Comments on: Overstatement of the Day – Torture Edition

By: An Interested Party

An Interested Party — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 00:42:52 +0000

Funny, I've yet to meet a SERE graduate (I know lots) who has endured waterboarding and will call it torture.

Perhaps you should meet this gentleman...or this one...or even this one...

By: PD Shaw

PD Shaw — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 22:31:34 +0000

LaurenceB: There would be no problem under U.S. law if the British used waterboarding to coerce a confession from an American citizen which was later used in a U.S. court for a criminal conviction. The jury would consider the confession, the circumstances in which it was received, and whether there was any corroborating evidence.

Why? There are legal lines, of course, but ultimately there are issues of practicality in the difficulty of obtaining and controlling evidence from overseas, as well as the reinforcing values of community shared among citizens.

By: The Strategic MC

The Strategic MC — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 22:05:23 +0000

"By any standards...waterboarding is torture" Please cite these standards. Do not conflate waterboarding techniques, as were used on KSM and the two other AQ dudes, with water-torture and the water-cure, as were used by the IJA, PLA, NK and the Khmer Rouge. And yes, as practiced by the U.S. Army in the Philippines. FWIW: Yesterday, I spoke with a Force Recon MGySgt who, as part of his training, has been through SERE and has been waterboarded more than once. His opinion is that waterboarding, while a "bitch" is not "torture." But he's a Marine, he voted for McCain and like most Marines, he's a masochist. But. Unlike most of those who offer a comment on the subject (including myself), he's actually been there. I take experience over half-informed opinion every time. Funny, I've yet to meet a SERE graduate (I know lots) who has endured waterboarding and will call it torture. For me, someone in this debate has a real credibility issue.

By: floyd

floyd — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 21:05:24 +0000

legion;
Waterboarding has yet to be defined legally as torture, and has therefore only been performed legally.
In my comment I recognized abortion and infanticide as separate issues.
I get to define infanticide as the willful killing of babies outside of the womb.
Your last sentence was unfounded nonsense with no point of reference.

By: legion

legion — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 20:39:01 +0000

Floyd,
Torture is explicitly illegal. Abortion is currently legal.
Neither you nor the terrorist slime that killed Dr Tiller gets to define 'infanticide'; the law does that itself. If you are under the impression that your personal religion gives you the right to murder people you disagree with, the FBI would like to have a word with you.

By: LaurenceB

LaurenceB — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 20:15:54 +0000

Erick,
I'm sorry, I just realized you were "Bithead". Please ignore my previous reply, I'd really rather not have a dialogue with you. Don't take it personally, I'm just not interested.
Thanks

By: LaurenceB

LaurenceB — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 20:10:37 +0000

The answer to your question centers on the loss of life potential.

Hmmm... That's kind of what I expected. Not to be rude, but that argument is so full of holes I wouldn't even know where to start.

By: hcantrall

hcantrall — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 19:37:02 +0000

Thank you Barry for pointing out that politicians are liars, who knew?

By: Eric Florack

Eric Florack — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 19:29:17 +0000

For defenders of "enhanced interrogation", what exactly is the argument against using waterboarding in criminal interrogations, as well as terrorist interrogations?

The answer to your question centers on the loss of life potential. Mere criminal investigations don't come up to that level... which is one reason I've always insisted it's stupid to move terrorists into a criminal court. There's a bright line between the two situations and should be.

By: floyd

floyd — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 19:25:59 +0000

KVC;
C-Span is not supported by tax dollars. PBS...Now there's a waste of tax dollars![lol]

Legion;
Waterboarding is torture, but partial birth abortion, and even infanticide, is not murder?
Fortunately the left doesn't get to decide right and wrong!

By: LaurenceB

LaurenceB — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 19:06:08 +0000

Sullivan was indeed over-the-top. But...

For defenders of "enhanced interrogation", what exactly is the argument against using waterboarding in criminal interrogations, as well as terrorist interrogations? Or do they see nothing wrong with what the British police did?

I'd love to hear just one of them address that.

By: Barry

Barry — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 18:35:21 +0000

James: "But the United States Government waterboarded a grand total of three of them during the Bush-Cheney tenure. So let’s not pretend it was somehow a favorite pastime of the administration."

Considering that most of what went on is still unknown, and that the Bush administration is a pack of hard-core liars, your statement is not justified.

By: Steve Hynd

Steve Hynd — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 18:03:30 +0000

There's an old British joke I first heard in the late 70s which speaks to the likelyhood of this being something only imported from Bush's US.

"Q: How many London coppers does it take to crack an egg?

A: None. It fell down the stairs, Sarge."

Andrew's overindulging himself on this. That said, it's amazing how fast this story, on the heels of the G20 debacle, is creating a bipartisan outcry in the UK. Both sides there freely admit waterboarding is torture, though.

Regards, Steve

PS: Eric, is that really you or did you contract your comments out to Zagdorff today? You're in danger of becoming a charicature of yourself.

By: Eric Florack

Eric Florack — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 17:18:14 +0000

(Sigh)
Never let mere reality step in between a liberal and his talking points.

By: G.A.Phillips

G.A.Phillips — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 16:24:12 +0000

Rush Limbaugh's frat house

Oh ya thats why I love water boarding. Oh the memories......but your right I feel bad about the 3 terror leaders we did that too, you should only do it to each other if it gets you off.
Maybe I should have chosen a different path in place of my conservative studies, and volunteered my time to help out at an abortion clinic, so I could have formed a better moral compass.