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	<title>Comments on: Obama Halts Guantanamo Trials</title>
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	<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/obama_halts_guantanamo_trials/</link>
	<description>Online Journal of Politics and Foreign Affairs</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 05:37:08 -0600</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Phil Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/obama_halts_guantanamo_trials/comment-page-1/#comment-669745</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 03:20:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=30329#comment-669745</guid>
		<description>You gentlemen are making me work too hard.  The assertion that the commissions are not subject to judicial review is &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/13/washington/12cnd-gitmo.html?_r=2&amp;hp&amp;oref=slogin&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;false&lt;/a&gt;.

And it turns out that compulsory self-incrimination is &lt;a href=&quot;http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c109:4:./temp/~c109Ndvmwt:e21563:&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;prohibited&lt;/a&gt;.  

&quot;Evidence obtained via coercion&quot; is only allowed if, among other things, it is the opinion of the presiding judge that &quot;the totality of the circumstances renders the statement reliable and possessing sufficient probative value&quot;.  I do not agree that coerced confessions are admissable under this act, based on the text of the law itself, and subsequent SC clarification.  The criticisms of the commissions presented here are 0 for 2.  

So again, what is the rationale for suspending the commissions?  The reasons given so far are specious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You gentlemen are making me work too hard.  The assertion that the commissions are not subject to judicial review is <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/13/washington/12cnd-gitmo.html?_r=2&amp;hp&amp;oref=slogin" rel="nofollow">false</a>.</p>
<p>And it turns out that compulsory self-incrimination is <a href="http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c109:4:./temp/~c109Ndvmwt:e21563:" rel="nofollow">prohibited</a>.  </p>
<p>"Evidence obtained via coercion" is only allowed if, among other things, it is the opinion of the presiding judge that "the totality of the circumstances renders the statement reliable and possessing sufficient probative value".  I do not agree that coerced confessions are admissable under this act, based on the text of the law itself, and subsequent SC clarification.  The criticisms of the commissions presented here are 0 for 2.  </p>
<p>So again, what is the rationale for suspending the commissions?  The reasons given so far are specious.</p>
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		<title>By: Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/obama_halts_guantanamo_trials/comment-page-1/#comment-668826</link>
		<dc:creator>Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 01:49:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=30329#comment-668826</guid>
		<description>Phil, the Gitmo judges have a great deal of discretion whether to admit evidence obtained via coercion; the judge you cite ruled one way, but would have been difficult to reverse had he ruled the other way.

There&#039;ve been several news items on FBI efforts to reconstruct the cases vs. KSM etc. w/out tainted evidence.  Apparently it hasn&#039;t been easy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Phil, the Gitmo judges have a great deal of discretion whether to admit evidence obtained via coercion; the judge you cite ruled one way, but would have been difficult to reverse had he ruled the other way.</p>
<p>There've been several news items on FBI efforts to reconstruct the cases vs. KSM etc. w/out tainted evidence.  Apparently it hasn't been easy.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/obama_halts_guantanamo_trials/comment-page-1/#comment-667967</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 23:45:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=30329#comment-667967</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;coerced confessions are admissable&lt;/blockquote&gt;That doesn&#039;t appear to be &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/oct/29/guantanamo-constitutionandcivilliberties&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;correct&lt;/a&gt;.  I&#039;m not going to research whether judicial review is allowed, because it doesn&#039;t in any way obviate the fact that President Obama could, if his 120 day study leads him to believe it appropriate, commute the sentence.

And you didn&#039;t address the SCOTUS decisions or recent legislation on this matter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>coerced confessions are admissable</p></blockquote>
<p>That doesn't appear to be <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/oct/29/guantanamo-constitutionandcivilliberties" rel="nofollow">correct</a>.  I'm not going to research whether judicial review is allowed, because it doesn't in any way obviate the fact that President Obama could, if his 120 day study leads him to believe it appropriate, commute the sentence.</p>
<p>And you didn't address the SCOTUS decisions or recent legislation on this matter.</p>
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		<title>By: tom p</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/obama_halts_guantanamo_trials/comment-page-1/#comment-667556</link>
		<dc:creator>tom p</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 23:11:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=30329#comment-667556</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I&#039;m clearly missing some highly nuanced point. I have always thought that the point of trials (or one of the points) was to adjudicate the facts or the &quot;particulars of each case&quot;. Precisely how does delaying the process of adjudicating the facts assist in correcting Bush&#039;s misdeeds? Wouldn&#039;t justice be best served by allowing the tribunals to continue, with appropriate judicial and Executive review afterwards, or even concurrently?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Phil, the problem is the very process itself. These military commissions are little more than &quot;kangaroo courts&quot;. Where evidence (secret intel) is introduced that the defendant is not allowed to hear or see (so he has no chance of challenging it) and coerced confessions are admissable.

To top it all off, as the MC&#039;s are set up, there is no judicial review.

In other words, if the president says you are guilty, you are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I'm clearly missing some highly nuanced point. I have always thought that the point of trials (or one of the points) was to adjudicate the facts or the "particulars of each case". Precisely how does delaying the process of adjudicating the facts assist in correcting Bush's misdeeds? Wouldn't justice be best served by allowing the tribunals to continue, with appropriate judicial and Executive review afterwards, or even concurrently?</p></blockquote>
<p>Phil, the problem is the very process itself. These military commissions are little more than "kangaroo courts". Where evidence (secret intel) is introduced that the defendant is not allowed to hear or see (so he has no chance of challenging it) and coerced confessions are admissable.</p>
<p>To top it all off, as the MC's are set up, there is no judicial review.</p>
<p>In other words, if the president says you are guilty, you are.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/obama_halts_guantanamo_trials/comment-page-1/#comment-667545</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 22:55:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=30329#comment-667545</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m clearly missing some highly nuanced point.  I have always thought that the point of trials (or one of the points) was to adjudicate the facts or the &quot;particulars of each case&quot;.  Precisely how does delaying the process of adjudicating the facts assist in correcting Bush&#039;s misdeeds?  Wouldn&#039;t justice be best served by allowing the tribunals to continue, with appropriate judicial and Executive review afterwards, or even concurrently?

And haven&#039;t we had a number of SCOTUS decisions handed down, and laws passed by Congress on this very topic?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'm clearly missing some highly nuanced point.  I have always thought that the point of trials (or one of the points) was to adjudicate the facts or the "particulars of each case".  Precisely how does delaying the process of adjudicating the facts assist in correcting Bush's misdeeds?  Wouldn't justice be best served by allowing the tribunals to continue, with appropriate judicial and Executive review afterwards, or even concurrently?</p>
<p>And haven't we had a number of SCOTUS decisions handed down, and laws passed by Congress on this very topic?</p>
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		<title>By: just me</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/obama_halts_guantanamo_trials/comment-page-1/#comment-666583</link>
		<dc:creator>just me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 20:47:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=30329#comment-666583</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Probably because the specific facts of the cases in question were classified and unavailable to the Obama team until now.&lt;/em&gt;

I am willing to bet he had access to this information once he was elected.  AFter all there are briefings on classified information given during the transition period.

I lean more towards tom p&#039;s answer.  My guess is that the issue is far more complex than campaign rhetoric allowed for, and he is trying to figure out a way to keep his promise in light of the fact that it isn&#039;t all that easily kept.

Closing Gitmo is the easy part-figuring out what to do with the detainees-some of whom aren&#039;t innocent, is the hard part-especially when you can&#039;t send them back to their country of origin and bringing them to US soil will likely result in a revolt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Probably because the specific facts of the cases in question were classified and unavailable to the Obama team until now.</em></p>
<p>I am willing to bet he had access to this information once he was elected.  AFter all there are briefings on classified information given during the transition period.</p>
<p>I lean more towards tom p's answer.  My guess is that the issue is far more complex than campaign rhetoric allowed for, and he is trying to figure out a way to keep his promise in light of the fact that it isn't all that easily kept.</p>
<p>Closing Gitmo is the easy part-figuring out what to do with the detainees-some of whom aren't innocent, is the hard part-especially when you can't send them back to their country of origin and bringing them to US soil will likely result in a revolt.</p>
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		<title>By: dutchmarbel</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/obama_halts_guantanamo_trials/comment-page-1/#comment-665931</link>
		<dc:creator>dutchmarbel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 19:34:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=30329#comment-665931</guid>
		<description>They might also need time to negotiate with other countries about where the detainees could go to if they are freed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They might also need time to negotiate with other countries about where the detainees could go to if they are freed.</p>
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		<title>By: tom p</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/obama_halts_guantanamo_trials/comment-page-1/#comment-665358</link>
		<dc:creator>tom p</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 16:58:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=30329#comment-665358</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;It’s not clear why they need six months to study something that’s been a subject of controversy for years.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Probably because the specific facts of the cases in question were classified and unavailable to the Obama team until now.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Actually I suspect it&#039;s because there is no &quot;one size fits all solution&quot;. The particulars of each case will dictate the way forward in each case.
&lt;blockquote&gt;This situation is no different. He wants to match his actions to his rethoric, but there&#039;s no way to do that. He&#039;s delaying six months while he and those under him scrable to find a way. They will fail, and once again, Bush policy will prevail in the matter. &lt;/blockquote&gt;
Hahahaheehee... Bit, you crack me up. Bush policy is the trap Obama has fallen into, as he always knew he would.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><blockquote>It&rsquo;s not clear why they need six months to study something that&rsquo;s been a subject of controversy for years.</p></blockquote>
<p>Probably because the specific facts of the cases in question were classified and unavailable to the Obama team until now.</p></blockquote>
<p>Actually I suspect it's because there is no "one size fits all solution". The particulars of each case will dictate the way forward in each case.</p>
<blockquote><p>This situation is no different. He wants to match his actions to his rethoric, but there's no way to do that. He's delaying six months while he and those under him scrable to find a way. They will fail, and once again, Bush policy will prevail in the matter. </p></blockquote>
<p>Hahahaheehee... Bit, you crack me up. Bush policy is the trap Obama has fallen into, as he always knew he would.</p>
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		<title>By: Triumph</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/obama_halts_guantanamo_trials/comment-page-1/#comment-665340</link>
		<dc:creator>Triumph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 16:21:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=30329#comment-665340</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;President Obama’s first significant act as chief executive was to order a halt to the military tribunals at Gitmo.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That should be rephrased to read: &quot;His first significant act was to release his terrorist buddies into the wild and help them maraud and pillage Americans in the service of his Kenyan overlord, Adewale Ogunleye.&quot;

Get ready everybody.  Unless Cheney can pull a miracle, its going to be  a long 4 years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>President Obama&rsquo;s first significant act as chief executive was to order a halt to the military tribunals at Gitmo.</p></blockquote>
<p>That should be rephrased to read: "His first significant act was to release his terrorist buddies into the wild and help them maraud and pillage Americans in the service of his Kenyan overlord, Adewale Ogunleye."</p>
<p>Get ready everybody.  Unless Cheney can pull a miracle, its going to be  a long 4 years.</p>
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		<title>By: PD Shaw</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/obama_halts_guantanamo_trials/comment-page-1/#comment-665235</link>
		<dc:creator>PD Shaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 15:59:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=30329#comment-665235</guid>
		<description>There is no right to a speedy trial.
There is no right to a trial.
Six Months, Six Years, Six Decades, who cares?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is no right to a speedy trial.<br />
There is no right to a trial.<br />
Six Months, Six Years, Six Decades, who cares?</p>
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		<title>By: caj</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/obama_halts_guantanamo_trials/comment-page-1/#comment-665230</link>
		<dc:creator>caj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 15:49:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=30329#comment-665230</guid>
		<description>President Obama is in charge now and has the right to do what he feels is necessary in these cases, we know so many things have been done incorrectly to say the least by Bush.
He is starting with his own ideas and not those left behind by Bush.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>President Obama is in charge now and has the right to do what he feels is necessary in these cases, we know so many things have been done incorrectly to say the least by Bush.<br />
He is starting with his own ideas and not those left behind by Bush.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Knapp</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/obama_halts_guantanamo_trials/comment-page-1/#comment-665227</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Knapp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 15:41:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=30329#comment-665227</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;It’s not clear why they need six months to study something that’s been a subject of controversy for years.&lt;/blockquote&gt;Probably because the specific facts of the cases in question were classified and unavailable to the Obama team until now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>It&rsquo;s not clear why they need six months to study something that&rsquo;s been a subject of controversy for years.</p></blockquote>
<p>Probably because the specific facts of the cases in question were classified and unavailable to the Obama team until now.</p>
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		<title>By: Bithead</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/obama_halts_guantanamo_trials/comment-page-1/#comment-665124</link>
		<dc:creator>Bithead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 15:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=30329#comment-665124</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;It’s not clear why they need six months to study something that’s been a subject of controversy for years.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Oh, yes it is.
It&#039;s called reality, spoiling the well-inetntioned plans of the left, once again.  As I indeicated in my &lt;a href=&quot;http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/will-obamas-anti-terror-policies-vindicate-bush/2/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Pajamas Media piece &lt;/a&gt;this morning:

&lt;blockquote&gt;As President Obama and his people are briefed on what has been happening in the world these last eight years, the insider’s view has given them a completely new perspective on what to do about the situation, resulting in completely different actions as compared to the ones they were telling everyone they would take once they were given the power.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

This situation is no different. He wants to match his actions to his rethoric, but there&#039;s no way to do that. He&#039;s delaying six months while he and those under him scrable to find a way. They will fail, and once again, Bush policy will prevail in the matter. 

Of course, being 6 months (or longer) down the road by the time a move is actually forced, it will be out of the spotlight, and so not so much of a political problem with the far left, anymore.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>It&rsquo;s not clear why they need six months to study something that&rsquo;s been a subject of controversy for years.</p></blockquote>
<p>Oh, yes it is.<br />
It's called reality, spoiling the well-inetntioned plans of the left, once again.  As I indeicated in my <a href="http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/will-obamas-anti-terror-policies-vindicate-bush/2/" rel="nofollow">Pajamas Media piece </a>this morning:</p>
<blockquote><p>As President Obama and his people are briefed on what has been happening in the world these last eight years, the insider&rsquo;s view has given them a completely new perspective on what to do about the situation, resulting in completely different actions as compared to the ones they were telling everyone they would take once they were given the power.</p></blockquote>
<p>This situation is no different. He wants to match his actions to his rethoric, but there's no way to do that. He's delaying six months while he and those under him scrable to find a way. They will fail, and once again, Bush policy will prevail in the matter. </p>
<p>Of course, being 6 months (or longer) down the road by the time a move is actually forced, it will be out of the spotlight, and so not so much of a political problem with the far left, anymore.</p>
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