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	<title>Comments on: New Jersey Supremes Announce Right to Same-Sex Unions</title>
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		<title>By: floyd</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/new_jersey_supremes_announce_right_to_same-sex_unions/comment-page-1/#comment-101991</link>
		<dc:creator>floyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Oct 2006 03:26:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>tano; progress? only for &quot;progressives&quot;. *awe c&#039;mon meet me half way* *i&#039;m a &quot;centerist&quot; . are you too closed minded to compromise?* these are the inane arguments commonly used by the far left to coax the middle into the gutter. how do they sound coming from your right? today&#039;s left makes yesterday&#039;s left look like right wing fanatics.   *hurry send the thought police before the truth gets out!*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tano; progress? only for "progressives". *awe c'mon meet me half way* *i'm a "centerist" . are you too closed minded to compromise?* these are the inane arguments commonly used by the far left to coax the middle into the gutter. how do they sound coming from your right? today's left makes yesterday's left look like right wing fanatics.   *hurry send the thought police before the truth gets out!*</p>
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		<title>By: Tano</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/new_jersey_supremes_announce_right_to_same-sex_unions/comment-page-1/#comment-101984</link>
		<dc:creator>Tano</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Oct 2006 01:23:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>bye bye floyd, I always suspected that you guys on the far right were deeply uncomfortable with the reality of America, and its progress.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>bye bye floyd, I always suspected that you guys on the far right were deeply uncomfortable with the reality of America, and its progress.</p>
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		<title>By: floyd</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/new_jersey_supremes_announce_right_to_same-sex_unions/comment-page-1/#comment-101975</link>
		<dc:creator>floyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Oct 2006 22:40:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/10/new_jersey_supremes_announce_right_to_same-sex_unions/#comment-101975</guid>
		<description>&quot;When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another&quot;..... how long before we are compelled to declare cause once more?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another"..... how long before we are compelled to declare cause once more?</p>
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		<title>By: Tano</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/new_jersey_supremes_announce_right_to_same-sex_unions/comment-page-1/#comment-101945</link>
		<dc:creator>Tano</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Oct 2006 17:40:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/10/new_jersey_supremes_announce_right_to_same-sex_unions/#comment-101945</guid>
		<description>Dadmanly,

Marriage, as a concept, exists in two separate spheres. In the religous context, it is defined by each religion in any way that the religion chooses to do so. Religion is a voluntary matter, and one can certainly choose to associate with traditions that one feels comfortable with, and to define ones life around the ideas and institutions that the relgion promotes.

Compliance with the laws is not a voluntary matter, and the government is not a spiritual institution. Governments recognize marriages, and offer benefits to those engaged in them, because it is a simple fact of life that humans tend to form pair bonds, and these social units are an important aspect of any successful society. For the government, the issue of marriage is a practical matter, dealing with issues like tax laws, legal contracts and the like.

Whereas marrying your refrigerator, or your pet, or not doing so, might be an issue for a church to deal with, it is not relevant to the government. Refrigerators and pets are not persons under the law to whom benefits or legal status might accrue, nor can they enter into contracts etc.

Your statement about the preferential treatment of marriage and married people is rather absurd. There will be no change in these preferences - in fact the NJ courts made clear that these preferences are perfectly legitimate - all they decreed is that they be extended to gay committed couples that form stable social units.

I dont know if you are married, but if so, I hope your wife isn&#039;t too brokenhearted by your view of the value of your marriage, now that gay couples can have legal rights too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dadmanly,</p>
<p>Marriage, as a concept, exists in two separate spheres. In the religous context, it is defined by each religion in any way that the religion chooses to do so. Religion is a voluntary matter, and one can certainly choose to associate with traditions that one feels comfortable with, and to define ones life around the ideas and institutions that the relgion promotes.</p>
<p>Compliance with the laws is not a voluntary matter, and the government is not a spiritual institution. Governments recognize marriages, and offer benefits to those engaged in them, because it is a simple fact of life that humans tend to form pair bonds, and these social units are an important aspect of any successful society. For the government, the issue of marriage is a practical matter, dealing with issues like tax laws, legal contracts and the like.</p>
<p>Whereas marrying your refrigerator, or your pet, or not doing so, might be an issue for a church to deal with, it is not relevant to the government. Refrigerators and pets are not persons under the law to whom benefits or legal status might accrue, nor can they enter into contracts etc.</p>
<p>Your statement about the preferential treatment of marriage and married people is rather absurd. There will be no change in these preferences - in fact the NJ courts made clear that these preferences are perfectly legitimate - all they decreed is that they be extended to gay committed couples that form stable social units.</p>
<p>I dont know if you are married, but if so, I hope your wife isn't too brokenhearted by your view of the value of your marriage, now that gay couples can have legal rights too.</p>
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		<title>By: Dadmanly</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/new_jersey_supremes_announce_right_to_same-sex_unions/comment-page-1/#comment-101937</link>
		<dc:creator>Dadmanly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Oct 2006 17:06:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/10/new_jersey_supremes_announce_right_to_same-sex_unions/#comment-101937</guid>
		<description>Just as the State was unable to provide a compelling argument for preventing gay [unions] [marriages][partnerships][onions][insert legislature approved term here], they will likewise and by obvious extension be unable to provide a compelling argument why one cannot marry one&#039;s pet, one&#039;s house, one&#039;s car, let alone a multitude of partners and combinations.

When the &quot;civil rights paradigm&quot; was extended to sexual orientation, it was absolutely inevitable that this would spell the demise of preferential treatment to marriages and married people. Everybody must have the same opportunities and benefits.

There will be a brief rally when sponsors try to enact preferential benefits for those who birth or adopt children, then those too will die at the hands of those unable to be parents.

Marriage has value to society as originally construed. Marriage in this brave new world retains no value at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just as the State was unable to provide a compelling argument for preventing gay [unions] [marriages][partnerships][onions][insert legislature approved term here], they will likewise and by obvious extension be unable to provide a compelling argument why one cannot marry one's pet, one's house, one's car, let alone a multitude of partners and combinations.</p>
<p>When the "civil rights paradigm" was extended to sexual orientation, it was absolutely inevitable that this would spell the demise of preferential treatment to marriages and married people. Everybody must have the same opportunities and benefits.</p>
<p>There will be a brief rally when sponsors try to enact preferential benefits for those who birth or adopt children, then those too will die at the hands of those unable to be parents.</p>
<p>Marriage has value to society as originally construed. Marriage in this brave new world retains no value at all.</p>
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		<title>By: Conservative Culture &#187; New Jersey Court Forces Marriage Expansion</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/new_jersey_supremes_announce_right_to_same-sex_unions/comment-page-1/#comment-101908</link>
		<dc:creator>Conservative Culture &#187; New Jersey Court Forces Marriage Expansion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Oct 2006 13:21:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] Outside the Beltway is more than slightly confused by the Courts logic and then their inconsistency in the ruling.  One could argue, of course, that the New Jersey Constitution’s equal protection clause was never intended to wipe away gender distinctions in marriage. Indeed, I would argue that. But the majority of the state’s supreme court has just ruled otherwise but then not followed the logic of their own ruling. Most odd.     Feedbacks on this entry via RSS 2.0 Please leave a Comment or discuss via Trackback! [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Outside the Beltway is more than slightly confused by the Courts logic and then their inconsistency in the ruling.  One could argue, of course, that the New Jersey Constitution&rsquo;s equal protection clause was never intended to wipe away gender distinctions in marriage. Indeed, I would argue that. But the majority of the state&rsquo;s supreme court has just ruled otherwise but then not followed the logic of their own ruling. Most odd.     Feedbacks on this entry via RSS 2.0 Please leave a Comment or discuss via Trackback! [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/new_jersey_supremes_announce_right_to_same-sex_unions/comment-page-1/#comment-101907</link>
		<dc:creator>Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Oct 2006 13:02:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Not enough attention, I think, to the surprising &lt;i&gt;unanimity&lt;/i&gt; of the decision.  For all the mouthing about how the NJ constitution doesn&#039;t really say so-and-so, not one of seven justices cared to dissent in favor of the status quo.  This in a state where, traditionally, they balance the justices 3-3 on partisan lines, with the gov getting the 7th pick.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not enough attention, I think, to the surprising <i>unanimity</i> of the decision.  For all the mouthing about how the NJ constitution doesn't really say so-and-so, not one of seven justices cared to dissent in favor of the status quo.  This in a state where, traditionally, they balance the justices 3-3 on partisan lines, with the gov getting the 7th pick.</p>
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		<title>By: Stop The ACLU</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/new_jersey_supremes_announce_right_to_same-sex_unions/comment-page-1/#comment-101906</link>
		<dc:creator>Stop The ACLU</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Oct 2006 12:07:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/10/new_jersey_supremes_announce_right_to_same-sex_unions/#comment-101906</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;New Jersey Court Rules In Favor For Same Sex Unions...&lt;/strong&gt;

	New Jersey rules in favor of Gay Marriage.
	New Jersey&#8217;s highest court ruled Wednesday that gay couples are entitled to the same rights as heterosexuals, but that lawmakers must determine whether the state will honor gay marriage or some other f...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>New Jersey Court Rules In Favor For Same Sex Unions...</strong></p>
<p>	New Jersey rules in favor of Gay Marriage.<br />
	New Jersey&#8217;s highest court ruled Wednesday that gay couples are entitled to the same rights as heterosexuals, but that lawmakers must determine whether the state will honor gay marriage or some other f...</p>
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		<title>By: Tano</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/new_jersey_supremes_announce_right_to_same-sex_unions/comment-page-1/#comment-101900</link>
		<dc:creator>Tano</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Oct 2006 04:31:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/10/new_jersey_supremes_announce_right_to_same-sex_unions/#comment-101900</guid>
		<description>I really dont buy that Plessy argument James. The court is saying that while it is not our business what you call it, you had better apply the law equally and grant true equality. They did not prohibit the legislature from calling it marriage, they simply focused on the actual consequences of whatever regime is enacted, and demanded that it be equal. I dont see the justification for you claiming that they are treating gay couples differently under the law, unless you think semantics is a bigger issue than I do.

For the record, I would hope the legislature does call the unions marriages. But if the people arent ready for that, well, at least they cannot deny equal treatment to gays, in terms of legal benefits and priveledges. If it turns out that a &quot;civil union&quot; is a sham form of equality, as the Plessy equality was, and then I will join your critique.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really dont buy that Plessy argument James. The court is saying that while it is not our business what you call it, you had better apply the law equally and grant true equality. They did not prohibit the legislature from calling it marriage, they simply focused on the actual consequences of whatever regime is enacted, and demanded that it be equal. I dont see the justification for you claiming that they are treating gay couples differently under the law, unless you think semantics is a bigger issue than I do.</p>
<p>For the record, I would hope the legislature does call the unions marriages. But if the people arent ready for that, well, at least they cannot deny equal treatment to gays, in terms of legal benefits and priveledges. If it turns out that a "civil union" is a sham form of equality, as the Plessy equality was, and then I will join your critique.</p>
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		<title>By: Triumph</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/new_jersey_supremes_announce_right_to_same-sex_unions/comment-page-1/#comment-101887</link>
		<dc:creator>Triumph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Oct 2006 22:34:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/10/new_jersey_supremes_announce_right_to_same-sex_unions/#comment-101887</guid>
		<description>This sucks.  There will undoubtedly be more gays recruiting new coverts in New Jersey.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This sucks.  There will undoubtedly be more gays recruiting new coverts in New Jersey.</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/new_jersey_supremes_announce_right_to_same-sex_unions/comment-page-1/#comment-101885</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Oct 2006 22:27:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/10/new_jersey_supremes_announce_right_to_same-sex_unions/#comment-101885</guid>
		<description>Tano:  But that&#039;s essentially the logic of Plessy v. Ferguson.  What difference does it make which car black people (even those, like the plaintiff, who were 7/8 white) rode in so long as they got to take the train?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tano:  But that's essentially the logic of Plessy v. Ferguson.  What difference does it make which car black people (even those, like the plaintiff, who were 7/8 white) rode in so long as they got to take the train?</p>
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		<title>By: Tano</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/new_jersey_supremes_announce_right_to_same-sex_unions/comment-page-1/#comment-101882</link>
		<dc:creator>Tano</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Oct 2006 22:04:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/10/new_jersey_supremes_announce_right_to_same-sex_unions/#comment-101882</guid>
		<description>At first reading, the decision seems to make a lot of sense to me. The name given to the institution, be it marriage or union, does not seem to rise to the level of fundamental constitutional rights. The dispensation of government benefits and preferences however, does call into play the principle of equal treatment under the laws.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At first reading, the decision seems to make a lot of sense to me. The name given to the institution, be it marriage or union, does not seem to rise to the level of fundamental constitutional rights. The dispensation of government benefits and preferences however, does call into play the principle of equal treatment under the laws.</p>
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		<title>By: SoloD</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/new_jersey_supremes_announce_right_to_same-sex_unions/comment-page-1/#comment-101876</link>
		<dc:creator>SoloD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Oct 2006 21:15:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/10/new_jersey_supremes_announce_right_to_same-sex_unions/#comment-101876</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;I mean, isn’t it clear that the state has developed an understanding that such hate speech by a conservative is no longer acceptable. The state legislature has 180 days to issue hunting licenses.&lt;/em&gt; 

Sorry John, we liberals don&#039;t believe in hunting either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>I mean, isn&rsquo;t it clear that the state has developed an understanding that such hate speech by a conservative is no longer acceptable. The state legislature has 180 days to issue hunting licenses.</em> </p>
<p>Sorry John, we liberals don't believe in hunting either.</p>
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		<title>By: Unpartisan.com Political News and Blog Aggregator</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/new_jersey_supremes_announce_right_to_same-sex_unions/comment-page-1/#comment-101874</link>
		<dc:creator>Unpartisan.com Political News and Blog Aggregator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Oct 2006 21:07:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/10/new_jersey_supremes_announce_right_to_same-sex_unions/#comment-101874</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;NJ court poised to rule on gay marriage 
   
...&lt;/strong&gt;

New Jersey could become the nation&#039;s gay wedding chapel should the state&#039;s highest court rule in fav...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>NJ court poised to rule on gay marriage </p>
<p>...</strong></p>
<p>New Jersey could become the nation's gay wedding chapel should the state's highest court rule in fav...</p>
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		<title>By: yetanotherjohn</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/new_jersey_supremes_announce_right_to_same-sex_unions/comment-page-1/#comment-101872</link>
		<dc:creator>yetanotherjohn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Oct 2006 20:47:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/10/new_jersey_supremes_announce_right_to_same-sex_unions/#comment-101872</guid>
		<description>Apparently the court recognizes the absurdity that the constitutional provision was meant to cover this.

New Jersey&#039;s marriage laws, which were first enacted in 1912, limit marriage to heterosexual couples. The
recently enacted Domestic Partnership Act explicitly acknowledges that same-sex couples cannot marry. Although
today there is a national debate over whether same-sex marriages should be authorized by the states, the framers of
the 1947 New Jersey Constitution could not have imagined that the liberty right protected by Article I, Paragraph 1
embraced same-sex marriage.

But they claim they can ignore this.

Times and attitudes have changed. There has been a developing understanding that discrimination against gays
and lesbians is no longer acceptable in this State. On the federal level, the United States Supreme Court has struck
down laws that have unconstitutionally targeted gays and lesbians for disparate treatment. Although plaintiffs rely
on the federal cases to support the argument that they have a fundamental right to marry under our State
Constitution, those cases fall far short of establishing a fundamental right to same-sex marriage &quot;deeply rooted in the
traditions, history, and conscience of the people of this State.&quot; Despite the rich diversity of this State, the tolerance
and goodness of its people, and the many recent advances made by gays and lesbians toward achieving social
acceptance and equality under the law, the Court cannot find that the right to same-sex marriage is a fundamental
right under our constitution.

So following that reasoning, they could still discriminate against polygamy because they will just say that the state hasn&#039;t developed an understanding that it is no longer unacceptable. The court has magic powers to throw out any laws they don&#039;t like if they think that the states has developed an understanding that being against such things are no longer acceptable.

So I figure that we can look forward to rulings that while the original intent of the constitution writers could not have imagined it, times have changed. Therefore it is legal to kill any conservative who says something you disagree with as part of preserving a leftist right to free speech. I mean, isn&#039;t it clear that the state has developed an understanding that such hate speech by a conservative is no longer acceptable. The state legislature has 180 days to issue hunting licenses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apparently the court recognizes the absurdity that the constitutional provision was meant to cover this.</p>
<p>New Jersey's marriage laws, which were first enacted in 1912, limit marriage to heterosexual couples. The<br />
recently enacted Domestic Partnership Act explicitly acknowledges that same-sex couples cannot marry. Although<br />
today there is a national debate over whether same-sex marriages should be authorized by the states, the framers of<br />
the 1947 New Jersey Constitution could not have imagined that the liberty right protected by Article I, Paragraph 1<br />
embraced same-sex marriage.</p>
<p>But they claim they can ignore this.</p>
<p>Times and attitudes have changed. There has been a developing understanding that discrimination against gays<br />
and lesbians is no longer acceptable in this State. On the federal level, the United States Supreme Court has struck<br />
down laws that have unconstitutionally targeted gays and lesbians for disparate treatment. Although plaintiffs rely<br />
on the federal cases to support the argument that they have a fundamental right to marry under our State<br />
Constitution, those cases fall far short of establishing a fundamental right to same-sex marriage "deeply rooted in the<br />
traditions, history, and conscience of the people of this State." Despite the rich diversity of this State, the tolerance<br />
and goodness of its people, and the many recent advances made by gays and lesbians toward achieving social<br />
acceptance and equality under the law, the Court cannot find that the right to same-sex marriage is a fundamental<br />
right under our constitution.</p>
<p>So following that reasoning, they could still discriminate against polygamy because they will just say that the state hasn't developed an understanding that it is no longer unacceptable. The court has magic powers to throw out any laws they don't like if they think that the states has developed an understanding that being against such things are no longer acceptable.</p>
<p>So I figure that we can look forward to rulings that while the original intent of the constitution writers could not have imagined it, times have changed. Therefore it is legal to kill any conservative who says something you disagree with as part of preserving a leftist right to free speech. I mean, isn't it clear that the state has developed an understanding that such hate speech by a conservative is no longer acceptable. The state legislature has 180 days to issue hunting licenses.</p>
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