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	<title>Comments on: Rock is Dead They Say . . .</title>
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	<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/rock_is_dead_they_say/</link>
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	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 17:08:21 -0600</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Death of the &#8216;B&#8217; Side</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/rock_is_dead_they_say/comment-page-3/#comment-1040978</link>
		<dc:creator>Death of the &#8216;B&#8217; Side</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 May 2009 14:11:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=35543#comment-1040978</guid>
		<description>[...] the discussion on my post about whether rock and roll died with John Bonham, commenter Michael makes an interesting point: I was discussing it with my wife over the weekend [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the discussion on my post about whether rock and roll died with John Bonham, commenter Michael makes an interesting point: I was discussing it with my wife over the weekend [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/rock_is_dead_they_say/comment-page-3/#comment-1040966</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 May 2009 13:30:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=35543#comment-1040966</guid>
		<description>I hate to revive an old thread, especially one as long as this, but I was discussing it with my wife over the weekend and she made an interesting observation: there is no longer a &quot;B&quot; side.

Her specific point was that musicians often used the &quot;B&quot; side for introducing new, experimental ideas to their audience.  Without it, the only thing that gets sold is the formulaic songs that they know people will buy.  

I seem to recall, and certainly Bithead can clarify this, that radio stations only play what&#039;s been released on a single, which means that adding experimental tracks to a full album doesn&#039;t accomplish the same thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hate to revive an old thread, especially one as long as this, but I was discussing it with my wife over the weekend and she made an interesting observation: there is no longer a "B" side.</p>
<p>Her specific point was that musicians often used the "B" side for introducing new, experimental ideas to their audience.  Without it, the only thing that gets sold is the formulaic songs that they know people will buy.  </p>
<p>I seem to recall, and certainly Bithead can clarify this, that radio stations only play what's been released on a single, which means that adding experimental tracks to a full album doesn't accomplish the same thing.</p>
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		<title>By: Bloggers Want To Rock and Roll All Night &#171; Around The Sphere</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/rock_is_dead_they_say/comment-page-3/#comment-1040309</link>
		<dc:creator>Bloggers Want To Rock and Roll All Night &#171; Around The Sphere</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 May 2009 16:52:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=35543#comment-1040309</guid>
		<description>[...] James Joyner links to McCain and wonders: [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] James Joyner links to McCain and wonders: [...]</p>
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		<title>By: charles austin</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/rock_is_dead_they_say/comment-page-3/#comment-1038908</link>
		<dc:creator>charles austin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 22:37:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=35543#comment-1038908</guid>
		<description>Drew, it was all vinyl back then.  Or eight track.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Drew, it was all vinyl back then.  Or eight track.</p>
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		<title>By: charles austin</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/rock_is_dead_they_say/comment-page-3/#comment-1038905</link>
		<dc:creator>charles austin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 22:36:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=35543#comment-1038905</guid>
		<description>Drew, hmm... you&#039;ve got me stumped on how I know how to get a hold of you. My father-in-law lives in Plainfield and I know I&#039;ll be up there in early July.  Hope to shoot up 59 and see you then.  I grew up not far from Fox Valley Mall way back when. Say, do you golf?

I was more partial to &quot;Been a long time since I rock and rolled...&quot;.  I burned through three copies of Dark Side of the Moon before I got to college.  Ah, the good old days.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Drew, hmm... you've got me stumped on how I know how to get a hold of you. My father-in-law lives in Plainfield and I know I'll be up there in early July.  Hope to shoot up 59 and see you then.  I grew up not far from Fox Valley Mall way back when. Say, do you golf?</p>
<p>I was more partial to "Been a long time since I rock and rolled...".  I burned through three copies of Dark Side of the Moon before I got to college.  Ah, the good old days.</p>
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		<title>By: anjin-san</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/rock_is_dead_they_say/comment-page-3/#comment-1038825</link>
		<dc:creator>anjin-san</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 21:37:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=35543#comment-1038825</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;Hey, hey momma said the way you move
Gonna make you sweat gonna make you groove....&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Going back a bit earlier, In the 9th grade, I would play both sides of &quot;Led Zepplin II&quot; every night upon getting in bed. Fell asleep with &quot;Thank You&quot; floating thru my head.

That was a pretty good year...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>"Hey, hey momma said the way you move<br />
Gonna make you sweat gonna make you groove...."</p></blockquote>
<p>Going back a bit earlier, In the 9th grade, I would play both sides of "Led Zepplin II" every night upon getting in bed. Fell asleep with "Thank You" floating thru my head.</p>
<p>That was a pretty good year...</p>
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		<title>By: Drew</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/rock_is_dead_they_say/comment-page-3/#comment-1038765</link>
		<dc:creator>Drew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 20:31:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=35543#comment-1038765</guid>
		<description>This will be my last for this thread.

James has probably concluded he has created a monster.

But I just cranked up the system.  References have been made in the thread &quot;where were you?&quot;  

Well, so where were you when you first heard at full throated, maximum energy and emotion (and yes, in vinyl)?:

&quot;Hey, hey momma said the way you move
Gonna make you sweat gonna make you groove....&quot;

(freight train...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This will be my last for this thread.</p>
<p>James has probably concluded he has created a monster.</p>
<p>But I just cranked up the system.  References have been made in the thread "where were you?"  </p>
<p>Well, so where were you when you first heard at full throated, maximum energy and emotion (and yes, in vinyl)?:</p>
<p>"Hey, hey momma said the way you move<br />
Gonna make you sweat gonna make you groove...."</p>
<p>(freight train...)</p>
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		<title>By: Drew</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/rock_is_dead_they_say/comment-page-3/#comment-1038761</link>
		<dc:creator>Drew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 20:11:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=35543#comment-1038761</guid>
		<description>Charles -

Well, you know how to contact me.  I&#039;m in Naperville, BTW.  You could listen to the system first hand.......and we could raid the wine cellar.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Charles -</p>
<p>Well, you know how to contact me.  I'm in Naperville, BTW.  You could listen to the system first hand.......and we could raid the wine cellar.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe R.</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/rock_is_dead_they_say/comment-page-3/#comment-1038751</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe R.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 19:25:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=35543#comment-1038751</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Not sure how much black music influence AC\DC music.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
You might want to research who Angus Young&#039;s guitar influences are.  The influence is all over his solos.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Not sure how much black music influence AC\DC music.</p></blockquote>
<p>You might want to research who Angus Young's guitar influences are.  The influence is all over his solos.</p>
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		<title>By: charles austin</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/rock_is_dead_they_say/comment-page-3/#comment-1038744</link>
		<dc:creator>charles austin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 18:38:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=35543#comment-1038744</guid>
		<description>Drew, it is St. Louis.  There are a couple dealers here.  I&#039;ll have to see what they have.

I have family near Chicago and find myself there a few times a year.  Love to buy you a drink sometime.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Drew, it is St. Louis.  There are a couple dealers here.  I'll have to see what they have.</p>
<p>I have family near Chicago and find myself there a few times a year.  Love to buy you a drink sometime.</p>
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		<title>By: Drew</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/rock_is_dead_they_say/comment-page-3/#comment-1038736</link>
		<dc:creator>Drew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 18:09:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=35543#comment-1038736</guid>
		<description>Charles -

A couple last points.  Yes, both type of planar speakers, Maggies and Stats, are beautiful for transparency and sound staging because of the basic physics.....you are only moving thin films.

However, if you want what the reviewers call &quot;dynamics&quot; which really means moving alot of air to create that gut sense of weight and excitement (symphonic crecendos, rock) you need dynamic (cone) speakers.  

High end cone speakers will give you all the things that stats or magnetic planars can, but its expensive.  Eg.  The Maggie 20.1&#039;s are appx $20K.  Good, say, Martin Logan stats might be $15K.  My dynamic Strads are $45K.  

That all said, if you want to dream, the best speakers in the world today.....I think there can be no doubt:  Magico.  The M5 is a home version, and a cool $90K.  I&#039;ve heard them.  They make you wilt.

Studio version (or extreme home) is the Ultimate II.  So heavy they assemble on site.  Think $300K.

Having fun yet?

Just for fun you should have a listen in a high end St. Louis shop (St Louis, right??) 

If you can&#039;t find them, then in Chicago:  Quintessence Audio.  They are on the web.  Ask for Mick.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Charles -</p>
<p>A couple last points.  Yes, both type of planar speakers, Maggies and Stats, are beautiful for transparency and sound staging because of the basic physics.....you are only moving thin films.</p>
<p>However, if you want what the reviewers call "dynamics" which really means moving alot of air to create that gut sense of weight and excitement (symphonic crecendos, rock) you need dynamic (cone) speakers.  </p>
<p>High end cone speakers will give you all the things that stats or magnetic planars can, but its expensive.  Eg.  The Maggie 20.1's are appx $20K.  Good, say, Martin Logan stats might be $15K.  My dynamic Strads are $45K.  </p>
<p>That all said, if you want to dream, the best speakers in the world today.....I think there can be no doubt:  Magico.  The M5 is a home version, and a cool $90K.  I've heard them.  They make you wilt.</p>
<p>Studio version (or extreme home) is the Ultimate II.  So heavy they assemble on site.  Think $300K.</p>
<p>Having fun yet?</p>
<p>Just for fun you should have a listen in a high end St. Louis shop (St Louis, right??) </p>
<p>If you can't find them, then in Chicago:  Quintessence Audio.  They are on the web.  Ask for Mick.</p>
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		<title>By: charles austin</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/rock_is_dead_they_say/comment-page-3/#comment-1038692</link>
		<dc:creator>charles austin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 16:31:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=35543#comment-1038692</guid>
		<description>Drew, I passed $10K some years ago when I went to active amplification, but I haven&#039;t changed anything for over ten years.  I put some stock into the Linn theory about spending the most on source, but opinions are as varied here as anywhere.  I&#039;ve found the imaging to be outstanding with my Linn equipment.  Anyway, I&#039;ll probably have to move to have a room to justify an upgrade now.  Well, that and getting the kids through college.

Philosophically speaking, and this is true of most things and not just audiophile equipment, it isn&#039;t always true that you get what you pay for but it is almost universally true that you won&#039;t get what you don&#039;t pay for.  When I spent more time on it in the past, finding the best value in audio equipment was a friendly challenge, just like finding really good wines for under $20.

I had a good friend who had Magnapans and they were very nice for some music, though seemingly a little light on the low end, and really cool to see the first time.  I&#039;ve always liked the warm tube sound, but never owned any myself.

Thanks to you and anjin-san for the tips.  I appreciate it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Drew, I passed $10K some years ago when I went to active amplification, but I haven't changed anything for over ten years.  I put some stock into the Linn theory about spending the most on source, but opinions are as varied here as anywhere.  I've found the imaging to be outstanding with my Linn equipment.  Anyway, I'll probably have to move to have a room to justify an upgrade now.  Well, that and getting the kids through college.</p>
<p>Philosophically speaking, and this is true of most things and not just audiophile equipment, it isn't always true that you get what you pay for but it is almost universally true that you won't get what you don't pay for.  When I spent more time on it in the past, finding the best value in audio equipment was a friendly challenge, just like finding really good wines for under $20.</p>
<p>I had a good friend who had Magnapans and they were very nice for some music, though seemingly a little light on the low end, and really cool to see the first time.  I've always liked the warm tube sound, but never owned any myself.</p>
<p>Thanks to you and anjin-san for the tips.  I appreciate it.</p>
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		<title>By: anjin-san</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/rock_is_dead_they_say/comment-page-3/#comment-1038595</link>
		<dc:creator>anjin-san</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 14:30:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=35543#comment-1038595</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;with Sonny Rollins contributing the sax solo&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Theres more to the story. Rollins was suffering from something of a creative block, with no idea of what he wanted to play and time to come up with something running out. (I suspect the unfamiliar environment of a rock &amp; roll recording messed with his head a bit).

Jagger was dancing around the studio during a playback of his vocal track. Suddenly inspired, Rollins grabbed his sax and asked Mick to keep dancing. The solo is Rollins&#039; interpretation of &quot;The Mick dance&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>with Sonny Rollins contributing the sax solo</p></blockquote>
<p>Theres more to the story. Rollins was suffering from something of a creative block, with no idea of what he wanted to play and time to come up with something running out. (I suspect the unfamiliar environment of a rock &amp; roll recording messed with his head a bit).</p>
<p>Jagger was dancing around the studio during a playback of his vocal track. Suddenly inspired, Rollins grabbed his sax and asked Mick to keep dancing. The solo is Rollins' interpretation of "The Mick dance".</p>
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		<title>By: Bithead</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/rock_is_dead_they_say/comment-page-3/#comment-1038593</link>
		<dc:creator>Bithead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 14:18:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=35543#comment-1038593</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Wouldn&#039;t even consider NT for a server though, get yourself a Debian CD.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Didn&#039;t notice this before.

The reason that 7000 is on NT is a complex one, involving the RAID array. It&#039;ll support 12 spindles on one array, (Meaning with today&#039;s SCSI drives  you can make absolutely HUGE physical arrays, well beyond the limit of NT, in fact)  but the drivers only work under Windows, and the thing simply won&#039;t go to 2000. I know, I tried to sneak the NT driver in under 2000, as I have for other things. It won&#039;t go. And their support for Linux variations on the thing was always a little limited.  Officially IBM approved versions of lin/unis would work, but I never got around to it. Much easier to hack up an old desktop for the purpose. Heh... cheaper too, since they come free, except for the bigger drives I use.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Wouldn't even consider NT for a server though, get yourself a Debian CD.</p></blockquote>
<p>Didn't notice this before.</p>
<p>The reason that 7000 is on NT is a complex one, involving the RAID array. It'll support 12 spindles on one array, (Meaning with today's SCSI drives  you can make absolutely HUGE physical arrays, well beyond the limit of NT, in fact)  but the drivers only work under Windows, and the thing simply won't go to 2000. I know, I tried to sneak the NT driver in under 2000, as I have for other things. It won't go. And their support for Linux variations on the thing was always a little limited.  Officially IBM approved versions of lin/unis would work, but I never got around to it. Much easier to hack up an old desktop for the purpose. Heh... cheaper too, since they come free, except for the bigger drives I use.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/rock_is_dead_they_say/comment-page-3/#comment-1038571</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 13:22:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=35543#comment-1038571</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I&#039;m running W2K on them since I got the licenses a number of years ago. Running an old style Windows domain soles a few complications for me.&lt;/blockquote&gt;Well, that&#039;s better than NT 3 or 4.  You&#039;d still probably get better performance out of Linux and Samba though, especially if it has some memory to spare.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Why Debian over Suse or even Solaris? ... Just asking. Hell, if I could afford a small Sunfire, I&#039;d run Solaris meownself.&lt;/blockquote&gt;Mostly personal preference.  I find Apt a better package manager than RPM, and light years ahead of SysV packages. I generally use Ubuntu these days, but there&#039;s not much difference between that and Debian on a server install.

I&#039;d recommend Linux over Solaris on any non-Sparc architecture just because it has better hardware support, but if you have a Sparc then Solaris is definitely a good option.  The GNU userland is generally better supported than Sun&#039;s also.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I'm running W2K on them since I got the licenses a number of years ago. Running an old style Windows domain soles a few complications for me.</p></blockquote>
<p>Well, that's better than NT 3 or 4.  You'd still probably get better performance out of Linux and Samba though, especially if it has some memory to spare.</p>
<blockquote><p>Why Debian over Suse or even Solaris? ... Just asking. Hell, if I could afford a small Sunfire, I'd run Solaris meownself.</p></blockquote>
<p>Mostly personal preference.  I find Apt a better package manager than RPM, and light years ahead of SysV packages. I generally use Ubuntu these days, but there's not much difference between that and Debian on a server install.</p>
<p>I'd recommend Linux over Solaris on any non-Sparc architecture just because it has better hardware support, but if you have a Sparc then Solaris is definitely a good option.  The GNU userland is generally better supported than Sun's also.</p>
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