Exactly. Normally we 'secretly' talk to all nations, and then 'officially' talk to them long after we've already figured out what to do and both us and them have figured out how to come out of any agreements looking like we 'won', and no president can or should change that. (While I'm normally in favor of openness in the government, this is one area that I agree the process should remained somewhat opaque, so countries can make concessions without appearing to make concessions.)

However, it's worth pointing out that, under Bush, we haven't been talking to our enemies, and that's gotten us nowhere.

For example, is in the media ever going to look into the fact that Saddam was actually negotiating for exile and immunity from prosecution, for himself and his sons, with other Arab nations, when he realized we were serious about invading, and it is entirely possible we could have taken over the nation at the topmost level peacefully? (Which also would have helped with Baath insurgents hanging around, although those are frankly the least of our problems there.) But, no, we didn't want to negotiate with him, we needed WAR.

So the fact that recently we haven't been talking to our enemies and that has caused problems make McCain (and Clinton) look particularly tone-deaf for demanding we not talk to them and Obama intelligent for demanding we do. Despite the fact that, policy-wise, they'll be exactly the same, we'll 'not talk' to nations for years, and then 'suddenly', we'll enter into talks with them and manage to hammer out an agreement before lunch that makes both of us look good to our own people. An agreement that was printed up well in advance, but we all agree to ignore that.

Your president has been lying to you through his teeth. Thousands of our troops. Tens of thousands dead in Iraq. Hundreds of billions of dollars badly needed here poured down a rat hole.

Yet you don't seem to be upset at all.

If Obama is elected, we will find out if he is up to it. Same as it is for McCain. Looking good on paper is not what counts, if it were GHW Bush would be on Mt. Rushmore now.

You are saying Obama would be four more years of Bush?

G Bush, yesterday:

With Saddam gone, our job was to help the Iraqi people defend themselves against the extremists and to build a free society. In 2006, that mission was faltering.

G Bush press conference on October 25, 2006:

Q Are we winning?

THE PRESIDENT: Absolutely, we're winning.

Liar or ignorant boob? You be the judge...

So James, what you are basically counting on is if Obama is elected he will prove himself to be a liar and not do what he says he will do.

Most presidential candidates, and especially those who are Washington neophytes, campaign as if they can unilaterally change the system much more than they really can.

Read it and edify yourself.

Point taken Zel. Its just I don't have as much time as I used to and trying to keep up with the ever changing reasons for the war is so time consuming and a little pointless. As soon as one reason is proved bogus, they've another in the pipeline ready to roll and a willing bozo lined up to hype it.

Likewise, McCain is trying to further burnish his “tough guy” persona by making it appear that he would refuse to meet with the “bad guys”

Amazing to think that McCain's strengths were supposed to be around defence and foreign policy. He has badly lost this argument over the last few days and he knows it.

McCain has no reason to play 'tough guy'. He's the real thing, but the country is tired of that particular 'persona' and associates it with Bush and his failed wars and policies. We're looking for someone who shows 'smarts', who can out-think the enemy and plan beyond the disastrous tactics of the last seven years.

For a majority of us, a majority which includes the present Secretary Of Defence, Secretary of State and General Patraeus, talking to our enemies makes sense. It made sense to McCain two years ago, but for some bizarre reason he now seems to think that following Bush's lead is a smart political move.

It isn't, and if he continues down this track, Obama will win. Bet your house on it.