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	<title>Comments on: Race Riots and Assimilation</title>
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		<title>By: Bithead</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/race_riots_and_assimilation_/comment-page-1/#comment-241411</link>
		<dc:creator>Bithead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2007 15:17:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Excellent points, cas.

Boil them both down, however, and they come out , the both of them, to the idea that there are a large number of people within this country who figure our culture isn&#039;t worth adopting. Usually, these are the same people who are actively calling for &quot;cultural diversity&quot;, and using the power of government to enforce it.

Interestingly enough, many of these are educators in the government school system.  Do you begin to see the scope of the problem?  I mean, when a bunch of social liberals in charge of imparting our culture&#039;s values to young minds full of mush seems on its face to be counterproductive at least.  Add to this, the move of late to teach the values of other cultures, to the exclusion of our own, in the name of &quot;diversity&quot; and you have a surefire recipe for cultural disaster.  

I don&#039;t know if I&#039;m going to suggest that it was designed this way, but if someone was about destroying our culture here, and for minting war, as a result, they could hardly be more effective about it, than what has developed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent points, cas.</p>
<p>Boil them both down, however, and they come out , the both of them, to the idea that there are a large number of people within this country who figure our culture isn't worth adopting. Usually, these are the same people who are actively calling for "cultural diversity", and using the power of government to enforce it.</p>
<p>Interestingly enough, many of these are educators in the government school system.  Do you begin to see the scope of the problem?  I mean, when a bunch of social liberals in charge of imparting our culture's values to young minds full of mush seems on its face to be counterproductive at least.  Add to this, the move of late to teach the values of other cultures, to the exclusion of our own, in the name of "diversity" and you have a surefire recipe for cultural disaster.  </p>
<p>I don't know if I'm going to suggest that it was designed this way, but if someone was about destroying our culture here, and for minting war, as a result, they could hardly be more effective about it, than what has developed.</p>
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		<title>By: cas</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/race_riots_and_assimilation_/comment-page-1/#comment-241360</link>
		<dc:creator>cas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2007 13:51:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Some thoughts on the problem of &quot;assimilation&quot;:
1.) First, there needs to be consensus by the assimilating society as to the cultural norms that the immigrants are accepting. I wonder if that is the case anymore (as it used to be), either in Western Europe, or in America, in this &quot;multi-cultural&quot; era.
2.) Second, one of the fundamental justifications for the rise of government-sponsored (and financed) mandatory public schooling was to accomplish this &quot;climatization&quot; of the children of immigrants; it&#039;s my belief that our (U.S.) current public school system is completely failing at this task, regardless of the &quot;immigration status&quot; of the parents of these children. I do not know how well the Western European, particularly the French, school systems, are doing on this task...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some thoughts on the problem of "assimilation":<br />
1.) First, there needs to be consensus by the assimilating society as to the cultural norms that the immigrants are accepting. I wonder if that is the case anymore (as it used to be), either in Western Europe, or in America, in this "multi-cultural" era.<br />
2.) Second, one of the fundamental justifications for the rise of government-sponsored (and financed) mandatory public schooling was to accomplish this "climatization" of the children of immigrants; it's my belief that our (U.S.) current public school system is completely failing at this task, regardless of the "immigration status" of the parents of these children. I do not know how well the Western European, particularly the French, school systems, are doing on this task...</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/race_riots_and_assimilation_/comment-page-1/#comment-241288</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:23:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/11/race_riots_and_assimilation_/#comment-241288</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Germany has liberalized their citizenship law so that Turkish citizens born in Germany now have a much easier path to citizenship that was only recently the case.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Interesting!  I hadn&#039;t heard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Germany has liberalized their citizenship law so that Turkish citizens born in Germany now have a much easier path to citizenship that was only recently the case.</p></blockquote>
<p>Interesting!  I hadn't heard.</p>
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		<title>By: Consul-At-Arms</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/race_riots_and_assimilation_/comment-page-1/#comment-240942</link>
		<dc:creator>Consul-At-Arms</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2007 04:21:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/11/race_riots_and_assimilation_/#comment-240942</guid>
		<description>&quot;&lt;em&gt;even a third generation German-born Turk is still a Turk, not a German.&lt;/em&gt;&quot;

Germany has liberalized their citizenship law so that Turkish citizens born in Germany now have a much easier path to citizenship that was only recently the case.

Whether they&#039;re &quot;assimilated&quot; or socially-accepted as &quot;Germans&quot; is another matter, but legally their status becomes the same.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"<em>even a third generation German-born Turk is still a Turk, not a German.</em>"</p>
<p>Germany has liberalized their citizenship law so that Turkish citizens born in Germany now have a much easier path to citizenship that was only recently the case.</p>
<p>Whether they're "assimilated" or socially-accepted as "Germans" is another matter, but legally their status becomes the same.</p>
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		<title>By: Bithead</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/race_riots_and_assimilation_/comment-page-1/#comment-240792</link>
		<dc:creator>Bithead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2007 01:36:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/11/race_riots_and_assimilation_/#comment-240792</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Quite. I&#039;m open to ideas other than birthright citizenship but I think it&#039;s the best tool at hand.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The word you&#039;re looking for is &quot;Culture&quot;.

Past that,  we need first to recognize that the people responsible for the rioting, are the rioters, and none other.


So, here it is: If you (editorial you) insist on taking the blame for something incidental to those riots, the issue to take the blame for is not that we haven&#039;t given them enough chance in the society, we&#039;ve given repeated chances... that they&#039;ve for the most part never taken us up on. It&#039;s not that we haven&#039;t given them a stake in society, it&#039;s that we have not made clear that we expected them to live up to their responsibilities to society. Including, their behavior. Every time we&#039;ve given then additional chances because of membership in a chosen subgroup, we&#039;ve sent the signal that acting out of line is OK because they&#039;re part of that particular sub-group that the left has decided needs &#039;help&#039; and &quot;understanding&quot;.

We in the west have allowed our minority populations to remain isolated in the cultures they&#039;ve chosen to remain in, all in the name of &quot;diversity&quot;, of course... and in doing so, we&#039;ve removed the chances for such people to thrive in our culture. As a result of those &#039;extra chances&#039;, they&#039;re not members of the culture. 

They&#039;re not expected to act like an American (or, French) citizen culturally, so why in the world should be be shocked when they meet our expectations and behave like something other than citizens, and try to take us over, culturally speaking?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Quite. I'm open to ideas other than birthright citizenship but I think it's the best tool at hand.
</p></blockquote>
<p>The word you're looking for is "Culture".</p>
<p>Past that,  we need first to recognize that the people responsible for the rioting, are the rioters, and none other.</p>
<p>So, here it is: If you (editorial you) insist on taking the blame for something incidental to those riots, the issue to take the blame for is not that we haven't given them enough chance in the society, we've given repeated chances... that they've for the most part never taken us up on. It's not that we haven't given them a stake in society, it's that we have not made clear that we expected them to live up to their responsibilities to society. Including, their behavior. Every time we've given then additional chances because of membership in a chosen subgroup, we've sent the signal that acting out of line is OK because they're part of that particular sub-group that the left has decided needs 'help' and "understanding".</p>
<p>We in the west have allowed our minority populations to remain isolated in the cultures they've chosen to remain in, all in the name of "diversity", of course... and in doing so, we've removed the chances for such people to thrive in our culture. As a result of those 'extra chances', they're not members of the culture. </p>
<p>They're not expected to act like an American (or, French) citizen culturally, so why in the world should be be shocked when they meet our expectations and behave like something other than citizens, and try to take us over, culturally speaking?</p>
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		<title>By: jpe</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/race_riots_and_assimilation_/comment-page-1/#comment-240722</link>
		<dc:creator>jpe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2007 00:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Saying it&#039;s all about assimilation, I think, misses the broader identity politics at work.  America&#039;s model, that of leaving people alone large, has proven very successful.  By contrast, the assimilation-at-all-costs model of European identity has backfired time and time again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Saying it's all about assimilation, I think, misses the broader identity politics at work.  America's model, that of leaving people alone large, has proven very successful.  By contrast, the assimilation-at-all-costs model of European identity has backfired time and time again.</p>
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		<title>By: DC Loser</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/race_riots_and_assimilation_/comment-page-1/#comment-240562</link>
		<dc:creator>DC Loser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2007 22:02:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I haven&#039;t seen anyone make the case the rioters in France don&#039;t speak French.  Practically all of them speak fluent French AFAIK, though of the modern patois of the ghetto where they live.  They are the ones giving rise to the very angry French rap music that are very popular amongst that demographic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven't seen anyone make the case the rioters in France don't speak French.  Practically all of them speak fluent French AFAIK, though of the modern patois of the ghetto where they live.  They are the ones giving rise to the very angry French rap music that are very popular amongst that demographic.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/race_riots_and_assimilation_/comment-page-1/#comment-240473</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2007 20:43:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>One of the problems there, as stated, is language. As long as everyone is not speaking the same language how can they be considered &quot;one&quot;. I have no problem with people speaking different languages. My wife (Swedish) and I (USA) speak several ourselves. But for day-to-day transactions here in the USA you need to be able to speak and understand English. I am not trying to be rascist or isolationist, just saying that to truly be a melting pot you need the ingredients to blend...and you all need to be able to read the recipe.

And the recipe in France is written in French...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the problems there, as stated, is language. As long as everyone is not speaking the same language how can they be considered "one". I have no problem with people speaking different languages. My wife (Swedish) and I (USA) speak several ourselves. But for day-to-day transactions here in the USA you need to be able to speak and understand English. I am not trying to be rascist or isolationist, just saying that to truly be a melting pot you need the ingredients to blend...and you all need to be able to read the recipe.</p>
<p>And the recipe in France is written in French...</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Schuler</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/race_riots_and_assimilation_/comment-page-1/#comment-240433</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Schuler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2007 19:45:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/11/race_riots_and_assimilation_/#comment-240433</guid>
		<description>Quite.  I&#039;m open to ideas other than birthright citizenship but I think it&#039;s the best tool at hand.

As I&#039;ve written back at my place any number of times, the European states that have traditionally defined themselves ethnically are in a pickle.  Too bad they haven&#039;t come to the realization yet that our experience in this particular area is vastly more than theirs.

One thing that ought to be mentioned:  what&#039;s going on in France isn&#039;t just a sudden unexpected flareup.  They&#039;ve had carburnings and minor incidents all along for the last couple of years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quite.  I'm open to ideas other than birthright citizenship but I think it's the best tool at hand.</p>
<p>As I've written back at my place any number of times, the European states that have traditionally defined themselves ethnically are in a pickle.  Too bad they haven't come to the realization yet that our experience in this particular area is vastly more than theirs.</p>
<p>One thing that ought to be mentioned:  what's going on in France isn't just a sudden unexpected flareup.  They've had carburnings and minor incidents all along for the last couple of years.</p>
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