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	<title>Comments on: Palin Cleared in Second Troopergate Report</title>
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		<title>By: jukeboxgrad</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/palin_cleared_in_second_troopergate_report/comment-page-1/#comment-520891</link>
		<dc:creator>jukeboxgrad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 00:34:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=26896#comment-520891</guid>
		<description>charles:

&lt;blockquote&gt;uncivil partisan hack … I am accustomed to projection … As to being a hack, well, perhaps I am. But it does make it easier to recognize in others.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The projection is obviously all yours. Let us know if you can come up with any proof to back up the claim you made.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>charles:</p>
<blockquote><p>uncivil partisan hack … I am accustomed to projection … As to being a hack, well, perhaps I am. But it does make it easier to recognize in others.</p></blockquote>
<p>The projection is obviously all yours. Let us know if you can come up with any proof to back up the claim you made.</p>
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		<title>By: jukeboxgrad</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/palin_cleared_in_second_troopergate_report/comment-page-1/#comment-520889</link>
		<dc:creator>jukeboxgrad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 00:33:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=26896#comment-520889</guid>
		<description>rodney:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Based on the Papers the Palin team had submitted&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You are citing a document that contains multiple blatant falsehoods. Here&#039;s an example, regarding a statement that appears on p. 16:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Claims about prior discipline

According to the suspension letter issued by Col. Grimes,[38] there had been three disciplinary actions against Wooten: a Warning, a Reprimand, and an Instruction, for such things as &quot;not using turn signals,&quot; in the period prior to April 11, 2005, the date when the divorce was filed and a Domestic Violence Protective Order was issued.

According to Palin, &quot;Wooten had been disciplined a dozen times before he was the subject of a Domestic Violence Protective Order from Molly McCann.&quot;[135]&lt;/blockquote&gt;

3 is not equal to 12.

google troopergate to find the wiki article. It contains links to the primary sources, so you can see for yourself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>rodney:</p>
<blockquote><p>Based on the Papers the Palin team had submitted</p></blockquote>
<p>You are citing a document that contains multiple blatant falsehoods. Here's an example, regarding a statement that appears on p. 16:</p>
<blockquote><p>Claims about prior discipline</p>
<p>According to the suspension letter issued by Col. Grimes,[38] there had been three disciplinary actions against Wooten: a Warning, a Reprimand, and an Instruction, for such things as "not using turn signals," in the period prior to April 11, 2005, the date when the divorce was filed and a Domestic Violence Protective Order was issued.</p>
<p>According to Palin, "Wooten had been disciplined a dozen times before he was the subject of a Domestic Violence Protective Order from Molly McCann."[135]</p></blockquote>
<p>3 is not equal to 12.</p>
<p>google troopergate to find the wiki article. It contains links to the primary sources, so you can see for yourself.</p>
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		<title>By: jukeboxgrad</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/palin_cleared_in_second_troopergate_report/comment-page-1/#comment-520888</link>
		<dc:creator>jukeboxgrad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 00:30:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=26896#comment-520888</guid>
		<description>bit:

&lt;blockquote&gt;You seem to be operating on the notion that there&#039;s no credibility issue, here.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You seem to be operating on the notion that you can get away with smearing Wheeler and Glass by claiming they have a &quot;credibility issue,&quot; while also not lifting a finger to explain why there&#039;s any reason to doubt their credibility.

And even if they have a &quot;credibility issue,&quot; there&#039;s no excuse for Petumenos to fail to even mention their testimony. This proves that the Petumenos report is a joke.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>bit:</p>
<blockquote><p>You seem to be operating on the notion that there's no credibility issue, here.</p></blockquote>
<p>You seem to be operating on the notion that you can get away with smearing Wheeler and Glass by claiming they have a "credibility issue," while also not lifting a finger to explain why there's any reason to doubt their credibility.</p>
<p>And even if they have a "credibility issue," there's no excuse for Petumenos to fail to even mention their testimony. This proves that the Petumenos report is a joke.</p>
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		<title>By: jukeboxgrad</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/palin_cleared_in_second_troopergate_report/comment-page-1/#comment-520886</link>
		<dc:creator>jukeboxgrad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 00:29:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=26896#comment-520886</guid>
		<description>eric:

&lt;blockquote&gt;I&#039;m no big fan of Beldar, but he may actually have a day job that keeps him from posting every 15 minutes. So let&#039;s grant him some time and space to respond.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Think he&#039;s had enough time yet?

By the way, I notified him of his falsehoods weeks ago, &lt;a href=&quot;http://volokh.com/posts/1224562497.shtml#466071&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;. He&#039;s had plenty of time to respond. He&#039;s not going to (at least not in any remotely substantive manner).

He also ran away from another thread, &lt;a href=&quot;http://volokh.com/posts/1225811385.shtml&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>eric:</p>
<blockquote><p>I'm no big fan of Beldar, but he may actually have a day job that keeps him from posting every 15 minutes. So let's grant him some time and space to respond.</p></blockquote>
<p>Think he's had enough time yet?</p>
<p>By the way, I notified him of his falsehoods weeks ago, <a href="http://volokh.com/posts/1224562497.shtml#466071" rel="nofollow">here</a>. He's had plenty of time to respond. He's not going to (at least not in any remotely substantive manner).</p>
<p>He also ran away from another thread, <a href="http://volokh.com/posts/1225811385.shtml" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: charles austin</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/palin_cleared_in_second_troopergate_report/comment-page-1/#comment-520848</link>
		<dc:creator>charles austin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 23:06:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=26896#comment-520848</guid>
		<description>Eric, my apologies if I seem uncivil, I really don&#039;t set out to be but when I am it is usually in response to something more egregious.  Since I regret the election of either Senator Obama or Senator McCain I&#039;m not sure how partisan I am, but I am accustomed to projection on the part of those who are annoyed at everyone who does not worship at the altar of The One.  As to being a hack, well, perhaps I am.  But it does make it easier to recognize in others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eric, my apologies if I seem uncivil, I really don't set out to be but when I am it is usually in response to something more egregious.  Since I regret the election of either Senator Obama or Senator McCain I'm not sure how partisan I am, but I am accustomed to projection on the part of those who are annoyed at everyone who does not worship at the altar of The One.  As to being a hack, well, perhaps I am.  But it does make it easier to recognize in others.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/palin_cleared_in_second_troopergate_report/comment-page-1/#comment-520808</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 20:56:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=26896#comment-520808</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;English translation: &#039;uncivil partisan hack.&#039;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Charles, you of all people should be the last one accusing others of being uncivil, partisan, or a hack.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>English translation: 'uncivil partisan hack.'</p></blockquote>
<p>Charles, you of all people should be the last one accusing others of being uncivil, partisan, or a hack.</p>
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		<title>By: charles austin</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/palin_cleared_in_second_troopergate_report/comment-page-1/#comment-520784</link>
		<dc:creator>charles austin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 18:54:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=26896#comment-520784</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;jukeboxgrad&lt;/blockquote&gt;

English translation: &#039;uncivil partisan hack.&#039;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>jukeboxgrad</p></blockquote>
<p>English translation: 'uncivil partisan hack.'</p>
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		<title>By: Benjamin Wright</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/palin_cleared_in_second_troopergate_report/comment-page-1/#comment-520779</link>
		<dc:creator>Benjamin Wright</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 18:35:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=26896#comment-520779</guid>
		<description>On account of Open Records Acts, state governments are wise to insist that employees (including governors) route all business e-mail through a central e-mail archive and to encourage employees to take all personal e-mail to personal accounts.  --Ben &lt;a href=&quot;http://legal-beagle.typepad.com/wrights_legal_beagle/2008/08/local-government-e-mail-and-the-freedom-of-information-act.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;detailed analysis&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On account of Open Records Acts, state governments are wise to insist that employees (including governors) route all business e-mail through a central e-mail archive and to encourage employees to take all personal e-mail to personal accounts.  --Ben <a href="http://legal-beagle.typepad.com/wrights_legal_beagle/2008/08/local-government-e-mail-and-the-freedom-of-information-act.html" rel="nofollow">detailed analysis</a></p>
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		<title>By: rodney dill</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/palin_cleared_in_second_troopergate_report/comment-page-1/#comment-520771</link>
		<dc:creator>rodney dill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 17:03:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=26896#comment-520771</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s not BS, Sam, but it was my best recollection from memory of &lt;a href=&quot;http://hotair.com/archives/2008/09/16/palin-fires-back-in-troopergate-releases-memos-showing-insubordination/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this&lt;/a&gt; post.

&lt;blockquote&gt;According to the papers filed by Palin’s legal team, that was not the only instance of insubordination from Monegan:

    * 12/9/07: Monegan holds a press conference with Hollis French to push his own budget plan.
    * 1/29/08: Palin’s staffers have to rework their procedures to keep Monegan from bypassing normal channels for budget requests.
    * February 2008: Monegan publicly releases a letter he wrote to Palin supporting a project she vetoed.
    * June 26, 2008: Monegan bypassed the governor’s office entirely and contacted Alaska’s Congressional delegation to gain funding for a project.

From this presentation, it looks like Monegan had decided from the start to be a loose cannon in the Palin administration.  The wonder of this isn’t that he got fired — it’s how he managed to hang onto his job as long as he did.  The response calls Monegan’s trip to Washington the “final straw”, and it’s not difficult to see why.&lt;/blockquote&gt;   

Based on the &lt;a href=&quot;http://hotair.cachefly.net/images/2008-09/palin-response.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Papers&lt;/a&gt; the Palin team had submitted. These may be in dispute from her detractors, but I haven&#039;t seen any official finding to show that the team made a fallacious filing.

Since this whole affair became a non-issue in the election I stopped following it very closely. The facts are that Monegan was &#039;fired&#039; because of Monegan&#039;s own actions and not Wooten, which was the only point I was making.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It's not BS, Sam, but it was my best recollection from memory of <a href="http://hotair.com/archives/2008/09/16/palin-fires-back-in-troopergate-releases-memos-showing-insubordination/" rel="nofollow">this</a> post.</p>
<blockquote><p>According to the papers filed by Palin&rsquo;s legal team, that was not the only instance of insubordination from Monegan:</p>
<p>    * 12/9/07: Monegan holds a press conference with Hollis French to push his own budget plan.<br />
    * 1/29/08: Palin&rsquo;s staffers have to rework their procedures to keep Monegan from bypassing normal channels for budget requests.<br />
    * February 2008: Monegan publicly releases a letter he wrote to Palin supporting a project she vetoed.<br />
    * June 26, 2008: Monegan bypassed the governor&rsquo;s office entirely and contacted Alaska&rsquo;s Congressional delegation to gain funding for a project.</p>
<p>From this presentation, it looks like Monegan had decided from the start to be a loose cannon in the Palin administration.  The wonder of this isn&rsquo;t that he got fired — it&rsquo;s how he managed to hang onto his job as long as he did.  The response calls Monegan&rsquo;s trip to Washington the “final straw”, and it&rsquo;s not difficult to see why.</p></blockquote>
<p>Based on the <a href="http://hotair.cachefly.net/images/2008-09/palin-response.pdf" rel="nofollow">Papers</a> the Palin team had submitted. These may be in dispute from her detractors, but I haven't seen any official finding to show that the team made a fallacious filing.</p>
<p>Since this whole affair became a non-issue in the election I stopped following it very closely. The facts are that Monegan was 'fired' because of Monegan's own actions and not Wooten, which was the only point I was making.</p>
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		<title>By: Bithead</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/palin_cleared_in_second_troopergate_report/comment-page-1/#comment-520770</link>
		<dc:creator>Bithead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 16:46:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=26896#comment-520770</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Please explain why Petumenos did not bother to make even a pretense of explaining the contradiction between the testimony offered by Palin and the testimony offered by the other witnesses I mentioned. Petumenos is pretending this other testimony simply doesn&#039;t exist&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Heh. You seem to be operating on the notion that there&#039;s no credibility issue, here. 

&lt;blockquote&gt;Hopefully this issue wasn&#039;t politicized in order to drag out the decision.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

gee... ya think?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Please explain why Petumenos did not bother to make even a pretense of explaining the contradiction between the testimony offered by Palin and the testimony offered by the other witnesses I mentioned. Petumenos is pretending this other testimony simply doesn't exist</p></blockquote>
<p>Heh. You seem to be operating on the notion that there's no credibility issue, here. </p>
<blockquote><p>Hopefully this issue wasn't politicized in order to drag out the decision.</p></blockquote>
<p>gee... ya think?</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/palin_cleared_in_second_troopergate_report/comment-page-1/#comment-520764</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 16:32:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=26896#comment-520764</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I think you&#039;re looking for &quot;plenary,&quot; meaning &quot;complete.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yes, that&#039;s it. Thanks JJ.

&lt;blockquote&gt;So for 2 of the 3, we have reason to think they have a bias.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

jukeboxgrad, I agree with much of what you say, but I am not inclined to believe the Personnel Board is necessarily biased in favor of Palin. I think those conflicts of interest should be noted, but I don&#039;t think they are necessarily damning in and of themselves. 

&lt;blockquote&gt;Beldar (aka Bill Dyer), this is now the third time I&#039;m pointing out to you...&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Now, I&#039;m no big fan of Beldar, but he may actually have a day job that keeps him from posting every 15 minutes. So let&#039;s grant him some time and space to respond.  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I think you're looking for "plenary," meaning "complete."</p></blockquote>
<p>Yes, that's it. Thanks JJ.</p>
<blockquote><p>So for 2 of the 3, we have reason to think they have a bias.</p></blockquote>
<p>jukeboxgrad, I agree with much of what you say, but I am not inclined to believe the Personnel Board is necessarily biased in favor of Palin. I think those conflicts of interest should be noted, but I don't think they are necessarily damning in and of themselves. </p>
<blockquote><p>Beldar (aka Bill Dyer), this is now the third time I'm pointing out to you...</p></blockquote>
<p>Now, I'm no big fan of Beldar, but he may actually have a day job that keeps him from posting every 15 minutes. So let's grant him some time and space to respond.  :)</p>
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		<title>By: JT</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/palin_cleared_in_second_troopergate_report/comment-page-1/#comment-520761</link>
		<dc:creator>JT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 16:09:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=26896#comment-520761</guid>
		<description>Hopefully this issue wasn&#039;t politicized in order to drag out the decision.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hopefully this issue wasn't politicized in order to drag out the decision.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/palin_cleared_in_second_troopergate_report/comment-page-1/#comment-520756</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 15:59:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=26896#comment-520756</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Are you really claiming that the Legislature has no right to investigate the Executive branch?&lt;/blockquote&gt;You say that like you&#039;d be surprised by such a claim.  The current federal administration has been making exactly that claim for years.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Headline should read...

&quot;Damage Done , Jackasses Backoff&quot;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;In this case, then, the &quot;Jackass&quot; is Sarah Palin, because she is the one that initiated the investigation that led to this particular report.  The investigation that was initiated by the state legislature released it&#039;s report a while back, which by the way found that she abused her power.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Drag her name through the mud from the time she is selected until the day before the election.

Standard Operational Procedure.

Get used to it.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;Right, campaigning is messy business, and &lt;i&gt;every&lt;/i&gt; candidate gets their reputation drug through as much mud as the opposition can find.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Are you really claiming that the Legislature has no right to investigate the Executive branch?</p></blockquote>
<p>You say that like you'd be surprised by such a claim.  The current federal administration has been making exactly that claim for years.</p>
<blockquote><p>Headline should read...</p>
<p>"Damage Done , Jackasses Backoff"
</p></blockquote>
<p>In this case, then, the "Jackass" is Sarah Palin, because she is the one that initiated the investigation that led to this particular report.  The investigation that was initiated by the state legislature released it's report a while back, which by the way found that she abused her power.</p>
<blockquote><p>Drag her name through the mud from the time she is selected until the day before the election.</p>
<p>Standard Operational Procedure.</p>
<p>Get used to it.
</p></blockquote>
<p>Right, campaigning is messy business, and <i>every</i> candidate gets their reputation drug through as much mud as the opposition can find.</p>
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		<title>By: jukeboxgrad</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/palin_cleared_in_second_troopergate_report/comment-page-1/#comment-520755</link>
		<dc:creator>jukeboxgrad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 15:58:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=26896#comment-520755</guid>
		<description>charles:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Drag her name through the mud&lt;/blockquote&gt;

English translation: &#039;hold her accountable for her actions.&#039;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>charles:</p>
<blockquote><p>Drag her name through the mud</p></blockquote>
<p>English translation: 'hold her accountable for her actions.'</p>
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		<title>By: jukeboxgrad</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/palin_cleared_in_second_troopergate_report/comment-page-1/#comment-520754</link>
		<dc:creator>jukeboxgrad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 15:57:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=26896#comment-520754</guid>
		<description>bit:

&lt;blockquote&gt;But when asked to remove Wooten for those crimes, he [Monegan] balked. And should have been fired on that basis alone, to say naught of the rest of it.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Let us know if you&#039;re really claiming that Monegan had any basis for revisiting a matter that had already been fully adjudicated by the previous administration. Was Monegan supposed to reopen all such investigations that had been done under Murkowski, or just the ones that related to Palin&#039;s family?

By the way, you need to do a better job of coordinating your talking points with Palin. According to her, Monegan was never &quot;asked to remove Wooten for those crimes.&quot;

&lt;blockquote&gt;That is far from established. [that Glass and Wheeler are neutral witnesses]&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Please explain why Petumenos did not bother to make even a pretense of explaining the contradiction between the testimony offered by Palin and the testimony offered by the other witnesses I mentioned. Petumenos is pretending this other testimony simply doesn&#039;t exist. Is this OK with you? It&#039;s a rhetorical question.

&lt;blockquote&gt;At what point do we get the proof of your claim?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

At this point: the moment you overcome your click-impairment and follow the links I provided.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>bit:</p>
<blockquote><p>But when asked to remove Wooten for those crimes, he [Monegan] balked. And should have been fired on that basis alone, to say naught of the rest of it.</p></blockquote>
<p>Let us know if you're really claiming that Monegan had any basis for revisiting a matter that had already been fully adjudicated by the previous administration. Was Monegan supposed to reopen all such investigations that had been done under Murkowski, or just the ones that related to Palin's family?</p>
<p>By the way, you need to do a better job of coordinating your talking points with Palin. According to her, Monegan was never "asked to remove Wooten for those crimes."</p>
<blockquote><p>That is far from established. [that Glass and Wheeler are neutral witnesses]</p></blockquote>
<p>Please explain why Petumenos did not bother to make even a pretense of explaining the contradiction between the testimony offered by Palin and the testimony offered by the other witnesses I mentioned. Petumenos is pretending this other testimony simply doesn't exist. Is this OK with you? It's a rhetorical question.</p>
<blockquote><p>At what point do we get the proof of your claim?</p></blockquote>
<p>At this point: the moment you overcome your click-impairment and follow the links I provided.</p>
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