Comments on: “Real” Conservatism Redux

By: Odograph.com » Blog Archive » Farmers and Oil

Odograph.com » Blog Archive » Farmers and Oil — Mon, 24 Oct 2005 20:09:11 +0000

[...] It is an interesting dynamic, but I think I might break another way - by empowering the populist wing of the Republican party. [...]

By: odograph

odograph — Thu, 20 Oct 2005 14:57:41 +0000

What I'm saying is that if you see him as left of you ... and I see him as right of me ... he must be somewhere in-between.

Unless he's on some other scale. I guess there are people who suggest that too, that it is just pointless politicing, or corporate dealmaking, or ???

By: Bithead

Bithead — Thu, 20 Oct 2005 14:43:53 +0000

THe thing you're missing here is one the far right missed, too. Bush wasn't pretending.

By: odograph

odograph — Thu, 20 Oct 2005 14:33:51 +0000

I read your link. I've been thinking about pendulums also this week, though from the perspective of a "cheated moderate" Republican. To be honest I abstained from the 2000 Presidential vote because I thought they both were knuckleheads. I did have a hope though, as Bush and Gore both pretended so hard to be moderates in the final weeks of the election, that if elected they would act like one. From my moderate perspective, I don't think that happened. I voted against Bush in 2004 for the "truth in democracy, especially as concerns war" issue. It is actually kind of hard for me to deduce all of the Bush admin's motivations, but the rough and tumble of their game goes beyond that. I really don't think you can have a functioning democracy with an institutional disrespect for truth and reason (and yes, science).

By: Bithead

Bithead — Thu, 20 Oct 2005 14:10:18 +0000

... with respect to being forced to Kerry â¦ thatâs a real problem. Unfortunately the answer, a shake up in parties, or third parties strong enough to influence the big two â¦ seems unlikely.

So it does, wherein lies the point. So, we need to work with what we have. I've been thinking on this point for some days now as I've watching the bitching get louder about the Republcans, from the right. I'm convinced that the changes will come, but slowly.... But that will happen only if the right is willing to see the journey through. And frankly, the attitudes I'm seeing right now are not encouraging.

By: odograph

odograph — Thu, 20 Oct 2005 13:06:12 +0000

In case it isn't clear, I think there are people who suffer this effect at both ends of the political spectrum. At both ends "party stalwarts" influence the behavior of the elected, but they also are left to guess how much influence they have. That's because they are not addressed during much of the election cycle. Their votes are already counted. The election is pitched toward the "undecided" who are by definition more moderate. ... of course it is also a drag to be a moderate and discover how much was cheap talk ;-/

By: odograph

odograph — Thu, 20 Oct 2005 12:55:39 +0000

It's only real as far as there are absolutists out there. If you are "pretty sure" or "really likely" to choose Republican, that's fine. What I'm speaking to are those folks who are are so sure they'd be willing to mail off their absentee ballots now, without even knowing who was going to be nominated by either party. ... with respect to being forced to Kerry ... that's a real problem. Unfortunately the answer, a shake up in parties, or third parties strong enough to influence the big two ... seems unlikely.

By: Bithead

Bithead — Thu, 20 Oct 2005 12:43:53 +0000

Oh, please, Odo.
I understand your point, but it operates without the force of reality behind it. What is it you're suggesting... that because Bush isn't as conservative as I'd like, that I'd have been better served by putting the socialists like Kerry, and Gore, in power again?

By: odograph

odograph — Thu, 20 Oct 2005 11:35:46 +0000

The risk of populism is the possible slide to tribalism or ... let's face it, nationalism. I am a lifelong conservative and Republican (I know, you know), but I've had some interesting discussions with other Republicans. They tell me they'd always vote Republican, no matter what. I'd ask, doesn't that limit your power, your ability to influence events? They didn't understand me. They didn't quite get that when you are a guaranteed vote, you can be led anywhere. Particularly at this time (with the possible Cheney Cabal, etc.) I think it is important to state the fundimentals - that truth and reason are the foundation of democracy. The danger of populism/tribalism I think was proven in the last election, when basically truth was put on the back burner, and too many people voted tribal issues that are secondary. I mean, name your hot button issue ... no matter what it is, it is not safe without a functioning democracy ... and that is what is at risk, not just by "crimes" but also by any vote (for 2008?) which is "already in the bag."

By: DL

DL — Thu, 20 Oct 2005 09:53:14 +0000

In a system such as ours, having millions of people with conservative tendencies, but somewhat of an evolving understanding of that in which they believe, populism is a necessary tool to bring about the necessary change. While the elite or academic conservative is needed to corral the big picture, the populist approach tends to round up more horses.
I can barely tolerate O'(Pompous) Reilly, but see a real service being provided by Coulter. She, the masses can relate to. She's not fearful of offending anyone with truth. The fact is that most stodgy old conservatives are too kind and unable to say it like it is. (which is why PC works so well as a weapon against conservatives)

By: Jack Yoest

Jack Yoest — Thu, 20 Oct 2005 03:51:32 +0000

Miers: Getting Off the Laugh Track

David Gergen Once people start laughing at you, how does one get them to stop? This is the challenge Harriet Miers now faces. What can she do? What would you do? David Gergen was speaking to the Women and...