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	<title>Comments on: Republicans Following Clinton Model?</title>
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		<title>By: NIF</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/republicans_following_clinton_model/comment-page-1/#comment-62181</link>
		<dc:creator>NIF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Oct 2005 01:12:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=12423#comment-62181</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Gonna be a long day!&lt;/strong&gt;

Today&#039;s dose of NIF - News, Interesting &amp; Funny ... a simple Wednesday edition (+ open trackbacks)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Gonna be a long day!</strong></p>
<p>Today's dose of NIF - News, Interesting &amp; Funny ... a simple Wednesday edition (+ open trackbacks)</p>
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		<title>By: Don Surber</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/republicans_following_clinton_model/comment-page-1/#comment-62029</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Surber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Oct 2005 04:14:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=12423#comment-62029</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;&quot;There are gradations of perjury&quot;&lt;/strong&gt;

When they cannot prove a crime in Washington, they prove a cover-up. And if someone complains, they cry hypocrisy. And so Howard Kurtz of CNN crying hypocrisy. His target, Kay Bailey Hutchison.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>"There are gradations of perjury"</strong></p>
<p>When they cannot prove a crime in Washington, they prove a cover-up. And if someone complains, they cry hypocrisy. And so Howard Kurtz of CNN crying hypocrisy. His target, Kay Bailey Hutchison.</p>
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		<title>By: odograph</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/republicans_following_clinton_model/comment-page-1/#comment-62003</link>
		<dc:creator>odograph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Oct 2005 22:37:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Seriously Anderson, do you think there has been a recent slide?  I remember a day when partisans would name &lt;i&gt;different&lt;/i&gt; truths.  In a world full of things that are true that&#039;s certainly possible.  All it takes is care to avoid arguing from the great list of things that are not true.

The difference today, with modern punditry, is that people simply name things (true &lt;b&gt;or&lt;/b&gt; false) as fast as they can, and very rarely back up for a correction.

Bottome line - yes there are many truths, but if you are going to cliam the higher ground, give me one of those truths, and not a lie.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seriously Anderson, do you think there has been a recent slide?  I remember a day when partisans would name <i>different</i> truths.  In a world full of things that are true that's certainly possible.  All it takes is care to avoid arguing from the great list of things that are not true.</p>
<p>The difference today, with modern punditry, is that people simply name things (true <b>or</b> false) as fast as they can, and very rarely back up for a correction.</p>
<p>Bottome line - yes there are many truths, but if you are going to cliam the higher ground, give me one of those truths, and not a lie.</p>
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		<title>By: DL</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/republicans_following_clinton_model/comment-page-1/#comment-61996</link>
		<dc:creator>DL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:48:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=12423#comment-61996</guid>
		<description>I see absolutely nothing amiss with marching in lockstep to impeach Bill CLinton. Oops!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see absolutely nothing amiss with marching in lockstep to impeach Bill CLinton. Oops!</p>
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		<title>By: Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/republicans_following_clinton_model/comment-page-1/#comment-61963</link>
		<dc:creator>Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Oct 2005 18:18:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=12423#comment-61963</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll be curious to see the public reaction if it&#039;s &quot;just&quot; perjury/obstruction, as compared with the Clinton debacle.

The general public support for Clinton, I think, came from a down-home sense that lyin&#039; about cheatin&#039;, in an investigation supposedly dealing with something entirely different, was an excusable failing.  Possibly even one that we might have committed ourselves (assuming the underlying sin).  You could identify with Clinton, in other words.

It will be difficult, tho not impossible, for the same reaction to arise from the Plame case.  Hence the groundwork (&quot;Joe Wilson&#039;s a liar,&quot; etc.) to prepare public opinion in case of indictments.

In the event of indictments, underlying offense charged or not, I expect yet another partisan divide.  There are no facts any more, only interpretations, as Nietzsche observed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'll be curious to see the public reaction if it's "just" perjury/obstruction, as compared with the Clinton debacle.</p>
<p>The general public support for Clinton, I think, came from a down-home sense that lyin' about cheatin', in an investigation supposedly dealing with something entirely different, was an excusable failing.  Possibly even one that we might have committed ourselves (assuming the underlying sin).  You could identify with Clinton, in other words.</p>
<p>It will be difficult, tho not impossible, for the same reaction to arise from the Plame case.  Hence the groundwork ("Joe Wilson's a liar," etc.) to prepare public opinion in case of indictments.</p>
<p>In the event of indictments, underlying offense charged or not, I expect yet another partisan divide.  There are no facts any more, only interpretations, as Nietzsche observed.</p>
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		<title>By: odograph</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/republicans_following_clinton_model/comment-page-1/#comment-61955</link>
		<dc:creator>odograph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Oct 2005 16:33:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=12423#comment-61955</guid>
		<description>disclaimer - I am a former Fat Tire Flyer reader. ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>disclaimer - I am a former Fat Tire Flyer reader. ;-)</p>
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		<title>By: Unpartisan.com Political News and Blog Aggregator</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/republicans_following_clinton_model/comment-page-1/#comment-61953</link>
		<dc:creator>Unpartisan.com Political News and Blog Aggregator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Oct 2005 16:11:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=12423#comment-61953</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Conservatives escalate opposition to Miers&lt;/strong&gt;

Conservative activists intensified their opposition to the Supreme Court nomination of Harriet Miers</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Conservatives escalate opposition to Miers</strong></p>
<p>Conservative activists intensified their opposition to the Supreme Court nomination of Harriet Miers</p>
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		<title>By: odograph</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/republicans_following_clinton_model/comment-page-1/#comment-61951</link>
		<dc:creator>odograph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Oct 2005 16:01:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=12423#comment-61951</guid>
		<description>Remember, a civil case is &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.upi.com/SecurityTerrorism/view.php?StoryID=20051020-113650-5684r&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;threatened &lt;/a&gt; to be in the pipeline on this one too.

Whatever.

I&#039;m only in it for what it will tell me about the origins of this war.  If it was a criminal &quot;cabal&quot; that&#039;s bad, but if it was organized (but legal) blunder that&#039;s bad too - and perhaps harder to deal with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Remember, a civil case is <a href="http://www.upi.com/SecurityTerrorism/view.php?StoryID=20051020-113650-5684r" rel="nofollow">threatened </a> to be in the pipeline on this one too.</p>
<p>Whatever.</p>
<p>I'm only in it for what it will tell me about the origins of this war.  If it was a criminal "cabal" that's bad, but if it was organized (but legal) blunder that's bad too - and perhaps harder to deal with.</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/republicans_following_clinton_model/comment-page-1/#comment-61949</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:50:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=12423#comment-61949</guid>
		<description>RR:  Clinton was under oath in a civil trial legitimated in advance by a Supreme Court ruling (that I opposed, BTW) about sexual harrassment. The question about Lewinski was certainly proper in establishing a pattern of behavior.

Starr&#039;s scope continued to expand because the scandals kept unfolding and they were added to his portfolio by Janet Reno and company because it would have made little sense to have numerous separate investigations.

Clinton was impeached for a crime, an Arkansas judge that HE APPOINTED later found that he had committed a crime, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RR:  Clinton was under oath in a civil trial legitimated in advance by a Supreme Court ruling (that I opposed, BTW) about sexual harrassment. The question about Lewinski was certainly proper in establishing a pattern of behavior.</p>
<p>Starr's scope continued to expand because the scandals kept unfolding and they were added to his portfolio by Janet Reno and company because it would have made little sense to have numerous separate investigations.</p>
<p>Clinton was impeached for a crime, an Arkansas judge that HE APPOINTED later found that he had committed a crime, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Repack Rider</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/republicans_following_clinton_model/comment-page-1/#comment-61946</link>
		<dc:creator>Repack Rider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:40:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=12423#comment-61946</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;It was unseemly for Democrats to attack Kenneth Starr, also a fine man, for doing his job and we should not follow suit.&lt;/i&gt;

The contrasts between Starr and Fitzgerald make that assertion ludicrous.  Starr may be a fine man, but his actions were despicable, and his actions are all that I can use to judge him.

Kenneth Starr spent $65M and could not even identify a crime that had been committed in the Whitewater affair.  The best he could do was to feed the Jones lawyers an irrelevant question about a legal act that elicited a duplicitous reply from the president while he was under oath.  This is the &quot;perjury trap&quot; that the GOP is suddenly incensed about as though there were no difference between an irrelevant untruth about a legal act and lies about who used classified information to ruin the life of a career agent.

The Starr investigation leaked like Niagara Falls, in contrast to Fitzgerald. Unless this &quot;fine man&quot; had no control over his investigation, then he is personally responsible for the leaks which were used against the president.

Has George W. Bush been asked to testify under oath, so the same penalties would apply to him that applied to Clinton?  Well, he has been asked, but he refuses, so right there the difference is stark.  Why do you suppose Bush is so reluctant to take responsibility for telling the truth?

Give me GWB under oath and I&#039;ll get you a perjury rap in two minutes.

The CIA says that a crime has been committed in the exposure of Plame, and they asked for an investigation.  Three years and $65M of investigation couldn&#039;t identify a crime in Whitewater.  

How big does the print have to be for you to see the difference?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>It was unseemly for Democrats to attack Kenneth Starr, also a fine man, for doing his job and we should not follow suit.</i></p>
<p>The contrasts between Starr and Fitzgerald make that assertion ludicrous.  Starr may be a fine man, but his actions were despicable, and his actions are all that I can use to judge him.</p>
<p>Kenneth Starr spent $65M and could not even identify a crime that had been committed in the Whitewater affair.  The best he could do was to feed the Jones lawyers an irrelevant question about a legal act that elicited a duplicitous reply from the president while he was under oath.  This is the "perjury trap" that the GOP is suddenly incensed about as though there were no difference between an irrelevant untruth about a legal act and lies about who used classified information to ruin the life of a career agent.</p>
<p>The Starr investigation leaked like Niagara Falls, in contrast to Fitzgerald. Unless this "fine man" had no control over his investigation, then he is personally responsible for the leaks which were used against the president.</p>
<p>Has George W. Bush been asked to testify under oath, so the same penalties would apply to him that applied to Clinton?  Well, he has been asked, but he refuses, so right there the difference is stark.  Why do you suppose Bush is so reluctant to take responsibility for telling the truth?</p>
<p>Give me GWB under oath and I'll get you a perjury rap in two minutes.</p>
<p>The CIA says that a crime has been committed in the exposure of Plame, and they asked for an investigation.  Three years and $65M of investigation couldn't identify a crime in Whitewater.  </p>
<p>How big does the print have to be for you to see the difference?</p>
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		<title>By: DaveD</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/republicans_following_clinton_model/comment-page-1/#comment-61934</link>
		<dc:creator>DaveD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Oct 2005 14:51:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>James, I enthusiastically second your opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James, I enthusiastically second your opinion.</p>
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