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	<title>Comments on: Ricci Opens Up Businesses To More Lawsuits?</title>
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		<title>By: An Interested Party</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/ricci_opens_up_businesses_to_more_lawsuits/comment-page-1/#comment-1080092</link>
		<dc:creator>An Interested Party</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 18:25:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=38650#comment-1080092</guid>
		<description>Just as liberals have Clarence Thomas, it&#039;s nice to see that conservatives will soon have Sotomayor on the SCOTUS for years and years to come to fume over...enjoy, guys and gals...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just as liberals have Clarence Thomas, it's nice to see that conservatives will soon have Sotomayor on the SCOTUS for years and years to come to fume over...enjoy, guys and gals...</p>
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		<title>By: sam</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/ricci_opens_up_businesses_to_more_lawsuits/comment-page-1/#comment-1080027</link>
		<dc:creator>sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 17:11:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=38650#comment-1080027</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;One with respect to the Not So Wise Latina, to accept her Ricci decision&lt;/blockquote&gt;

What do you mean &quot;her&quot; decision? And what&#039;s the bullshit about the &quot;Sotomayor Standard&quot;? She and her two colleagues on the panel followed precedent in affirming a decision of the federal circuit judge, who himself was following precedent,  and the &lt;em&gt;entire &lt;/em&gt; 2d Circuit declined to overturn the panel&#039;s decision.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>One with respect to the Not So Wise Latina, to accept her Ricci decision</p></blockquote>
<p>What do you mean "her" decision? And what's the bullshit about the "Sotomayor Standard"? She and her two colleagues on the panel followed precedent in affirming a decision of the federal circuit judge, who himself was following precedent,  and the <em>entire </em> 2d Circuit declined to overturn the panel's decision.</p>
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		<title>By: DavidL</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/ricci_opens_up_businesses_to_more_lawsuits/comment-page-1/#comment-1080008</link>
		<dc:creator>DavidL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 16:52:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=38650#comment-1080008</guid>
		<description>Two problems.

One with respect to the Not So Wise Latina, to accept her Ricci decision, means that any business, government, entity can use the mere threat of lawsuit to engage in racial discrimination.  That to say, that a fair result can be discarded if but one member of a statutorily protected class objects.  The Sotomayor Standard isn&#039;t that the objection is substained, but rather merely advanced.

Two, the Supreme Court and Congress have created this legal fiction that cultural capital is proportional distributed among all demographic groups.  Alas it is not.  Yet we required to achieve outcomes based on a legal fiction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two problems.</p>
<p>One with respect to the Not So Wise Latina, to accept her Ricci decision, means that any business, government, entity can use the mere threat of lawsuit to engage in racial discrimination.  That to say, that a fair result can be discarded if but one member of a statutorily protected class objects.  The Sotomayor Standard isn't that the objection is substained, but rather merely advanced.</p>
<p>Two, the Supreme Court and Congress have created this legal fiction that cultural capital is proportional distributed among all demographic groups.  Alas it is not.  Yet we required to achieve outcomes based on a legal fiction.</p>
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		<title>By: sam</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/ricci_opens_up_businesses_to_more_lawsuits/comment-page-1/#comment-1079627</link>
		<dc:creator>sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 10:51:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=38650#comment-1079627</guid>
		<description>@Drew

&lt;blockquote&gt;I&#039;d suggest commentators quit bitching about the Court and start bitching to their Representatives.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That&#039;s right--though I&#039;d substitute &#039;courts&#039; for &#039;Court&#039; (Judge Sotomayor and her colleagues on the the 2d panel followed the district court judge in applying precedent--horror of horrors).

One thing to come out of this is that, according to this &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/30/us/30impact.html?hp&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;story&lt;/a&gt;, some municipalities have moved away from written tests toward performance-based evaluations. As someone says in the article, a written test primarily evaluates your memory skills.

&lt;blockquote&gt;In New Haven, city officials, having concluded that their written test was flawed, said there was another, trusted method to select firefighting lieutenants and captains that posed less of a disadvantage to blacks and Hispanics. That method relies largely on assessment centers where applicants are evaluated in simulated real-life situations to see how they would handle them.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

This seems to me quite reasonable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Drew</p>
<blockquote><p>I'd suggest commentators quit bitching about the Court and start bitching to their Representatives.</p></blockquote>
<p>That's right--though I'd substitute 'courts' for 'Court' (Judge Sotomayor and her colleagues on the the 2d panel followed the district court judge in applying precedent--horror of horrors).</p>
<p>One thing to come out of this is that, according to this <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/30/us/30impact.html?hp" rel="nofollow">story</a>, some municipalities have moved away from written tests toward performance-based evaluations. As someone says in the article, a written test primarily evaluates your memory skills.</p>
<blockquote><p>In New Haven, city officials, having concluded that their written test was flawed, said there was another, trusted method to select firefighting lieutenants and captains that posed less of a disadvantage to blacks and Hispanics. That method relies largely on assessment centers where applicants are evaluated in simulated real-life situations to see how they would handle them.</p></blockquote>
<p>This seems to me quite reasonable.</p>
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		<title>By: JKB</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/ricci_opens_up_businesses_to_more_lawsuits/comment-page-1/#comment-1079315</link>
		<dc:creator>JKB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 03:42:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=38650#comment-1079315</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;To avoid this dilemma, business groups have long sought to persuade the courts to interpret Title VII to shield them from liability for race-conscious hiring policies that are intended to prevent disparate impact lawsuits. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Or this could be simple stated as : business groups have long sought to persuade the courts to shield them from liability for racial discrimination against whites.  

Turns out the laws are for all people.  Eventually, a balance will be achieved but today it was ruled that fearing a lawsuit is no reason to actively discriminate against another group.  In all change, there is a period of transition where damage occurs.   The damage from this change will be increased due to the same reason the 2nd Circuit rejected the suit out of hand, much of the judiciary believes in discrimination as long as the right group(s) benefits and will resist efforts to create a world where &quot;all men are judged by the content of their character not the color of their skin.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>To avoid this dilemma, business groups have long sought to persuade the courts to interpret Title VII to shield them from liability for race-conscious hiring policies that are intended to prevent disparate impact lawsuits. </p></blockquote>
<p>Or this could be simple stated as : business groups have long sought to persuade the courts to shield them from liability for racial discrimination against whites.  </p>
<p>Turns out the laws are for all people.  Eventually, a balance will be achieved but today it was ruled that fearing a lawsuit is no reason to actively discriminate against another group.  In all change, there is a period of transition where damage occurs.   The damage from this change will be increased due to the same reason the 2nd Circuit rejected the suit out of hand, much of the judiciary believes in discrimination as long as the right group(s) benefits and will resist efforts to create a world where "all men are judged by the content of their character not the color of their skin."</p>
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		<title>By: Drew</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/ricci_opens_up_businesses_to_more_lawsuits/comment-page-1/#comment-1079170</link>
		<dc:creator>Drew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 01:58:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=38650#comment-1079170</guid>
		<description>Seems to me the Court effectively threw this back at the Congress (the people) and said &quot;you idiots made (voted for) this bad law, you fix it.  We don&#039;t make law.&quot;

I&#039;d suggest commentators quit bitching about the Court and start bitching to their Representatives.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seems to me the Court effectively threw this back at the Congress (the people) and said "you idiots made (voted for) this bad law, you fix it.  We don't make law."</p>
<p>I'd suggest commentators quit bitching about the Court and start bitching to their Representatives.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Florack</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/ricci_opens_up_businesses_to_more_lawsuits/comment-page-1/#comment-1079138</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Florack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 01:37:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=38650#comment-1079138</guid>
		<description>Seems to me the same objections were raised when Affirmative action was the big deal. As I recall those arguments were discounted because discrimination deserved punishment.

That would be my answer now, as well.
See also, Bed, lying in it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seems to me the same objections were raised when Affirmative action was the big deal. As I recall those arguments were discounted because discrimination deserved punishment.</p>
<p>That would be my answer now, as well.<br />
See also, Bed, lying in it.</p>
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		<title>By: An Interested Party</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/ricci_opens_up_businesses_to_more_lawsuits/comment-page-1/#comment-1079019</link>
		<dc:creator>An Interested Party</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 00:20:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=38650#comment-1079019</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The conservative justices made an activist decision...&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You mean conservatives do it too!?!  Who knew...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The conservative justices made an activist decision...</p></blockquote>
<p>You mean conservatives do it too!?!  Who knew...</p>
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		<title>By: steve</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/ricci_opens_up_businesses_to_more_lawsuits/comment-page-1/#comment-1079012</link>
		<dc:creator>steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 00:15:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=38650#comment-1079012</guid>
		<description>LOL. I am a physician at a trauma center, so you do not want to see me. I am assuming you misread (deliberately?), so I will try again.

  If I were to hire 5 new docs by giving a test, what would happen if all 5 top scorers were white? Title VII says that inequality in outcome is, by itself, adequate cause to bring a suit and assume discrimination. This current ruling by the court means that if I decide to try to avoid a suit by not hiring anyone, I can be sued by the 5 white test winners. As head of a small corporation, I am hosed either way. 

  The conservative justices made an activist decision in an attempt to correct for a bad law, IMO. But, without the follow up of rewriting the law, so that you cannot sue without more proof than just unequal results, this finding stands as a bonanza for trial lawyers. The group that seems to usually win no matter what.

Steve</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LOL. I am a physician at a trauma center, so you do not want to see me. I am assuming you misread (deliberately?), so I will try again.</p>
<p>  If I were to hire 5 new docs by giving a test, what would happen if all 5 top scorers were white? Title VII says that inequality in outcome is, by itself, adequate cause to bring a suit and assume discrimination. This current ruling by the court means that if I decide to try to avoid a suit by not hiring anyone, I can be sued by the 5 white test winners. As head of a small corporation, I am hosed either way. </p>
<p>  The conservative justices made an activist decision in an attempt to correct for a bad law, IMO. But, without the follow up of rewriting the law, so that you cannot sue without more proof than just unequal results, this finding stands as a bonanza for trial lawyers. The group that seems to usually win no matter what.</p>
<p>Steve</p>
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		<title>By: Zelsdorf Ragshaft III</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/ricci_opens_up_businesses_to_more_lawsuits/comment-page-1/#comment-1078748</link>
		<dc:creator>Zelsdorf Ragshaft III</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 21:10:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=38650#comment-1078748</guid>
		<description>So Steve, are you saying at your corporation you do not hire the most qualified?  Please let me know what goods you manufacture or what services you provide so I can avoid them like the plague.  I do not want to spend my money, entrust my life, or have dealing with those who are not qualified to provide either the products or services I use.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So Steve, are you saying at your corporation you do not hire the most qualified?  Please let me know what goods you manufacture or what services you provide so I can avoid them like the plague.  I do not want to spend my money, entrust my life, or have dealing with those who are not qualified to provide either the products or services I use.</p>
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		<title>By: steve</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/ricci_opens_up_businesses_to_more_lawsuits/comment-page-1/#comment-1078732</link>
		<dc:creator>steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 20:40:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=38650#comment-1078732</guid>
		<description>I believe the problem here is a poorly written law. Since I run a small corporation, I would like for Sotomayor&#039;s interpretation of Title VII to be the one followed, but the SCOTUS chose the other option. Lawsuits are costly and time consuming. Federal suits tend to result in very large damages. What we really need if for Title VII to be rewritten. I think that when a law is this poorly written, and Congress will not address it, SCOTUS is the best group to make those decisions. This can certainly be seen as an activist decision. Reaching the opposite decision would have looked like an activist decision. Crappy laws beget crappy decisions.

Steve</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe the problem here is a poorly written law. Since I run a small corporation, I would like for Sotomayor's interpretation of Title VII to be the one followed, but the SCOTUS chose the other option. Lawsuits are costly and time consuming. Federal suits tend to result in very large damages. What we really need if for Title VII to be rewritten. I think that when a law is this poorly written, and Congress will not address it, SCOTUS is the best group to make those decisions. This can certainly be seen as an activist decision. Reaching the opposite decision would have looked like an activist decision. Crappy laws beget crappy decisions.</p>
<p>Steve</p>
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		<title>By: ac halle</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/ricci_opens_up_businesses_to_more_lawsuits/comment-page-1/#comment-1078730</link>
		<dc:creator>ac halle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 20:33:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=38650#comment-1078730</guid>
		<description>When do &#039;whites&#039; get a say in all of this, friend?
Or is this continuation in abstentia.
Her ruling, et.al. are as racist as can be.
Any body going to call her sorry ass on this?
Any body.
Bueller.
Bueller.
Anyone.
No nevermind.
Forward.
This crap is over.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When do 'whites' get a say in all of this, friend?<br />
Or is this continuation in abstentia.<br />
Her ruling, et.al. are as racist as can be.<br />
Any body going to call her sorry ass on this?<br />
Any body.<br />
Bueller.<br />
Bueller.<br />
Anyone.<br />
No nevermind.<br />
Forward.<br />
This crap is over.</p>
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