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	<title>Comments on: Obama:  California Dreamin&#8217;</title>
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	<description>Online Journal of Politics and Foreign Affairs</description>
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		<title>By: The Golden State &#124; Little Miss Attila</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/obama_california_dreamin/comment-page-1/#comment-1032026</link>
		<dc:creator>The Golden State &#124; Little Miss Attila</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 21:56:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=35222#comment-1032026</guid>
		<description>[...] . . . is in trouble. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] . . . is in trouble. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: odograph</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/obama_california_dreamin/comment-page-1/#comment-1032024</link>
		<dc:creator>odograph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 21:53:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=35222#comment-1032024</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;And don&#039;t conflate arguments about deficits with arguments about spending, they aren&#039;t the same thing.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I&#039;m a believer in counter-cyclical spending, which does imply higher deficits during the down-cycles in the economy.  Your expanded unemployment benefits are a form of automatic spending that produces that effect, and less spending and reduced deficit in the up-cycle.

Now, how much to spend in the down-cycle is a harder question, but I think it is at least reasonable to think that it will be more in harder down-cycles, and less in milder ones.

I think the hopes that this might be a mild, or even a typical, recession have been dashed.

(If we want to go back to the errors of the Bush administration, one would be that they pushed strong deficit spending during a (mild) recovery.  They never produced that counter-cyclical surplus. That&#039;s the reason we ride into this Great Recession with our pockets empty.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>And don't conflate arguments about deficits with arguments about spending, they aren't the same thing.</p></blockquote>
<p>I'm a believer in counter-cyclical spending, which does imply higher deficits during the down-cycles in the economy.  Your expanded unemployment benefits are a form of automatic spending that produces that effect, and less spending and reduced deficit in the up-cycle.</p>
<p>Now, how much to spend in the down-cycle is a harder question, but I think it is at least reasonable to think that it will be more in harder down-cycles, and less in milder ones.</p>
<p>I think the hopes that this might be a mild, or even a typical, recession have been dashed.</p>
<p>(If we want to go back to the errors of the Bush administration, one would be that they pushed strong deficit spending during a (mild) recovery.  They never produced that counter-cyclical surplus. That's the reason we ride into this Great Recession with our pockets empty.)</p>
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		<title>By: charles austin</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/obama_california_dreamin/comment-page-1/#comment-1031991</link>
		<dc:creator>charles austin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 20:37:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=35222#comment-1031991</guid>
		<description>Yes, I absolutely oppose spending to prop up failed enterprises.  It is throwing good money after bad.  You want to extend unemployment benefits?  Good idea, go for it.  You want to throw money at bad banks and manufacturers.  Really bad idea.  It isn&#039;t going to make matters better, but worse.

And don&#039;t conflate arguments about deficits with arguments about spending, they aren&#039;t the same thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I absolutely oppose spending to prop up failed enterprises.  It is throwing good money after bad.  You want to extend unemployment benefits?  Good idea, go for it.  You want to throw money at bad banks and manufacturers.  Really bad idea.  It isn't going to make matters better, but worse.</p>
<p>And don't conflate arguments about deficits with arguments about spending, they aren't the same thing.</p>
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		<title>By: odograph</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/obama_california_dreamin/comment-page-1/#comment-1031988</link>
		<dc:creator>odograph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 20:31:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=35222#comment-1031988</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Sadly, before things get much better you may be wishing for only ten big bank failures and 15% unemployment.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

And yet, at the same time, you oppose spending.  Is there any economic logic for withholding spending in this kind of downturn?

It seems to me you are saying you &lt;i&gt;choose&lt;/i&gt; the hard bottom, with no counter-cyclical brakes applied.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Sadly, before things get much better you may be wishing for only ten big bank failures and 15% unemployment.</p></blockquote>
<p>And yet, at the same time, you oppose spending.  Is there any economic logic for withholding spending in this kind of downturn?</p>
<p>It seems to me you are saying you <i>choose</i> the hard bottom, with no counter-cyclical brakes applied.</p>
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		<title>By: charles austin</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/obama_california_dreamin/comment-page-1/#comment-1031987</link>
		<dc:creator>charles austin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 20:29:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=35222#comment-1031987</guid>
		<description>Oh, and I meant to say it twice.  Does that make me a double-plus ungood person?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and I meant to say it twice.  Does that make me a double-plus ungood person?</p>
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		<title>By: charles austin</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/obama_california_dreamin/comment-page-1/#comment-1031986</link>
		<dc:creator>charles austin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 20:28:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=35222#comment-1031986</guid>
		<description>odograph, I concur that we are screwed because neither party has the courage to let the market correct itself.  I believe the word you are looking for is hubris.  Sadly, before things get much better you may be wishing for only ten big bank failures and 15% unemployment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>odograph, I concur that we are screwed because neither party has the courage to let the market correct itself.  I believe the word you are looking for is hubris.  Sadly, before things get much better you may be wishing for only ten big bank failures and 15% unemployment.</p>
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		<title>By: charles austin</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/obama_california_dreamin/comment-page-1/#comment-1031984</link>
		<dc:creator>charles austin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 20:25:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=35222#comment-1031984</guid>
		<description>Wow odograph, the IMF&#039;s projections put us all the way back to where we were in late 2007.  I guess that justifies anything President Obama wants to do, is that it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow odograph, the IMF's projections put us all the way back to where we were in late 2007.  I guess that justifies anything President Obama wants to do, is that it?</p>
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		<title>By: odograph</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/obama_california_dreamin/comment-page-1/#comment-1031983</link>
		<dc:creator>odograph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 20:25:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=35222#comment-1031983</guid>
		<description>Charles, you said &quot;so-called Stimulus&quot; twice.

Explain to me the other path, the one no politician of either party was willing to take, without &quot;called or not&quot; Stimulus, and how it would work?

Would you just tough it out through 10 big bank failures and 15% unemployment?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Charles, you said "so-called Stimulus" twice.</p>
<p>Explain to me the other path, the one no politician of either party was willing to take, without "called or not" Stimulus, and how it would work?</p>
<p>Would you just tough it out through 10 big bank failures and 15% unemployment?</p>
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		<title>By: charles austin</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/obama_california_dreamin/comment-page-1/#comment-1031982</link>
		<dc:creator>charles austin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 20:23:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=35222#comment-1031982</guid>
		<description>smurfyhoser, you do realize that some of us that didn&#039;t vote for President Obama despised Bush&#039;s spending sprees as well, right?  Maybe we aren&#039;t just being hostile to it because it is President Obama advocating it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>smurfyhoser, you do realize that some of us that didn't vote for President Obama despised Bush's spending sprees as well, right?  Maybe we aren't just being hostile to it because it is President Obama advocating it.</p>
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		<title>By: charles austin</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/obama_california_dreamin/comment-page-1/#comment-1031981</link>
		<dc:creator>charles austin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 20:21:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=35222#comment-1031981</guid>
		<description>odograph, seriously now, President Obama got his $870B deficit spending spree -- that&#039;s billion with a b -- and now wants to find ways to save $100M -- that&#039;s million with an m -- and expects to be taken seriously?  If his cabinet found $100M every single day for the next year rather than once in the next ninety days that would constitute 4.2% of the so-called Stimulus package -- which (did I mention this before?) is necessarily all deficit spending, so the true bill with interest is much, much higher.

It&#039;s a bad, bad joke and if you want to be taken seriously you might want to think how much effort you want to put into trying to defend it. If you think $100M is a good test case for saving money before trying something more meaningful, why not rescind the so-called Stimulus package and instead pass one of about $8B or so and let&#039;s see how it works before deciding to bet the farm... and the factory... and the finanical system... and the schools... and our future...?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>odograph, seriously now, President Obama got his $870B deficit spending spree -- that's billion with a b -- and now wants to find ways to save $100M -- that's million with an m -- and expects to be taken seriously?  If his cabinet found $100M every single day for the next year rather than once in the next ninety days that would constitute 4.2% of the so-called Stimulus package -- which (did I mention this before?) is necessarily all deficit spending, so the true bill with interest is much, much higher.</p>
<p>It's a bad, bad joke and if you want to be taken seriously you might want to think how much effort you want to put into trying to defend it. If you think $100M is a good test case for saving money before trying something more meaningful, why not rescind the so-called Stimulus package and instead pass one of about $8B or so and let's see how it works before deciding to bet the farm... and the factory... and the finanical system... and the schools... and our future...?</p>
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		<title>By: Smurfyhoser</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/obama_california_dreamin/comment-page-1/#comment-1031979</link>
		<dc:creator>Smurfyhoser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 20:19:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=35222#comment-1031979</guid>
		<description>Yeah, $100 million is about the same as Jindal&#039;s volcano monitoring he complained about. 

And Obama&#039;s only, what, 3 months in? So at this rate perhaps he&#039;ll continue to find new ways to cut spending at about $400 million a year = $1.6 billion over term 1. Slacker. You should see how much GWB cut when he was in office!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, $100 million is about the same as Jindal's volcano monitoring he complained about. </p>
<p>And Obama's only, what, 3 months in? So at this rate perhaps he'll continue to find new ways to cut spending at about $400 million a year = $1.6 billion over term 1. Slacker. You should see how much GWB cut when he was in office!</p>
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		<title>By: odograph</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/obama_california_dreamin/comment-page-1/#comment-1031975</link>
		<dc:creator>odograph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 20:09:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=35222#comment-1031975</guid>
		<description>BTW, you understand that we are now in a world-wide contraction?

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20090423.RTICKERA23ART1935-1/TPStory/Business&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;IMF sees steepest drop in global activity in 60 years&lt;/a&gt;

At least try to put &quot;spending&quot; in that context.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTW, you understand that we are now in a world-wide contraction?</p>
<p><a href="http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20090423.RTICKERA23ART1935-1/TPStory/Business" rel="nofollow">IMF sees steepest drop in global activity in 60 years</a></p>
<p>At least try to put "spending" in that context.</p>
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		<title>By: odograph</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/obama_california_dreamin/comment-page-1/#comment-1031972</link>
		<dc:creator>odograph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 20:00:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=35222#comment-1031972</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I am generally in favor of any budget cuts and trying to spend the money that is allocated more efficiently, so on one hand I think asking them to make the cuts is a good thing. I think the disconnect comes when you consider the budget as a whole and the spending that is proposed.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The budget needs, to borrow a term from the computer science domain, to be refactored.

If they are serious they&#039;ll do this $100M, and then keep going.  Given the complex nature of spending, with congressional micromanagement down to which part of which plane is built in which state ... there&#039;s the possibility that this kind of thing needs to be a permanent ongoing process.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I am generally in favor of any budget cuts and trying to spend the money that is allocated more efficiently, so on one hand I think asking them to make the cuts is a good thing. I think the disconnect comes when you consider the budget as a whole and the spending that is proposed.</p></blockquote>
<p>The budget needs, to borrow a term from the computer science domain, to be refactored.</p>
<p>If they are serious they'll do this $100M, and then keep going.  Given the complex nature of spending, with congressional micromanagement down to which part of which plane is built in which state ... there's the possibility that this kind of thing needs to be a permanent ongoing process.</p>
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		<title>By: odograph</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/obama_california_dreamin/comment-page-1/#comment-1031967</link>
		<dc:creator>odograph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 19:55:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=35222#comment-1031967</guid>
		<description>You can&#039;t do cuts without a workable political process to do cuts.  They are forming a system, taking it for a run ... and &quot;conservatives&quot; complain.  Go figure.

What you&#039;d be happier if they just didn&#039;t try?

Because if your attitude is that they should go further, than you rational position should be &quot;Fine, thanks, what&#039;s next?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You can't do cuts without a workable political process to do cuts.  They are forming a system, taking it for a run ... and "conservatives" complain.  Go figure.</p>
<p>What you'd be happier if they just didn't try?</p>
<p>Because if your attitude is that they should go further, than you rational position should be "Fine, thanks, what's next?"</p>
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		<title>By: sam</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/obama_california_dreamin/comment-page-1/#comment-1031964</link>
		<dc:creator>sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 19:54:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=35222#comment-1031964</guid>
		<description>@Bit

&lt;blockquote&gt;Obama looked at the Tea Party protests and recognized&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Stop it. You made me blow Pepsi through my nose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Bit</p>
<blockquote><p>Obama looked at the Tea Party protests and recognized</p></blockquote>
<p>Stop it. You made me blow Pepsi through my nose.</p>
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