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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Papers, please!&#8221;</title>
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	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 05:46:45 -0600</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Hangtown Bob</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/papers_please/comment-page-1/#comment-1055407</link>
		<dc:creator>Hangtown Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 14:15:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=37026#comment-1055407</guid>
		<description>So......

Do Mexicans coming to the U.S. legally have to have a Mexican passport now??  If not, why can Mexicans coming here have a looser entry requirement than U.S. citizens?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So......</p>
<p>Do Mexicans coming to the U.S. legally have to have a Mexican passport now??  If not, why can Mexicans coming here have a looser entry requirement than U.S. citizens?</p>
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		<title>By: charles austin</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/papers_please/comment-page-1/#comment-1055022</link>
		<dc:creator>charles austin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 21:55:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=37026#comment-1055022</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Of course, there’s no good reason for this. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Of course that begs the age old question of &quot;What is good?&quot;  If the good is defined as building up the federal bureaucracy and creating a false sense of security, then perhaps there are good reasons for this after all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Of course, there&rsquo;s no good reason for this. </p></blockquote>
<p>Of course that begs the age old question of "What is good?"  If the good is defined as building up the federal bureaucracy and creating a false sense of security, then perhaps there are good reasons for this after all.</p>
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		<title>By: The Strategic MC</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/papers_please/comment-page-1/#comment-1054979</link>
		<dc:creator>The Strategic MC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 20:52:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=37026#comment-1054979</guid>
		<description>&quot;...but the end result is...a bunch of unlicensed drivers driving the streets.&quot;

True, as far it goes. However.

Is this an equitable (to say nothing of wise) trade: a de facto legal document in exchange for a certification of superficial familiarity with traffic law?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"...but the end result is...a bunch of unlicensed drivers driving the streets."</p>
<p>True, as far it goes. However.</p>
<p>Is this an equitable (to say nothing of wise) trade: a de facto legal document in exchange for a certification of superficial familiarity with traffic law?</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Florack</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/papers_please/comment-page-1/#comment-1054970</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Florack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 19:53:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=37026#comment-1054970</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I guess we differ on this one, because preventing illegals from getting drivers licenses may feel like a punitive measure but the end result is...a bunch of unlicensed drivers driving the streets.&lt;/blockquote&gt;\

I think you may be misreading me because from my POV we don&#039;t disagree on that point at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I guess we differ on this one, because preventing illegals from getting drivers licenses may feel like a punitive measure but the end result is...a bunch of unlicensed drivers driving the streets.</p></blockquote>
<p>\</p>
<p>I think you may be misreading me because from my POV we don't disagree on that point at all.</p>
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		<title>By: Because I Always Travel To Canada By Zeppelin &#171; Around The Sphere</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/papers_please/comment-page-1/#comment-1054964</link>
		<dc:creator>Because I Always Travel To Canada By Zeppelin &#171; Around The Sphere</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 19:09:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=37026#comment-1054964</guid>
		<description>[...] Alex Knapp [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Alex Knapp [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Herb</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/papers_please/comment-page-1/#comment-1054962</link>
		<dc:creator>Herb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 19:07:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=37026#comment-1054962</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;...illegals to obtain driver&#039;s liceses, so they could drive and get taxpayer funded services, and vote for Democrats...&lt;/blockquote&gt;I guess we differ on this one, because preventing illegals from getting drivers licenses may &lt;em&gt;feel&lt;/em&gt; like a punitive measure but the end result is...a bunch of unlicensed drivers driving the streets.

I&#039;m very sympathetic to the idea that we don&#039;t want to &quot;reward&quot; bad behavior, but we should also be aware of how we encourage it too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>...illegals to obtain driver's liceses, so they could drive and get taxpayer funded services, and vote for Democrats...</p></blockquote>
<p>I guess we differ on this one, because preventing illegals from getting drivers licenses may <em>feel</em> like a punitive measure but the end result is...a bunch of unlicensed drivers driving the streets.</p>
<p>I'm very sympathetic to the idea that we don't want to "reward" bad behavior, but we should also be aware of how we encourage it too.</p>
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		<title>By: The Strategic MC</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/papers_please/comment-page-1/#comment-1054935</link>
		<dc:creator>The Strategic MC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 17:55:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=37026#comment-1054935</guid>
		<description>Much to do about nothing?:

&quot;...(B)eginning yesterday, state-issued driver&#039;s licenses, identification cards and birth certificates are no longer acceptable documents for travelers 16 and older...&quot; 
Oscar Preciado, director of the San Ysidro and Otay Mesa ports of entry, (San Diego) said &lt;em&gt;that for now, travelers who don&#039;t comply are being handed informational fliers.&lt;/em&gt; &lt;em&gt;Eventually&lt;/em&gt;, those without the right documents will undergo a secondary inspection.&quot;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/jun/02/new-rites-passage-debut/?uniontrib&lt;/a&gt;

Full and strict enforcement (i.e., &quot;no passport, no entry&quot;) is not in effect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Much to do about nothing?:</p>
<p>"...(B)eginning yesterday, state-issued driver's licenses, identification cards and birth certificates are no longer acceptable documents for travelers 16 and older..."<br />
Oscar Preciado, director of the San Ysidro and Otay Mesa ports of entry, (San Diego) said <em>that for now, travelers who don't comply are being handed informational fliers.</em> <em>Eventually</em>, those without the right documents will undergo a secondary inspection."<br />
<a href="http://" rel="nofollow">www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/jun/02/new-rites-passage-debut/?uniontrib</a></p>
<p>Full and strict enforcement (i.e., "no passport, no entry") is not in effect.</p>
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		<title>By: The Strategic MC</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/papers_please/comment-page-1/#comment-1054929</link>
		<dc:creator>The Strategic MC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 17:29:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=37026#comment-1054929</guid>
		<description>&quot;At any rate, I&#039;m a little sick my life being made more difficult to deter terrorists/illegals/etc. Aren&#039;t you?&quot;

Yes. Now build the g-d fence and let&#039;s have the immigration controls that most U.S. citizens demand.

Anyway, if your life were made &quot;easier&quot;, you might have to give up cheap lawn care, Mexican Combo plates and pay $5.00 for a head of lettuce; Didn&#039;t you see a Day Without Mexicans?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"At any rate, I'm a little sick my life being made more difficult to deter terrorists/illegals/etc. Aren't you?"</p>
<p>Yes. Now build the g-d fence and let's have the immigration controls that most U.S. citizens demand.</p>
<p>Anyway, if your life were made "easier", you might have to give up cheap lawn care, Mexican Combo plates and pay $5.00 for a head of lettuce; Didn't you see a Day Without Mexicans?</p>
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		<title>By: The Strategic MC</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/papers_please/comment-page-1/#comment-1054920</link>
		<dc:creator>The Strategic MC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 17:06:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=37026#comment-1054920</guid>
		<description>&quot;If someone on a cruise fell ill and needed to return to the U.S., they would not be able to.&quot;

Not true.

Section 212 of the Immigration and Naturalization Act (INA), gives discretionary authority to the DHS Secretary to allow aliens entry into the U.S. for &quot;urgent humanitarian reasons.&quot; I&#039;m pretty sure that this covers emergency medical treatment.

Additionally, Title 8 of the U.S. Code has entry provisions for the emergency treatment of aliens.

Closed loop cruises, as they never embark passengers from non-U.S. ports, are not effected by the new rules.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"If someone on a cruise fell ill and needed to return to the U.S., they would not be able to."</p>
<p>Not true.</p>
<p>Section 212 of the Immigration and Naturalization Act (INA), gives discretionary authority to the DHS Secretary to allow aliens entry into the U.S. for "urgent humanitarian reasons." I'm pretty sure that this covers emergency medical treatment.</p>
<p>Additionally, Title 8 of the U.S. Code has entry provisions for the emergency treatment of aliens.</p>
<p>Closed loop cruises, as they never embark passengers from non-U.S. ports, are not effected by the new rules.</p>
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		<title>By: Bithead</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/papers_please/comment-page-1/#comment-1054918</link>
		<dc:creator>Bithead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 16:55:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=37026#comment-1054918</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;At any rate, I&#039;m a little sick my life being made more difficult to deter terrorists/illegals/etc. Aren&#039;t you?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Sure.
Wouldn&#039;t be needed, though if we hadn&#039;t spent all that time and money trying to make it easier for illegals to obtain driver&#039;s liceses, so they could drive  and get taxpayer funded services, and vote for Democrats, Hmmm?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>At any rate, I'm a little sick my life being made more difficult to deter terrorists/illegals/etc. Aren't you?</p></blockquote>
<p>Sure.<br />
Wouldn't be needed, though if we hadn't spent all that time and money trying to make it easier for illegals to obtain driver's liceses, so they could drive  and get taxpayer funded services, and vote for Democrats, Hmmm?</p>
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		<title>By: Herb</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/papers_please/comment-page-1/#comment-1054915</link>
		<dc:creator>Herb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 16:36:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=37026#comment-1054915</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I think if you look again, Herb, you&#039;ll find Alex was talking there, about one aspect of the new rule...&lt;/blockquote&gt;I was actually talking about Bush&#039;s recurring surprise, not anything Alex had said.

Bush in May of 09 (From thestar.com&#039;s story linked above):
&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;I&#039;ll be frank with you Frank, I don&#039;t know about the passport issue,&quot; Bush told the crowd of 6,000.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Bush in April 05 (From the AP report I linked above):
&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;When I first read that in the newspaper about the need to have passports, particularly today&#039;s crossings that take place, about a million for instance in the state of Texas, I said, `What&#039;s going on here?&quot;&#039; Bush said when asked about the rules at a meeting of the American Society of Newspaper Editors.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Don&#039;t you find that just a little strange?  Maybe he really doesn&#039;t &quot;know about the passport issue.&quot;  Maybe, as the guy who implemented it, he does...  Like I said, I&#039;m not calling him a liar and I&#039;m not calling him stupid, but something just doesn&#039;t add up there.

At any rate, I&#039;m a little sick &lt;em&gt;my life&lt;/em&gt; being made more difficult to deter terrorists/illegals/etc.  Aren&#039;t you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I think if you look again, Herb, you'll find Alex was talking there, about one aspect of the new rule...</p></blockquote>
<p>I was actually talking about Bush's recurring surprise, not anything Alex had said.</p>
<p>Bush in May of 09 (From thestar.com's story linked above):</p>
<blockquote><p>"I'll be frank with you Frank, I don't know about the passport issue," Bush told the crowd of 6,000.</p></blockquote>
<p>Bush in April 05 (From the AP report I linked above):</p>
<blockquote><p>"When I first read that in the newspaper about the need to have passports, particularly today's crossings that take place, about a million for instance in the state of Texas, I said, `What's going on here?"' Bush said when asked about the rules at a meeting of the American Society of Newspaper Editors.</p></blockquote>
<p>Don't you find that just a little strange?  Maybe he really doesn't "know about the passport issue."  Maybe, as the guy who implemented it, he does...  Like I said, I'm not calling him a liar and I'm not calling him stupid, but something just doesn't add up there.</p>
<p>At any rate, I'm a little sick <em>my life</em> being made more difficult to deter terrorists/illegals/etc.  Aren't you?</p>
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		<title>By: markm</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/papers_please/comment-page-1/#comment-1054912</link>
		<dc:creator>markm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 16:31:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=37026#comment-1054912</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Bill Clinton and George W. Bush admitted yesterday they had no idea the U.S. was implementing a new rule Monday&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I can see that if you are not on a border state. Here in Michigan it&#039;s old news but if you were from the interior I can see it not being big news.

So what it amounts too is when when entering or leaving Canada we get to have our vehicles ripped apart...but with a passport in hand. I&#039;ll stay put, thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Bill Clinton and George W. Bush admitted yesterday they had no idea the U.S. was implementing a new rule Monday</p></blockquote>
<p>I can see that if you are not on a border state. Here in Michigan it's old news but if you were from the interior I can see it not being big news.</p>
<p>So what it amounts too is when when entering or leaving Canada we get to have our vehicles ripped apart...but with a passport in hand. I'll stay put, thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: The Strategic MC</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/papers_please/comment-page-1/#comment-1054911</link>
		<dc:creator>The Strategic MC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 16:26:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=37026#comment-1054911</guid>
		<description>&quot;American citizens have been freely traveling to Canada, Mexico, and the Caribbean now for decades on the strength of a driver’s license.&quot;

And far too often, far too many illegal immigrants have been &quot;freely&quot; entering the U.S. on the strength of a (bogus) driver&#039;s license.

Here on the southern border, the benefits of the new policy are obvious: Yesterday, the border wait for traffic entering San Diego from Tijuana, usually 90 minutes to 2 hrs at peak times, was down to less than 15 minutes. 

Coincidentally, the wait time was dramatically increased for people who lined up to climb the fence and sneak across the border.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"American citizens have been freely traveling to Canada, Mexico, and the Caribbean now for decades on the strength of a driver&rsquo;s license."</p>
<p>And far too often, far too many illegal immigrants have been "freely" entering the U.S. on the strength of a (bogus) driver's license.</p>
<p>Here on the southern border, the benefits of the new policy are obvious: Yesterday, the border wait for traffic entering San Diego from Tijuana, usually 90 minutes to 2 hrs at peak times, was down to less than 15 minutes. </p>
<p>Coincidentally, the wait time was dramatically increased for people who lined up to climb the fence and sneak across the border.</p>
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		<title>By: odograph</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/papers_please/comment-page-1/#comment-1054909</link>
		<dc:creator>odograph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 16:20:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=37026#comment-1054909</guid>
		<description>When I drove up through Canada to Alaska, maybe 5 years ago, they required a passport or birth certificate to re-enter at Alaska.  I believe it was a terrorism thing.  I didn&#039;t like it then, but this seems a small move from that.

FWIW, my radar will be up much more for what they make us carry within the country, rather than at entry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I drove up through Canada to Alaska, maybe 5 years ago, they required a passport or birth certificate to re-enter at Alaska.  I believe it was a terrorism thing.  I didn't like it then, but this seems a small move from that.</p>
<p>FWIW, my radar will be up much more for what they make us carry within the country, rather than at entry.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/papers_please/comment-page-1/#comment-1054902</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 16:05:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=37026#comment-1054902</guid>
		<description>Of course there&#039;s a point to this. point: Turning citizens into subjects.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course there's a point to this. point: Turning citizens into subjects.</p>
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