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	<title>Comments on: Renogiating Mortages</title>
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	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 22:17:13 -0600</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/renogiating_mortages/comment-page-1/#comment-986955</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 16:53:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=32503#comment-986955</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I get tired of most discussions about the housing crisis assuming that EVERY borrower in a pinch these days is by definition irresponsible.&lt;/blockquote&gt;Are you in a pinch?  If you can still make your mortgage payments, you&#039;re not irresponsible, and therefore not part of the problem.  In fact, your situation actually helps, because you can&#039;t add your house on an already over saturated market at a low price.

As yetanotherjohn stated, unless you plan on selling your house, it doesn&#039;t matter to you if you&#039;re underwater or not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I get tired of most discussions about the housing crisis assuming that EVERY borrower in a pinch these days is by definition irresponsible.</p></blockquote>
<p>Are you in a pinch?  If you can still make your mortgage payments, you're not irresponsible, and therefore not part of the problem.  In fact, your situation actually helps, because you can't add your house on an already over saturated market at a low price.</p>
<p>As yetanotherjohn stated, unless you plan on selling your house, it doesn't matter to you if you're underwater or not.</p>
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		<title>By: Danny Glover</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/renogiating_mortages/comment-page-1/#comment-986910</link>
		<dc:creator>Danny Glover</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 14:53:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>We made a substantial downpayment (21 percent) and would have purchased another 5.3 percent in equity over the next four-plus years had the housing market not tanked, and we&#039;re still underwater. That&#039;s how much housing prices have declined in our area -- way more than the 20 percent of this plan.

I get tired of most discussions about the housing crisis assuming that EVERY borrower in a pinch these days is by definition irresponsible. Responsible homeowners/borrowers have been hurt by this economy, too. And both the irresponsible borrowers and the irresponsible banks who lent them money are to blame.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We made a substantial downpayment (21 percent) and would have purchased another 5.3 percent in equity over the next four-plus years had the housing market not tanked, and we're still underwater. That's how much housing prices have declined in our area -- way more than the 20 percent of this plan.</p>
<p>I get tired of most discussions about the housing crisis assuming that EVERY borrower in a pinch these days is by definition irresponsible. Responsible homeowners/borrowers have been hurt by this economy, too. And both the irresponsible borrowers and the irresponsible banks who lent them money are to blame.</p>
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		<title>By: John425</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/renogiating_mortages/comment-page-1/#comment-986594</link>
		<dc:creator>John425</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 23:02:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Umm... In the above example--where is the money to add a bathroom coming from?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Umm... In the above example--where is the money to add a bathroom coming from?</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/renogiating_mortages/comment-page-1/#comment-986543</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 22:16:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=32503#comment-986543</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;What of those of us who put down a substantial down payment and so are not “under water”? &lt;/blockquote&gt;The problem is, that those of you were were responsible are not part of the problem, so helping you doesn&#039;t help the problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>What of those of us who put down a substantial down payment and so are not “under water”? </p></blockquote>
<p>The problem is, that those of you were were responsible are not part of the problem, so helping you doesn't help the problem.</p>
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		<title>By: HiItsNino</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/renogiating_mortages/comment-page-1/#comment-986467</link>
		<dc:creator>HiItsNino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 19:21:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=32503#comment-986467</guid>
		<description>This is a good idea, but I read an article about 5 years ago that was warning of the coming doom and the guy said something about an insurance policy that would cost about $5 at the closing table and it would insure you would never owe more than your home is worth if you sold it. I liked that idea too, but this one is more relevant after the fact....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a good idea, but I read an article about 5 years ago that was warning of the coming doom and the guy said something about an insurance policy that would cost about $5 at the closing table and it would insure you would never owe more than your home is worth if you sold it. I liked that idea too, but this one is more relevant after the fact....</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/renogiating_mortages/comment-page-1/#comment-986371</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 15:12:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I don&#039;t think there are going to be any solutions to this problem that will satisfy everyone involved.  There were too many people being irresponsible and I doubt that there is anything that can be done to &quot;fix&quot; that problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don't think there are going to be any solutions to this problem that will satisfy everyone involved.  There were too many people being irresponsible and I doubt that there is anything that can be done to "fix" that problem.</p>
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		<title>By: JKB</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/renogiating_mortages/comment-page-1/#comment-986366</link>
		<dc:creator>JKB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 14:57:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=32503#comment-986366</guid>
		<description>None of these plans are going to keep the false house prices up.  The false prices were set by a whole lot of incapable buyers purchasing at prices they had no hope of being able to pay at the terms of the contract.  Therefore, the prices are not set at the level that would be paid by a capable buyer of the asset.  

Trying to keep the incapable buyers or the deadbeats (those with the means to pay but choose to walk away) is a losing proposition.  They never were buyers in the the normal sense but rather speculators who are simply looking for a way to cut their losses or regain their expected profits.  Better to take the immediate price declines of foreclosure to get the properties in the hands of capable, responsible buyers.

In the end, regardless of the bailout foolishness, the false prices will be subsumed by inflation giving property owners the psychological cover that they are ahead when real values will actually be underwater.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>None of these plans are going to keep the false house prices up.  The false prices were set by a whole lot of incapable buyers purchasing at prices they had no hope of being able to pay at the terms of the contract.  Therefore, the prices are not set at the level that would be paid by a capable buyer of the asset.  </p>
<p>Trying to keep the incapable buyers or the deadbeats (those with the means to pay but choose to walk away) is a losing proposition.  They never were buyers in the the normal sense but rather speculators who are simply looking for a way to cut their losses or regain their expected profits.  Better to take the immediate price declines of foreclosure to get the properties in the hands of capable, responsible buyers.</p>
<p>In the end, regardless of the bailout foolishness, the false prices will be subsumed by inflation giving property owners the psychological cover that they are ahead when real values will actually be underwater.</p>
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		<title>By: yetanotherjohn</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/renogiating_mortages/comment-page-1/#comment-986360</link>
		<dc:creator>yetanotherjohn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 14:43:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=32503#comment-986360</guid>
		<description>Billy,

I think the idea of splitting the appreciation is to give both sides an incentive in the property. The bank won&#039;t maintain the house, the home owner will. So you want to keep the home owner happy.


The more general problem I have is, unless you are planning on selling, who cares if you are underwater on your house. I buy a house to live in. If I am underwater and can continue to make the payments, ok. Not great, but ok.

The issue is the 8% who can&#039;t/aren&#039;t paying their mortgage. If you have this deal, what percentage would then be able to pay their mortgage?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Billy,</p>
<p>I think the idea of splitting the appreciation is to give both sides an incentive in the property. The bank won't maintain the house, the home owner will. So you want to keep the home owner happy.</p>
<p>The more general problem I have is, unless you are planning on selling, who cares if you are underwater on your house. I buy a house to live in. If I am underwater and can continue to make the payments, ok. Not great, but ok.</p>
<p>The issue is the 8% who can't/aren't paying their mortgage. If you have this deal, what percentage would then be able to pay their mortgage?</p>
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		<title>By: A Note On &#8220;Moral Hazards&#8221; In Housing &#124; Heretical Ideas Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/renogiating_mortages/comment-page-1/#comment-986346</link>
		<dc:creator>A Note On &#8220;Moral Hazards&#8221; In Housing &#124; Heretical Ideas Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 14:00:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=32503#comment-986346</guid>
		<description>[...] are plenty of folks out there, like my colleague James Joyner, grousing about the &#8220;moral hazard&#8221; of various plans to help people avoid foreclosure. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] are plenty of folks out there, like my colleague James Joyner, grousing about the &#8220;moral hazard&#8221; of various plans to help people avoid foreclosure. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Billy</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/renogiating_mortages/comment-page-1/#comment-986345</link>
		<dc:creator>Billy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 13:59:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=32503#comment-986345</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t see why a lender who is forced to reduce loan amounts shouldn&#039;t get &lt;i&gt;100%&lt;/i&gt; of any appreciation, up to the full amount of the original loan.  This still allows underwater borrowers to get out of depreciated homes with a windfall in any amounts they don&#039;t have to pay back, but assuming housing prices eventually rebound, this means that nobody really gets a free ride.

I can only assume the IRS would be taxing the loan forgiveness as income as well...  I&#039;d like to see the look on people&#039;s faces when they realize they were just imputed $50,000.00 in income because the government bailed them out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don't see why a lender who is forced to reduce loan amounts shouldn't get <i>100%</i> of any appreciation, up to the full amount of the original loan.  This still allows underwater borrowers to get out of depreciated homes with a windfall in any amounts they don't have to pay back, but assuming housing prices eventually rebound, this means that nobody really gets a free ride.</p>
<p>I can only assume the IRS would be taxing the loan forgiveness as income as well...  I'd like to see the look on people's faces when they realize they were just imputed $50,000.00 in income because the government bailed them out.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Knapp</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/renogiating_mortages/comment-page-1/#comment-986344</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Knapp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 13:51:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Just as a devil&#039;s advocate argument though, what happens to the value of the house you own when you&#039;re alone on your block in a sea of foreclosed properties?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just as a devil's advocate argument though, what happens to the value of the house you own when you're alone on your block in a sea of foreclosed properties?</p>
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