weren't only being taught to jump, (which apparently a chimp can do), but to jump fully loaded in the dark, with hundreds of other troops suspended in the air at the same time, land without getting injured, and most importantly, not be so freaked out by the experience that you could actually get up and go on to complete your mission. The issue was not just to jump, but to make it something that wasn't a big deal. The big deal of course, would be the fireworks that followed. Jump school is a stepping stone to bigger and better things, and a means to weed out those who really aren't up to the challenge of what might lie ahead. As for the blood wings, when my Dad, a D-Day vet, pounded mine into my chest with all his might, well, I don't think I'd have traded that experience for anything. He was waiting on the drop zone for me after my fifth jump. Several of my buddies also requested blood wings from my dad. He was a loadmaster who dropped the 82nd on D-Day and that connection to the history and tradition or the Airborne was part of what made me want to serve in the first place. Although the legendary history of the American Airborne Soldiers may seem hoky to some of you, lets not forget that it's that same storied history that makes our enemies crap themselves when they see parachutes in the sky. Rangers, Special Forces, and the 82nd (with thier little "merit badges") have done a lot for this country.

By: Steve

Steve — Sat, 13 Aug 2005 01:23:23 +0000

I went to Jump School in 1974, when we were still using the T-10s. Made the mistake of showing up on a Friday after 5 p.m. so, I had a zero week. THAT was a waste of time.
The thing about jump school, is that it is not that physically difficult, but it is psychologically very effective. By the end of Tower week, I honestly believed that I was the baddest ass around, and that come Jump week, if both of the chutes failed, that the ground would get out of the way.
First jump cured that notion.

By: SSG B

SSG B — Sat, 13 Aug 2005 00:57:45 +0000

My BNCOC was 2 months long. I'm a 42A. There was no reason for it to go on that long. We'd have eight hours of instruction for something as simple as NCOERs. It was a waste. The only good part about it was the weekends when I'd go down to Rafters in Five Points and... enjoy myself... with a rather attractive classmate of the fairer sex.

By: Gabriel Chapman

Gabriel Chapman — Fri, 12 Aug 2005 23:17:17 +0000

Given that civilian jump classes are all of 4 to 6 hours for your basic static line jump, I tend to agree that Jump School is way too long. Now of course, jumping with combat gear is a tad bit different, still this course should be condensed into a week. This isn't HALO or HAHO

By: CPT OldFart

CPT OldFart — Fri, 12 Aug 2005 21:16:03 +0000

As a young man I had one reason and one reason only for going to jump school: Someone told me that "Chicks dig the wings."

(Then I met a girl with the wings. Hoo-ah.)

By: Al Maviva

Al Maviva — Fri, 12 Aug 2005 20:57:51 +0000

I went to jump school at Benning the week after Saddam invaded Kuwait. The senior black hats, whose ranks included a number of 'Nam vets with 101st combat patches, restored the olde skoole standard runs, 5 miles a day, 10 on Fridays, at a blistering, flat-out pace. They told us on day 1 that we were likely to be diverted to the 82d, to serve as replacements and augmentees for the cannon-fodder from Bragg, ergo, the black hats wouldn't "f*** around" as they usually did. We lost close to 60% of the class. Something tells me we weren't trained to TRADOC standards. But it was a good way to get rid of a lot of non-hackers. Those who made it through struck me as basically solid, and likely to pass the foxhole test. Of course nobody rescinded my existing orders, and I wound up in the Gulf with one of the proudest leg (actually mech) divisions in the Army, but at least I had a good story about my olde skoole jump training. And I could run like a scalded cat, which helped me max some PT tests and win sergeants stripes.

By: Swede

Swede — Fri, 12 Aug 2005 20:18:42 +0000

I went through jump school in '87. While I didn't jump in Iraq, the LRS company I was in did find that schools like that are often beneficial in building a tight, cohesive unit. The desire to do things like jump out of a moving aircraft attracts a certain type of man that is usually willing to take the extra steps when they're needed. I have 2 badges: basic jump wings and a CMB to replace my EFMB. I don't mind the so called "badge collectors". If it was so easy, everybody would have them.

By: Matt

Matt — Fri, 12 Aug 2005 19:24:46 +0000

Geez Paul/Russ, it was a joke. Lighten up, Francis.

By: James Joyner

James Joyner — Fri, 12 Aug 2005 18:59:38 +0000

Don: I remember that course, as I was class of 1988. Unfortunately, I did camp at Riley and missed out. I wound up doing Air Assault as a cadet and Airborne as a 2LT.

By: Donald Sensing

Donald Sensing — Fri, 12 Aug 2005 18:43:03 +0000

Every year after ROTC Advanced Camp at Ft Bragg, 5th SF Gp ran an airborne school for ROTC cadets. It lasted two weeks and was TRADOC certified. One wk ground school and one week jump week, done. No yelling, screaming, etc. PT in the morning, train all day. The SF NCOs teach, not harass. IIRC, this program got yanked by TRADOC in 1988 or so because it wasn't three weeks like the "real" jump school at Benning.

By: Russ Mitchell/Boxing Alcibiades

Russ Mitchell/Boxing Alcibiades — Fri, 12 Aug 2005 18:31:37 +0000

Gotta agree with Paul. I do worse than that to myself with a sewing needle on a regular basis.

Is it just me, or etween the collar and everything... does the new uniform basically look like a super-updated version of a caftan? Like the Mongols understood the proper military uniform, and everything else has just been adjustments since then?

By: gordon daugherty

gordon daugherty — Fri, 12 Aug 2005 18:01:50 +0000

re the woodland uniforms, don't forget we have people in the Phillipines, S America, etc. Plenty of woods there.

By: paul a'barge

paul a'barge — Fri, 12 Aug 2005 17:52:42 +0000

"...you get the pointy parts of your âshiny merit badgeâ punched into your chest.."

What kind of a big pussy would feel it necessary to complain about a couple of punch holes in his chest?

If you can't take that, then you're better off going down the road and not endangering the lives of fellow warriors when the time comes to take some real pain and agony.

By: Hartley

Hartley — Fri, 12 Aug 2005 17:43:13 +0000

I was SF/Airborne a looong time ago (how long? - we got some of the first "woodland" camo to test - we told 'em that OD green worked better for us in the woods of Europe).. IMHO, the only reason Airborne school is three weeks is for the physical training.. it seemed like most incoming students needed SERIOUS work getting into "airborne" shape.. I think everybody goes to Airborne School BEFORE they go on to SF, Ranger or whatever.. and you have to start at a pretty high level of conditioning for those schools.

By: JACK ARMY

JACK ARMY — Fri, 12 Aug 2005 17:23:35 +0000

We get 30 days of paid vacation per year. That's break enough. After all, a veteran of 12 years has only worked 11, right?

Most of the NCO's in my last course (ANCOC) did not want to be there. They were frustrated that the material covered either did not apply to their MOS or that they had been doing those tasks for years already.

I really think that NCOES could use some tweaking.