So, in your rebuttal you constantly refer to the Administration as idiots. Thank you for making my point. Not a lot of thinking going on for you right now, huh? And point to me where McCain was one of the crazies insiting Bush "lied" about MWDs, or planned 9/11, or was only going to Iraq to avenge his daddy, etc. None of that is in an way loyal opposition.

anonymous guy who finds himself inexplicably amusing.

wrong and right,,,,,
1345 Deane blvd Racine WI, And I have a very good time being inexplicable....

And ya you don't look chubby at all in the video and sorry about the small mind thing, I couldn't tell if you had one under that Flowing black raven feathered glimmering mantle of radiance, Hot damn Conan!!!

Krauthammer

Yea, caught it on Fox today. Good for a few yuks, if nothing else.

most of them didn't hear

Right. Because they don't have the internets...

I've already addressed this

The thing is, you have to address it in a credible manner...

First, Saddam's toppling. That was done by the US, not the Iraqi's. It resulted in at least 100,000 Iraqi deaths and 1,000,000 refugees. It is still not a settled dispute, especially with the Kurds. Why would the Iranians want to follow this example? Shouldnt you see this being cited by the Iranians themselves?

Afghanistan. Again, the US toppled the Taliban. The elections meant little to most Afghanis. They now have an incredibly, even by the standards of the area, inept and corrupt government. One of the main reasons the Taliban has been able to reassert itself, has been the awful government there. The take home message here? The US can get rid of your government, but the new one will be just as bad, only in a different way.

Just because we invaded two countries in that area, does not mean everything that happens there is a necessary result. To make that claim you need to provide some linkage. One may as well claim that the Mumbai killings were our fault.

BTW, which foreign countries do you think have any credible power to sway Iran's current administration?

Steve

What specifically about the Iraq war do you think started things? After all, the people of Iran have taken to the streets and overthrown a bad government before, so trying to somehow credit Bush is pretty laughable.

I've already addressed this, and so has Krauthammer.

Meanwhile, we're supposed to understand that the opposition movements that have been building since the Iraq invasion and before..in Iran and obviously rigged election, were not the triggers. No, it was Obama's speech in Cairo, which most of them didn't hear.

Riiiiggght.

Lemme guess... you sell used cars, right?

What specifically in his Cairo speech do you think responsible for having started the events in Iran?

What specifically about the Iraq war do you think started things? After all, the people of Iran have taken to the streets and overthrown a bad government before, so trying to somehow credit Bush is pretty laughable.

Obama was doing direct outreach to the people in Iran even before he won the election. Am I going to waste time trying to convince you? Nope. Your ideology will not let you give Obama credit for anything. Run along bit. Go check out Red State, Captain Ed, and Malkin, so they can tell you what you think. Oh, and don't forget "The American Thinker". Then you can pronounce yourself the winner of yet another blog joust. Its about as predictable as a sunrise, just not nearly as pretty :)

Do you have a clue? How much time went by between Obama's Cairo speech (you know, the one the right dismissed) and the start of the protests in Iran?

OK, this oughta be good for a laugh..

What specifically in his Cairo speech do you think responsible for having started the events in Iran?

you have no clue about soft power

Do you have a clue? How much time went by between Obama's Cairo speech (you know, the one the right dismissed) and the start of the protests in Iran?

But no, wait. The people in Iran are rising up because Mr. Bush invaded Iraq, what, 7 years ago...

Thanks, did not know about a couple of those. Great now I'll never get any work done.

I supported the Iraq war precisely on the hope that it would have a transformative effect.

If we can take the events in Iran and in Pakistan and in Lebanon as indicative, I'd suggest it's arguable that it has been so.

I suspect the greater influence has been the ubiquity of modern communications. Iranians see how much better off the rest of the world is. And more to the point, their economy is a mess which tends to motivate people.

I wonder a bit on that point. I suppose regional matter are the stronger influence. GRanted that comms help things there along, but I think the events I cited in the region are the more powerful in injecting change in the rest of the region, given the similar cultural influences. Saying Canada's a free country doesn't hit home nearly as hard to an Iranian, I suspect, than does saying Iraq is.

How, Phil, would more rhetoric from Obama help the demonstrators?

It would add pressure on the remainder of the world to follow suit and it would also add pressure against the current regime. That you don't see both those things in a big positive light tells me you have no taste for freedom, and/or you have no clue about soft power.

suspect you and I both wish we could be on the streets in Tehran right now, and that we'd both have some small measure of the courage those kids are showing.

Well phrased. You see the one where they stormed the local basiji HQ? Stones.

I'll tell you one thing: I have come away with an enormous respect for the Iranian people. I hope we don't ever have to fight these people. They're brave, they're strong, and they would make admirable friends and allies.

That's pretty much the point I was making in bullet 3, Michael. If they win, I'd sure like for them to think kindly of us. I believe that a simple official recognition of their courage would go a long way. Our silence is misconstrued, our vague statements are mistranslated - why not just stand up for the right and good?

If those beliefs make me a neocon, well, by God I'm a neocon and proud of it. If it makes me a liberal (in the tradition of Mill), then that's what I am.