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	<title>Comments on: Philadelphia Considers Wireless Internet for All</title>
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		<title>By: 42nd SSD</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/philadelphia_considers_wireless_internet_for_all/comment-page-1/#comment-23288</link>
		<dc:creator>42nd SSD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Sep 2004 02:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=7360#comment-23288</guid>
		<description>This sounds like a nice idea, but making it work reliably and providing enough bandwidth are going to be serious challenges.  The wider the area covered the more people will sign up--and we don&#039;t have nearly enough experience with providing WiFi coverage to thousands of simultaneous users in any given area.  There are also some huge security concerns, given the insecurity of WiFi encryption and the relative difficulty of setting up something like IPSEC.

I do think projects like this can benefit from government sponsorship, as it&#039;s too expensive for a startup to try and fit zillions of repeaters on top of lightpoles.  Ricochet is sort of an example of this problem, but perhaps not the best one. (They were a bit ahead of their time, tried to grow the business far too quickly, and their focus was totally on the wrong group of users.  If they&#039;d concentrated on the SFBay area they would&#039;ve done alright.)

The downside of having the government involved is the inevitable censorship issues.  &quot;No pr0n!  No bomb plans!  No [blah blah]!  No file swapping!&quot;  Etc.

I beliee GPRS/GSM will win out over WiFi in the long term, at least for this sort of network.  (Obviously at home and in businesses people will continue to use something like WiFi.)  The cell providers already have experience with accomodating many simultaneous users, and their billing model allows them to handle relatively limited amounts of bandwidth.  Cellular has far better range and coverage and has the bonus that it serves both data and voice with reasonable latencies.  WiFi was never intended for handling these sorts of problems.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This sounds like a nice idea, but making it work reliably and providing enough bandwidth are going to be serious challenges.  The wider the area covered the more people will sign up--and we don't have nearly enough experience with providing WiFi coverage to thousands of simultaneous users in any given area.  There are also some huge security concerns, given the insecurity of WiFi encryption and the relative difficulty of setting up something like IPSEC.</p>
<p>I do think projects like this can benefit from government sponsorship, as it's too expensive for a startup to try and fit zillions of repeaters on top of lightpoles.  Ricochet is sort of an example of this problem, but perhaps not the best one. (They were a bit ahead of their time, tried to grow the business far too quickly, and their focus was totally on the wrong group of users.  If they'd concentrated on the SFBay area they would've done alright.)</p>
<p>The downside of having the government involved is the inevitable censorship issues.  "No pr0n!  No bomb plans!  No [blah blah]!  No file swapping!"  Etc.</p>
<p>I beliee GPRS/GSM will win out over WiFi in the long term, at least for this sort of network.  (Obviously at home and in businesses people will continue to use something like WiFi.)  The cell providers already have experience with accomodating many simultaneous users, and their billing model allows them to handle relatively limited amounts of bandwidth.  Cellular has far better range and coverage and has the bonus that it serves both data and voice with reasonable latencies.  WiFi was never intended for handling these sorts of problems.</p>
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		<title>By: The Lonewacko Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/philadelphia_considers_wireless_internet_for_all/comment-page-1/#comment-23243</link>
		<dc:creator>The Lonewacko Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Sep 2004 22:30:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=7360#comment-23243</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt; Iâm moving to Philly. Porn, faster, cheaper. Brilliant.&lt;/i&gt;

If Philly offered free city-wide wireless, no one else could compete. They would be the only game in town. And, they&#039;d probably start nibbling at the edges of freedom and work inward. Sure, soft-core porn might not be a problem, but what if Rusty starts downloading the stuff that&#039;s legal but a bit harder?

What if Rusty peruses a bunch of .cn web sites?

Your ISP and google is bad enough, I don&#039;t want the government keeping track of my web habits. And, given past instances, that&#039;s probably what would end up happening.

Note also that, AFAIK, wireless cards send their MAC address, and that&#039;s a universal identifier. It might not tie into a specific person, but that might be able to be determined by going from the manufacturer, back to the retail store, back to your credit card. In any case, the MAC address would allow them to track all traffic from and to that same address.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i> Iâm moving to Philly. Porn, faster, cheaper. Brilliant.</i></p>
<p>If Philly offered free city-wide wireless, no one else could compete. They would be the only game in town. And, they'd probably start nibbling at the edges of freedom and work inward. Sure, soft-core porn might not be a problem, but what if Rusty starts downloading the stuff that's legal but a bit harder?</p>
<p>What if Rusty peruses a bunch of .cn web sites?</p>
<p>Your ISP and google is bad enough, I don't want the government keeping track of my web habits. And, given past instances, that's probably what would end up happening.</p>
<p>Note also that, AFAIK, wireless cards send their MAC address, and that's a universal identifier. It might not tie into a specific person, but that might be able to be determined by going from the manufacturer, back to the retail store, back to your credit card. In any case, the MAC address would allow them to track all traffic from and to that same address.</p>
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		<title>By: Kalblog</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/philadelphia_considers_wireless_internet_for_all/comment-page-1/#comment-23183</link>
		<dc:creator>Kalblog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Sep 2004 00:15:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=7360#comment-23183</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Philly Unwired?&lt;/strong&gt;
Aside from James Joyner&#039;s concerns about setting up a wireless network in Philly, I&#039;ve got my own. The big one is security. If they&#039;re going to make the network universally accessable, it has to be easy to log on. That...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Philly Unwired?</strong><br />
Aside from James Joyner's concerns about setting up a wireless network in Philly, I've got my own. The big one is security. If they're going to make the network universally accessable, it has to be easy to log on. That...</p>
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		<title>By: A Stitch in Haste</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/philadelphia_considers_wireless_internet_for_all/comment-page-1/#comment-23172</link>
		<dc:creator>A Stitch in Haste</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Sep 2004 22:00:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=7360#comment-23172</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Philadelphia&#039;s Rocky Wi-Fi Proposal&lt;/strong&gt;
Besides the fact that wireless access is not a public good -- therefore there is no rational basis for the government offering it -- how long do you think it would be before liberals demand...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Philadelphia's Rocky Wi-Fi Proposal</strong><br />
Besides the fact that wireless access is not a public good -- therefore there is no rational basis for the government offering it -- how long do you think it would be before liberals demand...</p>
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		<title>By: Rusty</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/philadelphia_considers_wireless_internet_for_all/comment-page-1/#comment-23165</link>
		<dc:creator>Rusty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Sep 2004 21:18:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=7360#comment-23165</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m moving to Philly.  Porn, faster, cheaper.  Brilliant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'm moving to Philly.  Porn, faster, cheaper.  Brilliant.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/philadelphia_considers_wireless_internet_for_all/comment-page-1/#comment-23160</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Sep 2004 20:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=7360#comment-23160</guid>
		<description>A small company I do some work with just signed a contract to put in a wireless backbone that will tie together every water treatment plant in Northwest Arkansas (some EPA thing). The end result will be that about 1/8th of the state will be a giant wireless hotspot in the next eighteen months or so. It started as a government thing, but has already grown with companies like Tyson wanting to tap into it and share some of the costs. A lot of grand visions fail simply because they are too grand. Bit-size chunks seem to be more workable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A small company I do some work with just signed a contract to put in a wireless backbone that will tie together every water treatment plant in Northwest Arkansas (some EPA thing). The end result will be that about 1/8th of the state will be a giant wireless hotspot in the next eighteen months or so. It started as a government thing, but has already grown with companies like Tyson wanting to tap into it and share some of the costs. A lot of grand visions fail simply because they are too grand. Bit-size chunks seem to be more workable.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/philadelphia_considers_wireless_internet_for_all/comment-page-1/#comment-23158</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Sep 2004 20:30:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=7360#comment-23158</guid>
		<description>Ubiquitous &quot;high-speed&quot; wireless is clearly going to be expensive to deploy, witness the bankruptcy of Ricochet and the failure of cellular companies to really deploy &quot;3G&quot;.  I suspect any large free zones are either going to be unreliable or very slow once large numbers of users start trying to use it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ubiquitous "high-speed" wireless is clearly going to be expensive to deploy, witness the bankruptcy of Ricochet and the failure of cellular companies to really deploy "3G".  I suspect any large free zones are either going to be unreliable or very slow once large numbers of users start trying to use it.</p>
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		<title>By: Tiger</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/philadelphia_considers_wireless_internet_for_all/comment-page-1/#comment-23144</link>
		<dc:creator>Tiger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Sep 2004 19:13:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=7360#comment-23144</guid>
		<description>But then again, it, like ever&#039;thin&#039; else, may come under the control of Walmart, anyway, which will effectively stifle any competitive market. In speculatin&#039; the future, the field is always wide open. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But then again, it, like ever'thin' else, may come under the control of Walmart, anyway, which will effectively stifle any competitive market. In speculatin' the future, the field is always wide open. ;)</p>
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