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	<title>Comments on: On the Conservative Movement</title>
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		<title>By: Lisa</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/on_the_conservative_movement/comment-page-1/#comment-989366</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 07:18:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=32519#comment-989366</guid>
		<description>If neither side will listen, maybe it&#039;s because they are not us!  Has anyone stopped to think that America has become a different country with different values based on a slow, but steady inflow from radically different cultures?  Soon, 50% of the voters will pay no taxes and get checks back from the government, i.e. you and I.  There is no going back and all of the intellectual debate between conservatives and libertarians is now just noise.  They, the check receivers, don&#039;t care, as long as they get their check.  There is a slow but sure awakening out there of this fact as evidenced by the stock market.  The taxpayers are withdrawing their funds and liquidating all that they can.  They may not have a place to go yet, but as the world sinks into economic decay, those with money and a good work ethic will be welcome almost anywhere else in the world.  It happened before in our history, the Scots-irish emegration en masse from England to N Ireland and then to America 100 years latter.  Maybe America&#039;s time is past and it&#039;s time to move on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If neither side will listen, maybe it's because they are not us!  Has anyone stopped to think that America has become a different country with different values based on a slow, but steady inflow from radically different cultures?  Soon, 50% of the voters will pay no taxes and get checks back from the government, i.e. you and I.  There is no going back and all of the intellectual debate between conservatives and libertarians is now just noise.  They, the check receivers, don't care, as long as they get their check.  There is a slow but sure awakening out there of this fact as evidenced by the stock market.  The taxpayers are withdrawing their funds and liquidating all that they can.  They may not have a place to go yet, but as the world sinks into economic decay, those with money and a good work ethic will be welcome almost anywhere else in the world.  It happened before in our history, the Scots-irish emegration en masse from England to N Ireland and then to America 100 years latter.  Maybe America's time is past and it's time to move on.</p>
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		<title>By: hpb</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/on_the_conservative_movement/comment-page-1/#comment-987200</link>
		<dc:creator>hpb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 03:39:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=32519#comment-987200</guid>
		<description>Moving to the left, back towards the apex of the Laffer curve, would increase tax revenues. But the question is really what to cut.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Moving to the left, back towards the apex of the Laffer curve, would increase tax revenues. But the question is really what to cut.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/on_the_conservative_movement/comment-page-1/#comment-987065</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 23:53:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=32519#comment-987065</guid>
		<description>hpb,
   Those are very good specific proposals on what taxes to cut.  Now how are you going to pay for it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hpb,<br />
   Those are very good specific proposals on what taxes to cut.  Now how are you going to pay for it?</p>
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		<title>By: hpb</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/on_the_conservative_movement/comment-page-1/#comment-987022</link>
		<dc:creator>hpb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 22:20:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=32519#comment-987022</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;How is that not a vision? How is that not a good hunk of conservative/libertarian philosophy in a nutshell (at least economically): less government?&lt;/blockquote&gt;
The problem is that &quot;less government&quot; is not really a description of anything. The same goes for &quot;cut taxes&quot; and &quot;less regulation&quot;. Unless you can tell people specifically where and by how much, it&#039;s just platitudes.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
How about &lt;a href=&quot;http://blog.heritage.org/2009/03/04/it%E2%80%99s-time-for-a-pro-growth-economic-policy/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this&lt;/a&gt;?
&lt;blockquote&gt;Implement a pro-growth tax policy. Instead of raising taxes, he would lower taxes to &lt;b&gt;25% for the top marginal income tax rate&lt;/b&gt;, and combine all the other brackets to a &lt;b&gt;10% tax rate on the first $100,000 for couples&lt;/b&gt;. He would also &lt;b&gt;lower the top corporate tax rate&lt;/b&gt;, and &lt;b&gt;eliminate the capital gains tax&lt;/b&gt;. This would increase, rather than suppress, the incentives to work, save, and invest.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
How about 25% for the top corporate tax rate? &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.looktruenorth.com/limited-government/taxation/7183-maximizing-corporate-taxes.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;link&lt;/a&gt;, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.looktruenorth.com/limited-government/taxation/7183-maximizing-corporate-taxes.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;link&lt;/a&gt;

There are lots and lots of variations on the themes: flat tax, fair tax, etc. Regulation issues are similar. There are plenty of particulars out there. Unfortunately, I think too many folks just glaze over at the specifics and cry, &quot;All I ever hear is “tax cuts!” and “less regulation!”&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><blockquote>How is that not a vision? How is that not a good hunk of conservative/libertarian philosophy in a nutshell (at least economically): less government?</p></blockquote>
<p>The problem is that "less government" is not really a description of anything. The same goes for "cut taxes" and "less regulation". Unless you can tell people specifically where and by how much, it's just platitudes.</p></blockquote>
<p>How about <a href="http://blog.heritage.org/2009/03/04/it%E2%80%99s-time-for-a-pro-growth-economic-policy/" rel="nofollow">this</a>?</p>
<blockquote><p>Implement a pro-growth tax policy. Instead of raising taxes, he would lower taxes to <b>25% for the top marginal income tax rate</b>, and combine all the other brackets to a <b>10% tax rate on the first $100,000 for couples</b>. He would also <b>lower the top corporate tax rate</b>, and <b>eliminate the capital gains tax</b>. This would increase, rather than suppress, the incentives to work, save, and invest.</p></blockquote>
<p>How about 25% for the top corporate tax rate? <a href="http://www.looktruenorth.com/limited-government/taxation/7183-maximizing-corporate-taxes.html" rel="nofollow">link</a>, <a href="http://www.looktruenorth.com/limited-government/taxation/7183-maximizing-corporate-taxes.html" rel="nofollow">link</a></p>
<p>There are lots and lots of variations on the themes: flat tax, fair tax, etc. Regulation issues are similar. There are plenty of particulars out there. Unfortunately, I think too many folks just glaze over at the specifics and cry, "All I ever hear is “tax cuts!” and “less regulation!”"</p>
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		<title>By: odograph</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/on_the_conservative_movement/comment-page-1/#comment-986727</link>
		<dc:creator>odograph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 03:22:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=32519#comment-986727</guid>
		<description>I didn&#039;t read this thread until I had time to read it all.  I think this is true but I haven&#039;t seen anyone else say it:

&lt;blockquote&gt; Frankly, I doubt a McCain Administration stimulus package would look very different than Obama’s. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Though I can give JohnG an ironic answer to this question:

&lt;blockquote&gt;What in the world would John McCain&#039;s stimulus have had in it that would cost 780 odd billion dollars&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Think &quot;Iran&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn't read this thread until I had time to read it all.  I think this is true but I haven't seen anyone else say it:</p>
<blockquote><p> Frankly, I doubt a McCain Administration stimulus package would look very different than Obama&rsquo;s. </p></blockquote>
<p>Though I can give JohnG an ironic answer to this question:</p>
<blockquote><p>What in the world would John McCain's stimulus have had in it that would cost 780 odd billion dollars</p></blockquote>
<p>Think "Iran"</p>
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		<title>By: M1EK</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/on_the_conservative_movement/comment-page-1/#comment-986712</link>
		<dc:creator>M1EK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 02:39:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=32519#comment-986712</guid>
		<description>JohnG, quite simple: McCain would have added another couple hundred billion in tax cuts for the wealthy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JohnG, quite simple: McCain would have added another couple hundred billion in tax cuts for the wealthy.</p>
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		<title>By: JohnG</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/on_the_conservative_movement/comment-page-1/#comment-986681</link>
		<dc:creator>JohnG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 01:36:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=32519#comment-986681</guid>
		<description>What in the world would John McCain&#039;s stimulus have had in it that would cost 780 odd billion dollars?  Certainly there would have been no $38B unemployment increase, no $87B payoff to state Medicaid programs, no $40B to subsidize health care insurance for poor people, no $20B for medical IT systems, no provision to undo Clinton Welfare Reform, and no $125B for public education.  

Unless you mean &quot;the Democratic Congress would never have passed a substantially different stimulus&quot; in which case I agree with you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What in the world would John McCain's stimulus have had in it that would cost 780 odd billion dollars?  Certainly there would have been no $38B unemployment increase, no $87B payoff to state Medicaid programs, no $40B to subsidize health care insurance for poor people, no $20B for medical IT systems, no provision to undo Clinton Welfare Reform, and no $125B for public education.  </p>
<p>Unless you mean "the Democratic Congress would never have passed a substantially different stimulus" in which case I agree with you.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/on_the_conservative_movement/comment-page-1/#comment-986519</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 21:49:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=32519#comment-986519</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;How is that not a vision? How is that not a good hunk of conservative/libertarian philosophy in a nutshell (at least economically): less government?&lt;/blockquote&gt;The problem is that &quot;less government&quot; is not really a description of anything.  The same goes for &quot;cut taxes&quot; and &quot;less regulation&quot;.  Unless you can tell people specifically where and by how much, it&#039;s just platitudes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>How is that not a vision? How is that not a good hunk of conservative/libertarian philosophy in a nutshell (at least economically): less government?</p></blockquote>
<p>The problem is that "less government" is not really a description of anything.  The same goes for "cut taxes" and "less regulation".  Unless you can tell people specifically where and by how much, it's just platitudes.</p>
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		<title>By: Pete Burgess</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/on_the_conservative_movement/comment-page-1/#comment-986447</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete Burgess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 18:52:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=32519#comment-986447</guid>
		<description>Alex, I too believed Obama to be a better candidate, in many ways. But, when I asked myself what would be our biggest problem for the next couple of years, Obama&#039;s obvious economic philosophy, I knew, would not provide the best prescription for correction. That was enough for me, though I never liked McCain or his political legacy, to pull the lever for McCain. He is not as dogmatic as Obama in his economic philosophy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alex, I too believed Obama to be a better candidate, in many ways. But, when I asked myself what would be our biggest problem for the next couple of years, Obama's obvious economic philosophy, I knew, would not provide the best prescription for correction. That was enough for me, though I never liked McCain or his political legacy, to pull the lever for McCain. He is not as dogmatic as Obama in his economic philosophy.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick DeMent</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/on_the_conservative_movement/comment-page-1/#comment-986445</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick DeMent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 18:44:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=32519#comment-986445</guid>
		<description>yes corporations are creations of the state you want the government out of it, dissolve them. I would be all for that ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yes corporations are creations of the state you want the government out of it, dissolve them. I would be all for that ...</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Knapp</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/on_the_conservative_movement/comment-page-1/#comment-986434</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Knapp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 18:19:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=32519#comment-986434</guid>
		<description>Bit,

My preferred solution to get government out of it is to abolish the publicly traded corporation entirely, or at the very least radically change its form from the quasi-governmental functions it has today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bit,</p>
<p>My preferred solution to get government out of it is to abolish the publicly traded corporation entirely, or at the very least radically change its form from the quasi-governmental functions it has today.</p>
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		<title>By: Bithead</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/on_the_conservative_movement/comment-page-1/#comment-986432</link>
		<dc:creator>Bithead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 18:14:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=32519#comment-986432</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Bithead -- Enron, Tyco, Adelphia, Peregrine &amp; WorldCom took a lot of investors for a ride.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Perhaps so. Yet, what has govenment done about it? Did S-O solve these issues, or make them worse?

I&#039;d call multiple trillions of tax dollars a bit of a ride, wouldn&#039;t you?
 
 &lt;blockquote&gt;Newt&#039;s the one who suggested replacing it.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

He makes a large number of suggestions... most fairly good, but many of them aren&#039;t particularly conservative or libertarian, either. I&#039;d suggest the one you point up as a case in point. 

Then again, he&#039;s never calimed Libertarian roots. You however did, in this very post. So once again, comes the question; If you&#039;re going to argue from that perspective, shouldn&#039;t the question &#039;should govenment be involved with this thing at all&#039; be question one on any proposal for legislation?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Bithead -- Enron, Tyco, Adelphia, Peregrine &amp; WorldCom took a lot of investors for a ride.</p></blockquote>
<p>Perhaps so. Yet, what has govenment done about it? Did S-O solve these issues, or make them worse?</p>
<p>I'd call multiple trillions of tax dollars a bit of a ride, wouldn't you?</p>
<blockquote><p>Newt's the one who suggested replacing it.</p></blockquote>
<p>He makes a large number of suggestions... most fairly good, but many of them aren't particularly conservative or libertarian, either. I'd suggest the one you point up as a case in point. </p>
<p>Then again, he's never calimed Libertarian roots. You however did, in this very post. So once again, comes the question; If you're going to argue from that perspective, shouldn't the question 'should govenment be involved with this thing at all' be question one on any proposal for legislation?</p>
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		<title>By: hpb</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/on_the_conservative_movement/comment-page-1/#comment-986430</link>
		<dc:creator>hpb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 18:10:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=32519#comment-986430</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;All I ever hear is “tax cuts!” and “less regulation!”&lt;/blockquote&gt;How is that not a vision? How is that not a good hunk of conservative/libertarian philosophy in a nutshell (at least economically): &lt;i&gt;less government&lt;/i&gt;?

&lt;a href=&quot;http://highplainsblog.blogspot.com/2009/03/more-thoughts-on-economy.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;I jotted a few things down the other day&lt;/a&gt; (mostly a collection of links), and it seems that there are plenty of boring details, but you could essentially boil things down to the quote above.

I suppose I could summarize the Obama plan in a similar fashion: &quot;All I ever hear is &#039;raise taxes!&#039; and &#039;more regulation!&#039;&quot;. How is that a vision?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>All I ever hear is “tax cuts!” and “less regulation!”</p></blockquote>
<p>How is that not a vision? How is that not a good hunk of conservative/libertarian philosophy in a nutshell (at least economically): <i>less government</i>?</p>
<p><a href="http://highplainsblog.blogspot.com/2009/03/more-thoughts-on-economy.html" rel="nofollow">I jotted a few things down the other day</a> (mostly a collection of links), and it seems that there are plenty of boring details, but you could essentially boil things down to the quote above.</p>
<p>I suppose I could summarize the Obama plan in a similar fashion: "All I ever hear is 'raise taxes!' and 'more regulation!'". How is that a vision?</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Swank</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/on_the_conservative_movement/comment-page-1/#comment-986428</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Swank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 18:08:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=32519#comment-986428</guid>
		<description>Bithead -- Enron, Tyco, Adelphia, Peregrine &amp; WorldCom took a lot of investors for a ride.  They cost sensible investors and pension funds dearly by lying to them.  They were in bed with their accountants, particularly in the case of Enron &amp; Anderson.  Sarbanes-Oxley is an imperfect effort to give investors accurate information.  That is a crucial part of a functional capitalist economy.  So yes, I think that this is a place where the government damn&#039;d well better belong.

This has been another edition of easy answers to simple questions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bithead -- Enron, Tyco, Adelphia, Peregrine &amp; WorldCom took a lot of investors for a ride.  They cost sensible investors and pension funds dearly by lying to them.  They were in bed with their accountants, particularly in the case of Enron &amp; Anderson.  Sarbanes-Oxley is an imperfect effort to give investors accurate information.  That is a crucial part of a functional capitalist economy.  So yes, I think that this is a place where the government damn'd well better belong.</p>
<p>This has been another edition of easy answers to simple questions.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Knapp</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/on_the_conservative_movement/comment-page-1/#comment-986420</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Knapp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 17:53:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=32519#comment-986420</guid>
		<description>Pete,

If you read more carefully, you would see that I don&#039;t think that McCain&#039;s policies would be much different from Obama&#039;s.  I voted for Obama because he was a superior candidate in virtually all aspects, but that doesn&#039;t mean I agreed with him on all aspects.

Bit,

Newt&#039;s the one who suggested replacing it.  And as long as corporations are quasi-state entities, I agree.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pete,</p>
<p>If you read more carefully, you would see that I don't think that McCain's policies would be much different from Obama's.  I voted for Obama because he was a superior candidate in virtually all aspects, but that doesn't mean I agreed with him on all aspects.</p>
<p>Bit,</p>
<p>Newt's the one who suggested replacing it.  And as long as corporations are quasi-state entities, I agree.</p>
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