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	<title>Comments on: No More Manned Fighter Jets?</title>
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	<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/no_more_manned_fighter_jets/</link>
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	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 22:10:32 -0600</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: mannning</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/no_more_manned_fighter_jets/comment-page-1/#comment-1100812</link>
		<dc:creator>mannning</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 20:28:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=39197#comment-1100812</guid>
		<description>I would have, but got sent South rather abruptly thinking I&#039;d get to visit Cuba. Neither happened--so I got another Florida T-Shirt instead!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would have, but got sent South rather abruptly thinking I'd get to visit Cuba. Neither happened--so I got another Florida T-Shirt instead!</p>
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		<title>By: DC Loser</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/no_more_manned_fighter_jets/comment-page-1/#comment-1100437</link>
		<dc:creator>DC Loser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 10:56:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=39197#comment-1100437</guid>
		<description>Been there, done that, didn&#039;t buy the T-shirt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Been there, done that, didn't buy the T-shirt.</p>
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		<title>By: mannning</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/no_more_manned_fighter_jets/comment-page-1/#comment-1099989</link>
		<dc:creator>mannning</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 03:52:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=39197#comment-1099989</guid>
		<description>Well, DCL, I have had quite a large number of tickets too, especially in the Community. But, as to beating you, I have no idea, and it isn&#039;t very important. 

In the past, I have &quot;roamed&quot; just about every AF, Army, and Navy development center, command centers and major intel shops there are, including the Pentagon, Omaha, the Springs, NATO, the UK, Germany and most other fine places here in the East. Except one--the White House. I was tired of living in vaults and SCIFs, too. 

Been in most aircraft shops, on projects, sometimes as PM or CSE, including Boeing, Lockheed, Northrup-Grumman and earlier, Douglas, and quite a few subsystem suppliers, such as Itek and GE, and maybe 30 others. 

I made my point, carefully: it was simply the place to stop.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, DCL, I have had quite a large number of tickets too, especially in the Community. But, as to beating you, I have no idea, and it isn't very important. </p>
<p>In the past, I have "roamed" just about every AF, Army, and Navy development center, command centers and major intel shops there are, including the Pentagon, Omaha, the Springs, NATO, the UK, Germany and most other fine places here in the East. Except one--the White House. I was tired of living in vaults and SCIFs, too. </p>
<p>Been in most aircraft shops, on projects, sometimes as PM or CSE, including Boeing, Lockheed, Northrup-Grumman and earlier, Douglas, and quite a few subsystem suppliers, such as Itek and GE, and maybe 30 others. </p>
<p>I made my point, carefully: it was simply the place to stop.</p>
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		<title>By: DC Loser</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/no_more_manned_fighter_jets/comment-page-1/#comment-1099771</link>
		<dc:creator>DC Loser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 00:50:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=39197#comment-1099771</guid>
		<description>Please....I have more tickets than you will ever have.  And Broken Arrow, Bent Spear incidents are pretty much public knowledge.  Don&#039;t put it out there if you can&#039;t bring it up in this forum.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please....I have more tickets than you will ever have.  And Broken Arrow, Bent Spear incidents are pretty much public knowledge.  Don't put it out there if you can't bring it up in this forum.</p>
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		<title>By: mannning</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/no_more_manned_fighter_jets/comment-page-1/#comment-1099152</link>
		<dc:creator>mannning</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 18:20:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=39197#comment-1099152</guid>
		<description>DC Loser, you know that is not on, and you know the several whys of it. Or, if you don&#039;t know the whys, that is simply too damn bad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DC Loser, you know that is not on, and you know the several whys of it. Or, if you don't know the whys, that is simply too damn bad.</p>
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		<title>By: DC Loser</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/no_more_manned_fighter_jets/comment-page-1/#comment-1098709</link>
		<dc:creator>DC Loser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 11:40:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=39197#comment-1098709</guid>
		<description>Pray tell, please enlighten us all with the details...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pray tell, please enlighten us all with the details...</p>
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		<title>By: mannning</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/no_more_manned_fighter_jets/comment-page-1/#comment-1098418</link>
		<dc:creator>mannning</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 04:25:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=39197#comment-1098418</guid>
		<description>No, I wasn&#039;t referring to the 50s and 60s. Never was apples and oranges either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, I wasn't referring to the 50s and 60s. Never was apples and oranges either.</p>
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		<title>By: DC Loser</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/no_more_manned_fighter_jets/comment-page-1/#comment-1097720</link>
		<dc:creator>DC Loser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 13:19:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=39197#comment-1097720</guid>
		<description>Manning - If you&#039;re refering to the loss of nuclear weapons in the 50s and 60s, then it&#039;s apples and oranges again.  Those were because of the then policy of flying aircraft on airborne alert with nuclear weapons.  That policy was overturned as a result of aircraft accidents.  I&#039;m not aware of SAC loss of nuclear weapons as a result of accounting procedures or such lack of discipline.  Nuclear surety was not an afterthought in those days, but the central tenet of the organization.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Manning - If you're refering to the loss of nuclear weapons in the 50s and 60s, then it's apples and oranges again.  Those were because of the then policy of flying aircraft on airborne alert with nuclear weapons.  That policy was overturned as a result of aircraft accidents.  I'm not aware of SAC loss of nuclear weapons as a result of accounting procedures or such lack of discipline.  Nuclear surety was not an afterthought in those days, but the central tenet of the organization.</p>
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		<title>By: mannning</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/no_more_manned_fighter_jets/comment-page-1/#comment-1097319</link>
		<dc:creator>mannning</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 02:41:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=39197#comment-1097319</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;...the USAF has been greatly neglecting that critical SIOP mission through the gradual relaxation of standards and tranining,... &lt;/blockquote&gt;

I guess that DC loser has not been privy to any earlier SAC booboo reports, some of which were hair-raisers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>...the USAF has been greatly neglecting that critical SIOP mission through the gradual relaxation of standards and tranining,... </p></blockquote>
<p>I guess that DC loser has not been privy to any earlier SAC booboo reports, some of which were hair-raisers.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: mannning</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/no_more_manned_fighter_jets/comment-page-1/#comment-1096925</link>
		<dc:creator>mannning</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 21:52:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=39197#comment-1096925</guid>
		<description>For one currently deployed version of the comm systems I referred to, Google JTIDS (Link 16).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For one currently deployed version of the comm systems I referred to, Google JTIDS (Link 16).</p>
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		<title>By: mannning</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/no_more_manned_fighter_jets/comment-page-1/#comment-1096866</link>
		<dc:creator>mannning</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 21:28:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=39197#comment-1096866</guid>
		<description>Finally, it would be hard to jam the internal avionics of either a drone or a manned plane. Comm and radar receivers can be hit, but under most circumstances that doesn&#039;t affect other electronics on board. Many times, however, the receivers merely shut down, and reopen when the high noise levels drop down.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Finally, it would be hard to jam the internal avionics of either a drone or a manned plane. Comm and radar receivers can be hit, but under most circumstances that doesn't affect other electronics on board. Many times, however, the receivers merely shut down, and reopen when the high noise levels drop down.</p>
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		<title>By: mannning</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/no_more_manned_fighter_jets/comment-page-1/#comment-1096851</link>
		<dc:creator>mannning</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 21:21:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=39197#comment-1096851</guid>
		<description>I believe the same holds for satellite-drone digital links as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe the same holds for satellite-drone digital links as well.</p>
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		<title>By: mannning</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/no_more_manned_fighter_jets/comment-page-1/#comment-1096832</link>
		<dc:creator>mannning</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 21:04:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=39197#comment-1096832</guid>
		<description>Modern, pseudo-random, digital, frequency-jumping communications systems are extremely resistant to jamming, and since they can exist in C, L, S and X bands where the enemy operates radar, to jam a whole band is for him largely to deny himself the band--which can be exploited quickly. So, the link from mothership to drone can be strongly secure using diverse and rapidly-changing frequencies (pulse by pulse), coupled with highly directional, multi-element antennas. 

Drones are also fitted with auto pilots which allow them to &quot;coast through&quot; periods of effective jamming or heavy noise, and be reaquired by the mothership later on, when the S/N ratio for the link recovers. 

Lacking recovery, the autopilot can fly the drone to any designated point within its range, and land it, or else destroy it on a target or in the air. This is true for the Predator, for instance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Modern, pseudo-random, digital, frequency-jumping communications systems are extremely resistant to jamming, and since they can exist in C, L, S and X bands where the enemy operates radar, to jam a whole band is for him largely to deny himself the band--which can be exploited quickly. So, the link from mothership to drone can be strongly secure using diverse and rapidly-changing frequencies (pulse by pulse), coupled with highly directional, multi-element antennas. </p>
<p>Drones are also fitted with auto pilots which allow them to "coast through" periods of effective jamming or heavy noise, and be reaquired by the mothership later on, when the S/N ratio for the link recovers. </p>
<p>Lacking recovery, the autopilot can fly the drone to any designated point within its range, and land it, or else destroy it on a target or in the air. This is true for the Predator, for instance.</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/no_more_manned_fighter_jets/comment-page-1/#comment-1095911</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 01:36:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=39197#comment-1095911</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I notice nobody has adequately addressed Wayne&#039;s point about the possibility that the electronic systems forming the link between UAVs and their remote controllers might be jammed. At that point, manned aircraft would be incredibly useful .&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Certainly true.  But presumably a system could jam the avionics on a human-driven aircraft.  And we&#039;re going to have a full fleet of human-driven fighters as a backup in case the drones go down?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I notice nobody has adequately addressed Wayne's point about the possibility that the electronic systems forming the link between UAVs and their remote controllers might be jammed. At that point, manned aircraft would be incredibly useful .</p></blockquote>
<p>Certainly true.  But presumably a system could jam the avionics on a human-driven aircraft.  And we're going to have a full fleet of human-driven fighters as a backup in case the drones go down?</p>
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		<title>By: James h</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/no_more_manned_fighter_jets/comment-page-1/#comment-1095759</link>
		<dc:creator>James h</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 23:32:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=39197#comment-1095759</guid>
		<description>I notice nobody has adequately addressed Wayne&#039;s point about the possibility that the electronic systems forming the link between UAVs and their remote controllers might be jammed.  At that point, manned aircraft would be incredibly useful ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I notice nobody has adequately addressed Wayne's point about the possibility that the electronic systems forming the link between UAVs and their remote controllers might be jammed.  At that point, manned aircraft would be incredibly useful ...</p>
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