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	<title>Comments on: PARENTAL RIGHTS</title>
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	<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/parental_rights/</link>
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		<title>By: John Lemon</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/parental_rights/comment-page-1/#comment-9839</link>
		<dc:creator>John Lemon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=4433#comment-9839</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m expecting a resolution to this new set of questions when I return to your blog in a few hours.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'm expecting a resolution to this new set of questions when I return to your blog in a few hours.</p>
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		<title>By: Meezer</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/parental_rights/comment-page-1/#comment-9840</link>
		<dc:creator>Meezer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=4433#comment-9840</guid>
		<description>What possible difference does it make if a person, with a job, paying taxes, breaking no laws, believes that the world was created in six days?  There is no way a child could grow to majority without hearing that there is a different view out there and that it is shared by most people.  At that point they make up their own mind.  The Amish fit one of the categories you mention.  I have known several of them personally through business, etc.  They are very productive members of society.  

I am amazed at the number of conservatives who complain about the nanny state yet still seem to hanker after a literal nanny state for children.  When I was young I rode horses!  Bareback! I should have been protected for my own sake, surely.  Or what about spashing about in small ponds (full of disease causing organisms) hunting tadpoles?  My childhood was heaven on earth compared to what kids endure today.  Of course, I was indoctrinated in all sorts of terrible, false ideas:  People are responsible for their own actions; respect for elders; kindness to animals without anthromorphism; your word is your bond; etc.
I am in a teacher ed. course at this very moment.   There are plenty of people there who think I should have been saved from such &quot;rigid&quot; indoctrination.  They are training the next batch of teachers.

p.s. I do not believe the world was created in six days.  Incredibly, I figured that out on my own.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What possible difference does it make if a person, with a job, paying taxes, breaking no laws, believes that the world was created in six days?  There is no way a child could grow to majority without hearing that there is a different view out there and that it is shared by most people.  At that point they make up their own mind.  The Amish fit one of the categories you mention.  I have known several of them personally through business, etc.  They are very productive members of society.  </p>
<p>I am amazed at the number of conservatives who complain about the nanny state yet still seem to hanker after a literal nanny state for children.  When I was young I rode horses!  Bareback! I should have been protected for my own sake, surely.  Or what about spashing about in small ponds (full of disease causing organisms) hunting tadpoles?  My childhood was heaven on earth compared to what kids endure today.  Of course, I was indoctrinated in all sorts of terrible, false ideas:  People are responsible for their own actions; respect for elders; kindness to animals without anthromorphism; your word is your bond; etc.<br />
I am in a teacher ed. course at this very moment.   There are plenty of people there who think I should have been saved from such "rigid" indoctrination.  They are training the next batch of teachers.</p>
<p>p.s. I do not believe the world was created in six days.  Incredibly, I figured that out on my own.</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/parental_rights/comment-page-1/#comment-9841</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=4433#comment-9841</guid>
		<description>Meezer:

Did you read the post?

I argue that schools should teach science because it&#039;s a good thing for kids to grow up to know things about the world. How would kids &quot;figure it out on their own&quot; without education?

And who&#039;s arguing for a nanny state to protect children from the normal dangers of society? That&#039;s a far cry from not allowing their parents to make them play with rattlesnakes or deny them surgery.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Meezer:</p>
<p>Did you read the post?</p>
<p>I argue that schools should teach science because it's a good thing for kids to grow up to know things about the world. How would kids "figure it out on their own" without education?</p>
<p>And who's arguing for a nanny state to protect children from the normal dangers of society? That's a far cry from not allowing their parents to make them play with rattlesnakes or deny them surgery.</p>
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		<title>By: j Swift</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/parental_rights/comment-page-1/#comment-9842</link>
		<dc:creator>j Swift</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=4433#comment-9842</guid>
		<description>&quot;I am amazed at the number of conservatives who complain about the nanny state yet still seem to hanker after a literal nanny state for children.&quot;

Some of the Religous Right (is it un-PC to call that amorphous group that still?) are not really upset that there is a nanny state, just that it is not theirs&#039;. It has less to do with parental rights and more to do with saving us heathens and apostates.  That they are being victimized by the secular world is an excuse to preach for a &quot;return&quot; to good old days, to proselytize where ever they can.  

Americans have unprecedented religious freedom and can be free of secular world to a large degree because of it.  

No one is forced to have a T.V. or purchase secular books.

As noted in the post there are alternatives to public schools.

There is a substantial body of non-secular media available to Christians in the country.

The cry from the Christian Right that there is hostility is disingenuous.

It is obvious that there is going to be hostility toward them.  It has been made obvious by the history of Christianity and is laid out for them in the Bible.  It should come as no surprise to Christians.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"I am amazed at the number of conservatives who complain about the nanny state yet still seem to hanker after a literal nanny state for children."</p>
<p>Some of the Religous Right (is it un-PC to call that amorphous group that still?) are not really upset that there is a nanny state, just that it is not theirs'. It has less to do with parental rights and more to do with saving us heathens and apostates.  That they are being victimized by the secular world is an excuse to preach for a "return" to good old days, to proselytize where ever they can.  </p>
<p>Americans have unprecedented religious freedom and can be free of secular world to a large degree because of it.  </p>
<p>No one is forced to have a T.V. or purchase secular books.</p>
<p>As noted in the post there are alternatives to public schools.</p>
<p>There is a substantial body of non-secular media available to Christians in the country.</p>
<p>The cry from the Christian Right that there is hostility is disingenuous.</p>
<p>It is obvious that there is going to be hostility toward them.  It has been made obvious by the history of Christianity and is laid out for them in the Bible.  It should come as no surprise to Christians.</p>
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		<title>By: raj</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/parental_rights/comment-page-1/#comment-9843</link>
		<dc:creator>raj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=4433#comment-9843</guid>
		<description>&gt;And an increasing number are simply home schooling the kids, sheltering them from the world even more substantially. Both of these trends disturb me on some level. The early evidence, however, seems to indicate that my fears are unwarranted. Home-schooled kids are doing quite well on standardized tests as compared to their public-schooled cohort, for example. 

Um, any idiot would tell you that, to the extent to which this is correct--something that is highly questionable--this (i) may very well depend on what is on the &quot;standardized test&quot; and (ii) may also reflect an (assumed) fact that people who are currently engaged in &quot;home schooling&quot; are more engaged in their childrens&#039; education than a larger group of people whose children are in public schools.  The latter might not scale very well.

BTW, I thought this post was serious until I ran across

&gt;constrained by the whims of an &lt;b&gt;out-of-control judiciary&lt;/b&gt;

Given the fact, which should be obvious to any idiot, that the judiciary is not &quot;out of control,&quot; it&#039;s fairly clear that this site isn&#039;t serious at all.  I guess the proprietor of the site has never heard of legislation, much less constitutional amendments.

Go talk amongst yourselves, dears.  But don&#039;t take yourselves too seriously.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>>And an increasing number are simply home schooling the kids, sheltering them from the world even more substantially. Both of these trends disturb me on some level. The early evidence, however, seems to indicate that my fears are unwarranted. Home-schooled kids are doing quite well on standardized tests as compared to their public-schooled cohort, for example. </p>
<p>Um, any idiot would tell you that, to the extent to which this is correct--something that is highly questionable--this (i) may very well depend on what is on the "standardized test" and (ii) may also reflect an (assumed) fact that people who are currently engaged in "home schooling" are more engaged in their childrens' education than a larger group of people whose children are in public schools.  The latter might not scale very well.</p>
<p>BTW, I thought this post was serious until I ran across</p>
<p>>constrained by the whims of an <b>out-of-control judiciary</b></p>
<p>Given the fact, which should be obvious to any idiot, that the judiciary is not "out of control," it's fairly clear that this site isn't serious at all.  I guess the proprietor of the site has never heard of legislation, much less constitutional amendments.</p>
<p>Go talk amongst yourselves, dears.  But don't take yourselves too seriously.</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/parental_rights/comment-page-1/#comment-9844</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=4433#comment-9844</guid>
		<description>raj,

Have you spent even, oh, ten minutes studying constitutional law? Court decisions based on their interpretation of the Constitution--which most parental rights cases turn out to be, mainly on 1st Amendment grounds--are not overturnable by simple legislation.  And formal amendment to the Constitution is phenomenally difficult, requiring a 2/3 vote in both Houses of Congress and approval by 3/4 of the states, either by their legislatures or by conventions.  This is so difficult that it&#039;s only happened 27 times in the 215 year history of the Constitution--and 10 of the 27 were passed as a package called the Bill of Rights.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>raj,</p>
<p>Have you spent even, oh, ten minutes studying constitutional law? Court decisions based on their interpretation of the Constitution--which most parental rights cases turn out to be, mainly on 1st Amendment grounds--are not overturnable by simple legislation.  And formal amendment to the Constitution is phenomenally difficult, requiring a 2/3 vote in both Houses of Congress and approval by 3/4 of the states, either by their legislatures or by conventions.  This is so difficult that it's only happened 27 times in the 215 year history of the Constitution--and 10 of the 27 were passed as a package called the Bill of Rights.</p>
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		<title>By: raj</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/parental_rights/comment-page-1/#comment-9845</link>
		<dc:creator>raj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=4433#comment-9845</guid>
		<description>James Joyner at January 1, 2004 09:45 AM

&gt;Have you spent even, oh, ten minutes studying constitutional law? 

Well, yes, of course, given that I&#039;m a lawyer.  Constitutional law is a first year law school subject.  

I&#039;ve also spent more than ten minutes reading the kvetches on silly web sites about the supposed &quot;out of control judiciary.&quot;

As I said, go talk amongst yourselves.  But don&#039;t take yourselves too seriously.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James Joyner at January 1, 2004 09:45 AM</p>
<p>>Have you spent even, oh, ten minutes studying constitutional law? </p>
<p>Well, yes, of course, given that I'm a lawyer.  Constitutional law is a first year law school subject.  </p>
<p>I've also spent more than ten minutes reading the kvetches on silly web sites about the supposed "out of control judiciary."</p>
<p>As I said, go talk amongst yourselves.  But don't take yourselves too seriously.</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/parental_rights/comment-page-1/#comment-9846</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=4433#comment-9846</guid>
		<description>Wow, how impressive for you! Did they actually teach you about the Constitution, or just have you memorize judicial opinions?

Did they, for example, actually have you read Article III?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, how impressive for you! Did they actually teach you about the Constitution, or just have you memorize judicial opinions?</p>
<p>Did they, for example, actually have you read Article III?</p>
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		<title>By: raj</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/parental_rights/comment-page-1/#comment-9847</link>
		<dc:creator>raj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=4433#comment-9847</guid>
		<description>Not only have I read Article III, I have also read the Federalist Papers regarding the Judicial branch.  

If you have a particular kvetch regarding this supposed &quot;out of control judiciary&quot;, perhaps you might want to consider posting it.  Generalized kvetching isn&#039;t helpful for much of anyone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not only have I read Article III, I have also read the Federalist Papers regarding the Judicial branch.  </p>
<p>If you have a particular kvetch regarding this supposed "out of control judiciary", perhaps you might want to consider posting it.  Generalized kvetching isn't helpful for much of anyone.</p>
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		<title>By: raj</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/parental_rights/comment-page-1/#comment-9848</link>
		<dc:creator>raj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=4433#comment-9848</guid>
		<description>BTW, it apparently has escaped your attention, but the fact is that the various states also have constitutions, and the fact is also that the requirements for amendments vary among those various states.  CA&#039;s constitution appears to be relatively easy to amend.  MA&#039;s a little less so.

The federal constitution isn&#039;t the only one around.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTW, it apparently has escaped your attention, but the fact is that the various states also have constitutions, and the fact is also that the requirements for amendments vary among those various states.  CA's constitution appears to be relatively easy to amend.  MA's a little less so.</p>
<p>The federal constitution isn't the only one around.</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/parental_rights/comment-page-1/#comment-9849</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=4433#comment-9849</guid>
		<description>Good to hear; I&#039;m under the impression many law school con-law classes are devoted almost entirely to rulings from the bench.

I&#039;ve got an entire archive category on Law and The Courts and have posted at length on the topic; I don&#039;t detail the arguments every time I write a post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good to hear; I'm under the impression many law school con-law classes are devoted almost entirely to rulings from the bench.</p>
<p>I've got an entire archive category on Law and The Courts and have posted at length on the topic; I don't detail the arguments every time I write a post.</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/parental_rights/comment-page-1/#comment-9850</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=4433#comment-9850</guid>
		<description>And, yes, there are state constitutions interpreted by state judges. But creative interpretations of the 14th Amendment often trump those. There was enough judicial overreach just in the Florida recount fiasco to frustrate both the Left and the Right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And, yes, there are state constitutions interpreted by state judges. But creative interpretations of the 14th Amendment often trump those. There was enough judicial overreach just in the Florida recount fiasco to frustrate both the Left and the Right.</p>
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		<title>By: raj</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/parental_rights/comment-page-1/#comment-9851</link>
		<dc:creator>raj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=4433#comment-9851</guid>
		<description>&quot;I&#039;ve got an entire archive category on Law and The Courts and have posted at length on the topic; I don&#039;t detail the arguments every time I write a post.&quot;

Well, you know, that&#039;s what links are for.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"I've got an entire archive category on Law and The Courts and have posted at length on the topic; I don't detail the arguments every time I write a post."</p>
<p>Well, you know, that's what links are for.</p>
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		<title>By: raj</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/parental_rights/comment-page-1/#comment-9852</link>
		<dc:creator>raj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=4433#comment-9852</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s getting a little late here in Munich.

I&#039;ll check in here in the morning.  But I haven&#039;t seen much other than the usual kvetching that I see in the &quot;blogosphere.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It's getting a little late here in Munich.</p>
<p>I'll check in here in the morning.  But I haven't seen much other than the usual kvetching that I see in the "blogosphere."</p>
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		<title>By: raj</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/parental_rights/comment-page-1/#comment-9853</link>
		<dc:creator>raj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=4433#comment-9853</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s getting a little late here in Munich.

I&#039;ll check in here in the morning.  But I haven&#039;t seen much other than the usual kvetching that I see in the &quot;blogosphere.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It's getting a little late here in Munich.</p>
<p>I'll check in here in the morning.  But I haven't seen much other than the usual kvetching that I see in the "blogosphere."</p>
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