Yeah, Bits. What could the fool possibly have been thinking of, encouraging the Germans to help us fight al-Qaida?

Christ.

Oh, please. I've been a p[art of and prompted enough shows to know what's what.

Yes, but I haven't. Unless you want us to take it as a matter of faith, we'll need some objective data.

Interesting hypothesis, can you post the calculations and data you used to reach that conclusion?

That's copyrighted, you owe me $0.02.

So bands that never drew a crowd more than a quarter of the Tiergarten attendance are worth three quarters,

Heh... had you forgotten that in those other venues, people were expected to PAY to hear the band(s)? Exactly why I said....

I don't know as I'd pay to see them, but free? I might.

That Mr. Henley, was a clue...

Interesting hypothesis, can you post the calculations and data you used to reach that conclusion?

Oh, please. I've been a p[art of and prompted enough shows to know what's what. ANd one thing more; Kennedy didn't need the help to attract crowds. Nor did Reagan. Now what do YOU suppose such bands were 'invited'?

Oh lord, will the whining never stop? Look, the left gives McCain credit where it is due. He was a stud in 'Nam. Obama is a rock star. Quit crying and deal with it.

What you apparently fail to understand is it IS being dealt with, by simply pointing up facts.

I see. You realize, of course, you are quite mad.

Interesting hypothesis, can you post the calculations and data you used to reach that conclusion?

One thing more; I got told the same thing when I said Bill Clinton was a grade-A liar,back in the early 90's, Given the reception of the Democrats to Hillary Clinton, it appears about half of them think my read on the matter wasn't so far off.

And thank you for taking the time to say so.

Credit where credit is due!

Without the bands, the beer and the food, the music, Obama wouldn't have drawn a quarter of what we're going to see him pictured with. All at the expense of the German taxpayer.

Supplementing Michael, 1) So bands that never drew a crowd more than a quarter of the Tiergarten attendance are worth three quarters, by your calc; 2) You're nevertheless saying that Obama, all on his own, could have drawn 50,000 people in Berlin.

As I suggested elsewhere, this adds 'consummate liar' to the list of negatives.

I see. You realize, of course, you are quite mad.

Without the bands, the beer and the food, the music, Obama wouldn't have drawn a quarter of what we're going to see him pictured with.

Interesting hypothesis, can you post the calculations and data you used to reach that conclusion?

Bithead: I honor you. Sincerely. You had the info. I confess to doubting you. I suspect your confreres in the thread could not have equaled your knowledge, but you brought it.

Yeah, I know. I get that rather a lot. It's always rewarding in ways I can't describe to you, when folks figure out I really do know what I'm talking about. And thank you for taking the time to say so.

I admit to having in this particular case, a slight advantage; I've always been a big music guy. Can't play a note (Sadly) but I do keep up with it. Old habit from 25 years of DJ'ing. Can't really be good at it without knowing what you're playing... or more correctly what's available to play.

In my opinion, the bands could not have drawn 200K attendees who would stay for the speech.

Without the bands, the beer and the food, the music, Obama wouldn't have drawn a quarter of what we're going to see him pictured with. All at the expense of the German taxpayer. Cute trick, that I could see people getting into morality discussions about, not to mention legal ones, ala Campaign financing.

Why isn't it enough to say, "Sure, he draws a big audience in Europe, but his policies are BAD

Because that's only part of the deal. As I suggested elsewhere, this adds 'consummate liar' to the list of negatives. Which, I suppose to be a large part of the reason that the defense on the issue to be so vehement.

I vote for the bar band in From Dusk 'till Dawn. He'd pull in quite the crowd with Salma Hayek as his lead dancer, too.

Anyway. Thank you. Further googling suggests that Summer Jam draws "40,000 to 50,000 people" every year. And of course, it's an annual show, with long lead times for promotion.

In my opinion, the bands could not have drawn 200K attendees who would stay for the speech. They don't have a track record of drawing six-figure crowds. With your background you've been to lots of concerts and festivals, so you've undoubtedly seen what happens to the people who came to see Act A whenever Act A finishes up and Act B comes on stage. Major, major audience turnover is the norm. But people stayed. I suspect Obama did the bands more good than they did him.

What I don't get is the bizarre compunction on the part of your compadres (IIRC, you didn't start it) to explain away the crowd. Why isn't it enough to say, "Sure, he draws a big audience in Europe, but his policies are BAD! Don't vote for him!" That seems like a perfectly honorable reaction.

The Archies* (or maybe Spinal Tap) and Tony Orlando and Dawn.

*and I do know, but I bet he doesn't.

Judging by the comments it seems the issue of how the German crowd was assembled strikes a nerve in a few people. I still don't see where the whiny comes in after reading my post again and again and again. I guess I'll hang my hat on petulant.

Now that I have that settled I can jump forward to the conclusion that whenever somebody attacks your point as "whiny and petulant" you can rest assured the substance was there and they had no good answer.