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	<title>Comments on: Roberts: Abortion Issue &#8220;Settled&#8221;</title>
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		<title>By: Bithead</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/roberts_precedent_settles_abortion_ruling/comment-page-1/#comment-57839</link>
		<dc:creator>Bithead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Sep 2005 15:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>It&#039;s really this simple to defeat those hoping Roe is settled and therefore cannot be challanged.

If court rulings settled the matter, &lt;em&gt;Brown&lt;/em&gt; would never have existed, because of &lt;em&gt;Plessy&lt;/em&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It's really this simple to defeat those hoping Roe is settled and therefore cannot be challanged.</p>
<p>If court rulings settled the matter, <em>Brown</em> would never have existed, because of <em>Plessy</em>.</p>
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		<title>By: Rodney Dill</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/roberts_precedent_settles_abortion_ruling/comment-page-1/#comment-57563</link>
		<dc:creator>Rodney Dill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Sep 2005 02:03:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Roberts did what Ginsberg did and said &quot;nothing&quot; substantive about possible upcoming cases. All else is speculation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Roberts did what Ginsberg did and said "nothing" substantive about possible upcoming cases. All else is speculation.</p>
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		<title>By: ken</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/roberts_precedent_settles_abortion_ruling/comment-page-1/#comment-57554</link>
		<dc:creator>ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 23:26:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=11986#comment-57554</guid>
		<description>It seems that there are a lot of republican conservatives here who do not want to have a right to privacy. Fine. Give yours up, I don&#039;t care. Just leave mine alone. 

Without a federally protected right to privacy you will have no recourse if your city, county or state makes public your school, medical, bank, credit or work records for all to see.

Without a right to privacy you will have no recourse if your city, county or state outlaws liposuction, breast implants, braces, dentures, bikini waxing or mohawk haircuts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems that there are a lot of republican conservatives here who do not want to have a right to privacy. Fine. Give yours up, I don't care. Just leave mine alone. </p>
<p>Without a federally protected right to privacy you will have no recourse if your city, county or state makes public your school, medical, bank, credit or work records for all to see.</p>
<p>Without a right to privacy you will have no recourse if your city, county or state outlaws liposuction, breast implants, braces, dentures, bikini waxing or mohawk haircuts.</p>
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		<title>By: Geek, Esq.</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/roberts_precedent_settles_abortion_ruling/comment-page-1/#comment-57528</link>
		<dc:creator>Geek, Esq.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 20:40:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=11986#comment-57528</guid>
		<description>He endorsed Griswold, which certainly is a start.  

The big problem for social conservatives isn&#039;t Roe, but rather Casey, which not only upholds Roe, but also sets forth a standard of stare decisis.  Now, in order to overrule Roe, they also have to dump Casey&#039;s theory on stare decisis.  

A lot of folks have missed how the ground has shifted because of Rehnquist&#039;s death.  He&#039;s replacing Rehnquist, as reliable a vote social conservatives have ever had on the court.  If Roberts turns out to be in favor of upholding Roe (I still think he&#039;ll vote to overrule), then the movement to get Roe overturned is dead, dead, dead.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He endorsed Griswold, which certainly is a start.  </p>
<p>The big problem for social conservatives isn't Roe, but rather Casey, which not only upholds Roe, but also sets forth a standard of stare decisis.  Now, in order to overrule Roe, they also have to dump Casey's theory on stare decisis.  </p>
<p>A lot of folks have missed how the ground has shifted because of Rehnquist's death.  He's replacing Rehnquist, as reliable a vote social conservatives have ever had on the court.  If Roberts turns out to be in favor of upholding Roe (I still think he'll vote to overrule), then the movement to get Roe overturned is dead, dead, dead.</p>
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		<title>By: Herb</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/roberts_precedent_settles_abortion_ruling/comment-page-1/#comment-57527</link>
		<dc:creator>Herb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 20:35:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=11986#comment-57527</guid>
		<description>I watched and listened to what Roberts said very carefully. I did not hear him commit one way or another what he would do on Roe V Wade. What i did see and hear was Roberts beat back the morally and ethically ignorant dumb o crats try to pin him down. Roberts made them look like fools in their quest to Nail him on various issues. 

I got a big chuckle out of the entire thing because it reminded me of the Iran gate hearings when Ollie North made them all look like the fools they are and Ollie never really answered a question that came up.

The dumb o crats in the Senate are following the obstructionist agenda they have followed since Bush 11 beat their pants off. (both times)

It is indeed sad when one thinks that these guys are making laws that effect you and I and have no sense of common decency, ethics, or morals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I watched and listened to what Roberts said very carefully. I did not hear him commit one way or another what he would do on Roe V Wade. What i did see and hear was Roberts beat back the morally and ethically ignorant dumb o crats try to pin him down. Roberts made them look like fools in their quest to Nail him on various issues. </p>
<p>I got a big chuckle out of the entire thing because it reminded me of the Iran gate hearings when Ollie North made them all look like the fools they are and Ollie never really answered a question that came up.</p>
<p>The dumb o crats in the Senate are following the obstructionist agenda they have followed since Bush 11 beat their pants off. (both times)</p>
<p>It is indeed sad when one thinks that these guys are making laws that effect you and I and have no sense of common decency, ethics, or morals.</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/roberts_precedent_settles_abortion_ruling/comment-page-1/#comment-57524</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 20:21:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=11986#comment-57524</guid>
		<description>Well, they recognized it hiding in emanations of shadows of rights that had been enumerated 174 years earlier and not theretofore &quot;recognized.&quot;  Abortion in particular was certainly outlawed, and routinely so, for decades at least.  Rather clearly, the states had the right to legislate on that issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, they recognized it hiding in emanations of shadows of rights that had been enumerated 174 years earlier and not theretofore "recognized."  Abortion in particular was certainly outlawed, and routinely so, for decades at least.  Rather clearly, the states had the right to legislate on that issue.</p>
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		<title>By: Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/roberts_precedent_settles_abortion_ruling/comment-page-1/#comment-57521</link>
		<dc:creator>Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 20:17:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=11986#comment-57521</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;The right to abortion was created in 1973 as an extension of the right to privacy created in 1965. Neither have any but a tangential basis in the Constitution.&lt;/i&gt;

You say &quot;created,&quot; I say &quot;recognized&quot; ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The right to abortion was created in 1973 as an extension of the right to privacy created in 1965. Neither have any but a tangential basis in the Constitution.</i></p>
<p>You say "created," I say "recognized" ...</p>
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		<title>By: ProfessorBainbridge.com</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/roberts_precedent_settles_abortion_ruling/comment-page-1/#comment-57517</link>
		<dc:creator>ProfessorBainbridge.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 19:26:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=11986#comment-57517</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Roberts Takes the Easy Way Out&lt;/strong&gt;

I haven&#039;t seen the transcript yet, so the following is merely provisional, but I&#039;m disappointed by how SCOTUS CJ nominee John Roberts reportedly handled one issue:Judge Roberts testified, as he was pressed for his views on legalized abortion, that there</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Roberts Takes the Easy Way Out</strong></p>
<p>I haven't seen the transcript yet, so the following is merely provisional, but I'm disappointed by how SCOTUS CJ nominee John Roberts reportedly handled one issue:Judge Roberts testified, as he was pressed for his views on legalized abortion, that there</p>
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		<title>By: bruhaha</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/roberts_precedent_settles_abortion_ruling/comment-page-1/#comment-57506</link>
		<dc:creator>bruhaha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 17:46:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=11986#comment-57506</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;whose wife is a self-declared feminist&lt;/i&gt;

Boy are you ill-informed!  She is a &quot;self-declared feminist&quot; in that she has been a leader in &quot;Feminists for &lt;b&gt;Life&lt;/b&gt;&quot;, a group characterized by its strong stand &lt;i&gt;against&lt;/i&gt; Roe v. Wade!! 

As for the &quot;settled law&quot; remarks. Can&#039;t you see that Roberts is simply making a point he &lt;i&gt;has&lt;/i&gt; to make in the current political environment?

But please note what he does and &lt;i&gt;doesn&#039;t&lt;/i&gt; affirm.    He assures them that he believes giving weight and respect to precedent.  But whatever the libs try to suggest, &lt;i&gt;every&lt;/i&gt; justice, including Thomas [the one most likely, in principle, to set precedent aside] believes in &lt;i&gt;some&lt;/i&gt; form of stare decisis, and for that matter all of them are willing to overturn what they regard as bad precedent (as liberals have done a number of times recently!).  So this really a non-issue.

What to take note of, then, is what he says that is &lt;i&gt;different&lt;/i&gt; and distinctive.

First, note that Roberts clearly refused to give in to Specter&#039;s pressure to declare Roe some sort of &quot;super precedent&quot;.    

But even more striking is that he doesn&#039;t make a general statement in favor of stare decisis and leave it there (as I seem to recall even Thomas did!)   He choose to addresses (several times!) the &lt;i&gt;limits&lt;/i&gt; of stare decisis, explaining why the court has acted or might legitimate act, to &lt;i&gt;overturn&lt;/i&gt; a precedent!

If he&#039;s really just fine with Roe v Wade and could not imagine overturning it, why would he put that out there?   As it is, he has acknowledged what is, made it clear that he respects precedent (and so can&#039;t be pegged as the flamethrower on a mission to fix this nutty court!), but articulated the basis on which he could decide to undo it!

Another thing to keep in perspective.  It&#039;s not so certain that the court will even get a good opportunity any time soon to overturn Roe outright. (That&#039;s simply based on the sort of cases working their way through the system.)  

It most certainly will, however, hear a number of cases involving various restrictions, e.g., partial birth, parental notification.  These present the opportunity to &quot;chip away&quot; at the substance of Roe v Wade.   There is plenty of reason to believe that Roberts, together with others of his sort Bush appoints would be inclined and able to do so.   

It&#039;s just possible that such an incremental route will more effectively free us from Roe than would the immediate outright overturn (i.e., returning it all, immediately, to the states).  Then, at the end of the process, the empty shell could be discarded.

In fact, Roberts&#039; remarks today may have laid part of the groundwork for such a process.   Please note the following:

&lt;i&gt;Whether or not particular precedents have proven to be unworkable is another consideration on the other side -- whether the doctrinal bases of a decision had been eroded by subsequent developments.&lt;/i&gt;

&lt;i&gt;For example, if you have a case in which there are three precedents that lead and support that result and in the intervening period two of them have been overruled, that may be a basis for reconsidering the prior precedent.&lt;/i&gt;

(And when Specter then tries to get him to assert that the &quot;doctrinal bases&quot; for Roe have &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; been undermined, Roberts refuses to answer!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>whose wife is a self-declared feminist</i></p>
<p>Boy are you ill-informed!  She is a "self-declared feminist" in that she has been a leader in "Feminists for <b>Life</b>", a group characterized by its strong stand <i>against</i> Roe v. Wade!! </p>
<p>As for the "settled law" remarks. Can't you see that Roberts is simply making a point he <i>has</i> to make in the current political environment?</p>
<p>But please note what he does and <i>doesn't</i> affirm.    He assures them that he believes giving weight and respect to precedent.  But whatever the libs try to suggest, <i>every</i> justice, including Thomas [the one most likely, in principle, to set precedent aside] believes in <i>some</i> form of stare decisis, and for that matter all of them are willing to overturn what they regard as bad precedent (as liberals have done a number of times recently!).  So this really a non-issue.</p>
<p>What to take note of, then, is what he says that is <i>different</i> and distinctive.</p>
<p>First, note that Roberts clearly refused to give in to Specter's pressure to declare Roe some sort of "super precedent".    </p>
<p>But even more striking is that he doesn't make a general statement in favor of stare decisis and leave it there (as I seem to recall even Thomas did!)   He choose to addresses (several times!) the <i>limits</i> of stare decisis, explaining why the court has acted or might legitimate act, to <i>overturn</i> a precedent!</p>
<p>If he's really just fine with Roe v Wade and could not imagine overturning it, why would he put that out there?   As it is, he has acknowledged what is, made it clear that he respects precedent (and so can't be pegged as the flamethrower on a mission to fix this nutty court!), but articulated the basis on which he could decide to undo it!</p>
<p>Another thing to keep in perspective.  It's not so certain that the court will even get a good opportunity any time soon to overturn Roe outright. (That's simply based on the sort of cases working their way through the system.)  </p>
<p>It most certainly will, however, hear a number of cases involving various restrictions, e.g., partial birth, parental notification.  These present the opportunity to "chip away" at the substance of Roe v Wade.   There is plenty of reason to believe that Roberts, together with others of his sort Bush appoints would be inclined and able to do so.   </p>
<p>It's just possible that such an incremental route will more effectively free us from Roe than would the immediate outright overturn (i.e., returning it all, immediately, to the states).  Then, at the end of the process, the empty shell could be discarded.</p>
<p>In fact, Roberts' remarks today may have laid part of the groundwork for such a process.   Please note the following:</p>
<p><i>Whether or not particular precedents have proven to be unworkable is another consideration on the other side -- whether the doctrinal bases of a decision had been eroded by subsequent developments.</i></p>
<p><i>For example, if you have a case in which there are three precedents that lead and support that result and in the intervening period two of them have been overruled, that may be a basis for reconsidering the prior precedent.</i></p>
<p>(And when Specter then tries to get him to assert that the "doctrinal bases" for Roe have <i>not</i> been undermined, Roberts refuses to answer!)</p>
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		<title>By: Vic Havens</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/roberts_precedent_settles_abortion_ruling/comment-page-1/#comment-57505</link>
		<dc:creator>Vic Havens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 17:20:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=11986#comment-57505</guid>
		<description>Unfortunately for the Associated Press, &quot;that term doesn&#039;t mean what you think it means.&quot; &lt;i&gt;Stare decisis&lt;/i&gt; does not have to do with the &quot;long-standing-ness&quot; of rulings, but simply the ongoing validity of a previous ruling. 
Sen. Spector is trying to imply that some previous rulings are more valid than others, but they are not, nor has Mr. Roberts agreed that they are.
By &lt;i&gt;stare decisis&lt;/i&gt; a ruling is valid until and unless it is altered by legislation or overturned by a subsequent ruling. So Brown v. Board of Education overturned Plessy v. Ferguson. Plessy v. Ferguson was the valid ruling before being overturned; Brown v. Board is now the valid ruling.
In a similar way, Roe v. Wade and Planned Parenthood v. Casey are now valid rulings. 
The concern is that Mr. Roberts might rule to overturn one or both of these.
What is going on is an effort to get him to commit in advance that he would never do so. He will avoid that trap.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unfortunately for the Associated Press, "that term doesn't mean what you think it means." <i>Stare decisis</i> does not have to do with the "long-standing-ness" of rulings, but simply the ongoing validity of a previous ruling.<br />
Sen. Spector is trying to imply that some previous rulings are more valid than others, but they are not, nor has Mr. Roberts agreed that they are.<br />
By <i>stare decisis</i> a ruling is valid until and unless it is altered by legislation or overturned by a subsequent ruling. So Brown v. Board of Education overturned Plessy v. Ferguson. Plessy v. Ferguson was the valid ruling before being overturned; Brown v. Board is now the valid ruling.<br />
In a similar way, Roe v. Wade and Planned Parenthood v. Casey are now valid rulings.<br />
The concern is that Mr. Roberts might rule to overturn one or both of these.<br />
What is going on is an effort to get him to commit in advance that he would never do so. He will avoid that trap.</p>
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		<title>By: Rabid Rick</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/roberts_precedent_settles_abortion_ruling/comment-page-1/#comment-57504</link>
		<dc:creator>Rabid Rick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 16:41:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=11986#comment-57504</guid>
		<description>Bush has sold out us conservatives again.  First he abandons realism in foreign policy, increases the police power of the state, and now appoints a liberal (whose wife is a self-declared feminist) to the court.

Just like his papa, little georgie is liberal to the bone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bush has sold out us conservatives again.  First he abandons realism in foreign policy, increases the police power of the state, and now appoints a liberal (whose wife is a self-declared feminist) to the court.</p>
<p>Just like his papa, little georgie is liberal to the bone.</p>
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		<title>By: Rodney Dill</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/roberts_precedent_settles_abortion_ruling/comment-page-1/#comment-57503</link>
		<dc:creator>Rodney Dill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 16:40:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=11986#comment-57503</guid>
		<description>Just so its not a 
&lt;i&gt;Secret Double-Jeopardy&lt;/i&gt; precedent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just so its not a<br />
<i>Secret Double-Jeopardy</i> precedent.</p>
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		<title>By: Unpartisan.com Political News and Blog Aggregator</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/roberts_precedent_settles_abortion_ruling/comment-page-1/#comment-57500</link>
		<dc:creator>Unpartisan.com Political News and Blog Aggregator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 16:17:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=11986#comment-57500</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Specter Won&#039;t Quiz Roberts on Abortion&lt;/strong&gt;

The chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee said Sunday he will not ask Supreme Court nominee Joh</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Specter Won't Quiz Roberts on Abortion</strong></p>
<p>The chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee said Sunday he will not ask Supreme Court nominee Joh</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/roberts_precedent_settles_abortion_ruling/comment-page-1/#comment-57498</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 16:05:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=11986#comment-57498</guid>
		<description>DL,

It is on the page right before &quot;ultra-super-duper&quot; precedent.  :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DL,</p>
<p>It is on the page right before "ultra-super-duper" precedent.  :-)</p>
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		<title>By: DL</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/roberts_precedent_settles_abortion_ruling/comment-page-1/#comment-57497</link>
		<dc:creator>DL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 15:37:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=11986#comment-57497</guid>
		<description>So how does that hurt his chances? Are you assuming that conservative senators will dump him? 

I&#039;m afraid that will lift his chances!

I also need some help finding &quot;super precedent&quot; in my dog eared copy of the Constitution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So how does that hurt his chances? Are you assuming that conservative senators will dump him? </p>
<p>I'm afraid that will lift his chances!</p>
<p>I also need some help finding "super precedent" in my dog eared copy of the Constitution.</p>
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