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	<title>Comments on: Romney Signs Universal Health Care Bill</title>
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		<title>By: bryan</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/romney_signs_universal_health_care_bill_/comment-page-1/#comment-78874</link>
		<dc:creator>bryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Apr 2006 14:39:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/04/romney_signs_universal_health_care_bill_/#comment-78874</guid>
		<description>One wonders how the people who are suddenly getting this health care &quot;benefit&quot; and seeing their wages decline are feeling about this latest Mass. miracle?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One wonders how the people who are suddenly getting this health care "benefit" and seeing their wages decline are feeling about this latest Mass. miracle?</p>
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		<title>By: The Glittering Eye</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/romney_signs_universal_health_care_bill_/comment-page-1/#comment-78871</link>
		<dc:creator>The Glittering Eye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Apr 2006 14:17:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/04/romney_signs_universal_health_care_bill_/#comment-78871</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Massachusetts, medicine, and maintenance plans...&lt;/strong&gt;

Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney has signed a bill there into law which makes Massachusetts the first state in the Union to mandate universal health insurance:
BOSTON - By next summer, Massachusetts may cross a threshold that has eluded presidents, g...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Massachusetts, medicine, and maintenance plans...</strong></p>
<p>Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney has signed a bill there into law which makes Massachusetts the first state in the Union to mandate universal health insurance:<br />
BOSTON - By next summer, Massachusetts may cross a threshold that has eluded presidents, g...</p>
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		<title>By: ICallMasICM</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/romney_signs_universal_health_care_bill_/comment-page-1/#comment-78850</link>
		<dc:creator>ICallMasICM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Apr 2006 13:08:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/04/romney_signs_universal_health_care_bill_/#comment-78850</guid>
		<description>As someone who operates a small business in MA I would offer that there are about a million problems with this but who&#039;s counting. &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2006/04/13/joy_worries_on_healthcare/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;This&lt;/a&gt; should be a little disconcerting plus factor this in. If I own a small business employing 11 or more people (I don&#039;t employee 11 but could in the foreseeable future)I could cut my cost of supplying them group health by about 90% by terminating the group health plan and paying the $295 per worker. Then the insurance is compulsary to the individual and if they are making less than 3 times the poverty level around $45K then they get a state subsidy. In most industries in this state that&#039;s not going to happen because subsidized health is part of the comp package but in small low wage companies (ie. cleaning, delivery) there would be a lot of incentive to pay the $295 and shift the burden over to the worker and ultimately the taxpayer. Obviously I have some problems with the idea that you can force anyone to buy health insurance who doesn&#039;t want to bear the expense for whatever reason but the other problem I have as an employer is that the gov&#039;t is now deciding how I have to compensate my employees. There&#039;s a reason why MA is one of two states in the US to lose population and why it lags in job creation. MA is 7th in per capita tax burden and has one of the highest COL in the nation. The second is interference. When Gillette sold out to P&amp;G CEO James Kitts said flat out that there&#039;s an anti-business environment in MA and there is. Now the gov&#039;t is requiring businesses to provide a form of compensation to all employees or pay a surcharge to the state. MA already requires one of the highest contributions for unemployment insurance and has a 5.3% state income tax rate and a 5% state sales tax. And they wonder why they&#039;re hemorrhaging population and jobs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As someone who operates a small business in MA I would offer that there are about a million problems with this but who's counting. <a href="http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2006/04/13/joy_worries_on_healthcare/" rel="nofollow">This</a> should be a little disconcerting plus factor this in. If I own a small business employing 11 or more people (I don't employee 11 but could in the foreseeable future)I could cut my cost of supplying them group health by about 90% by terminating the group health plan and paying the $295 per worker. Then the insurance is compulsary to the individual and if they are making less than 3 times the poverty level around $45K then they get a state subsidy. In most industries in this state that's not going to happen because subsidized health is part of the comp package but in small low wage companies (ie. cleaning, delivery) there would be a lot of incentive to pay the $295 and shift the burden over to the worker and ultimately the taxpayer. Obviously I have some problems with the idea that you can force anyone to buy health insurance who doesn't want to bear the expense for whatever reason but the other problem I have as an employer is that the gov't is now deciding how I have to compensate my employees. There's a reason why MA is one of two states in the US to lose population and why it lags in job creation. MA is 7th in per capita tax burden and has one of the highest COL in the nation. The second is interference. When Gillette sold out to P&amp;G CEO James Kitts said flat out that there's an anti-business environment in MA and there is. Now the gov't is requiring businesses to provide a form of compensation to all employees or pay a surcharge to the state. MA already requires one of the highest contributions for unemployment insurance and has a 5.3% state income tax rate and a 5% state sales tax. And they wonder why they're hemorrhaging population and jobs.</p>
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		<title>By: Lunacy</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/romney_signs_universal_health_care_bill_/comment-page-1/#comment-78825</link>
		<dc:creator>Lunacy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Apr 2006 02:12:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/04/romney_signs_universal_health_care_bill_/#comment-78825</guid>
		<description>And BTW: POS equals Piece of S#*t

As in junker he needs to rebuild.

Himself.

Without Romney&#039;s assistance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And BTW: POS equals Piece of S#*t</p>
<p>As in junker he needs to rebuild.</p>
<p>Himself.</p>
<p>Without Romney's assistance.</p>
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		<title>By: Lunacy</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/romney_signs_universal_health_care_bill_/comment-page-1/#comment-78824</link>
		<dc:creator>Lunacy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Apr 2006 02:11:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/04/romney_signs_universal_health_care_bill_/#comment-78824</guid>
		<description>If he became seriously ill I&#039;d pay for it the same way I&#039;ve paid for everything else.

With cash or credit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If he became seriously ill I'd pay for it the same way I've paid for everything else.</p>
<p>With cash or credit.</p>
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		<title>By: anjin-san</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/romney_signs_universal_health_care_bill_/comment-page-1/#comment-78823</link>
		<dc:creator>anjin-san</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Apr 2006 01:51:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/04/romney_signs_universal_health_care_bill_/#comment-78823</guid>
		<description>And if lunacy&#039;s son had, god forbid, become seriously ill?  Guess a cool car would be the least of anyones worries...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And if lunacy's son had, god forbid, become seriously ill?  Guess a cool car would be the least of anyones worries...</p>
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		<title>By: Lunacy</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/romney_signs_universal_health_care_bill_/comment-page-1/#comment-78820</link>
		<dc:creator>Lunacy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Apr 2006 00:31:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/04/romney_signs_universal_health_care_bill_/#comment-78820</guid>
		<description>SOME people choose not to buy health insurance because they never use it, not because it is too expensive. 

Well, it&#039;s obviously too expensive if you never need to use it.

I spent years buying health insurance for my son and myself. I used it for my son one time, and that was only because he needed medication. After 5 or 6 years I dropped him from the company family plan (which, by the way, cost me the same as it cost the ladies with 5 sons). I often felt guilty about it but got over it quickly when I considered the racket. 

I got his shots at the health department. What more does a healthy kid need? I spent around 100 dollars a month for 5 to 6 years to insure a kid who has never even had stitches, let alone strept throat or a broken arm. His boy scout check ups cost 45 dollars.

He is now 19. So, in the 18 years that he was my legal responsibility, I personally spent around 8000 dollars on insurance over 5 to 6 years, 3000 for braces that weren&#039;t covered, 300 on dentistry that wasn&#039;t covered and 300 dollars on routine visits after I dropped him from my work insurance. So essentially, I spent much more on unused insurance than I did without the insurance, even if you factor in what wasn&#039;t covered.

I should have dropped him years before and saved that money in an account. He&#039;d have enough to buy that POS Mustang he wants to fix up.

Maybe another part of the problem with free or universal health insurance is the same with health care in general. People tend to think they are entitled to exist without any suffering or  strife. They don&#039;t know how to administer their own care without the oversight of a doctor. And they demand to be set to right over the least bit of deviation from normal.

Let&#039;s take the common cold. There is no cure. Why waste your time and your doctors&#039; time on a visit that cannot possibly do anything practical for your ailment? 

I could say more but I&#039;ve said enough. My father is a retired ER physician. I currently work at a teaching hospital. In all my raising I never went to the doctor unless I knew something was wrong that I couldn&#039;t deal with myself, through either ignorace, lack of skills or the laws of drug distribution. However, I am surrounded by people who consume health care services and medications like they were essential needs for the most benign and exaggerated ailments/ discomforts/ disorders. I&#039;m not sure I want to call them hypochondriacs but I don&#039;t have a better term at the moment. 

Lunacy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SOME people choose not to buy health insurance because they never use it, not because it is too expensive. </p>
<p>Well, it's obviously too expensive if you never need to use it.</p>
<p>I spent years buying health insurance for my son and myself. I used it for my son one time, and that was only because he needed medication. After 5 or 6 years I dropped him from the company family plan (which, by the way, cost me the same as it cost the ladies with 5 sons). I often felt guilty about it but got over it quickly when I considered the racket. </p>
<p>I got his shots at the health department. What more does a healthy kid need? I spent around 100 dollars a month for 5 to 6 years to insure a kid who has never even had stitches, let alone strept throat or a broken arm. His boy scout check ups cost 45 dollars.</p>
<p>He is now 19. So, in the 18 years that he was my legal responsibility, I personally spent around 8000 dollars on insurance over 5 to 6 years, 3000 for braces that weren't covered, 300 on dentistry that wasn't covered and 300 dollars on routine visits after I dropped him from my work insurance. So essentially, I spent much more on unused insurance than I did without the insurance, even if you factor in what wasn't covered.</p>
<p>I should have dropped him years before and saved that money in an account. He'd have enough to buy that POS Mustang he wants to fix up.</p>
<p>Maybe another part of the problem with free or universal health insurance is the same with health care in general. People tend to think they are entitled to exist without any suffering or  strife. They don't know how to administer their own care without the oversight of a doctor. And they demand to be set to right over the least bit of deviation from normal.</p>
<p>Let's take the common cold. There is no cure. Why waste your time and your doctors' time on a visit that cannot possibly do anything practical for your ailment? </p>
<p>I could say more but I've said enough. My father is a retired ER physician. I currently work at a teaching hospital. In all my raising I never went to the doctor unless I knew something was wrong that I couldn't deal with myself, through either ignorace, lack of skills or the laws of drug distribution. However, I am surrounded by people who consume health care services and medications like they were essential needs for the most benign and exaggerated ailments/ discomforts/ disorders. I'm not sure I want to call them hypochondriacs but I don't have a better term at the moment. </p>
<p>Lunacy</p>
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		<title>By: Unpartisan.com Political News and Blog Aggregator</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/romney_signs_universal_health_care_bill_/comment-page-1/#comment-78813</link>
		<dc:creator>Unpartisan.com Political News and Blog Aggregator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Apr 2006 22:22:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/04/romney_signs_universal_health_care_bill_/#comment-78813</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Massachusetts Governor to Sign Health Bill...&lt;/strong&gt;

With Massachusetts basking in the national spotlight for its sweeping proposal to require all citize...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Massachusetts Governor to Sign Health Bill...</strong></p>
<p>With Massachusetts basking in the national spotlight for its sweeping proposal to require all citize...</p>
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		<title>By: floyd</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/romney_signs_universal_health_care_bill_/comment-page-1/#comment-78811</link>
		<dc:creator>floyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Apr 2006 22:03:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/04/romney_signs_universal_health_care_bill_/#comment-78811</guid>
		<description>now let&#039;s all just sit back and watch the law of unintended consequences at work. this should be fun![lol]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>now let's all just sit back and watch the law of unintended consequences at work. this should be fun![lol]</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Verdon</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/romney_signs_universal_health_care_bill_/comment-page-1/#comment-78806</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Verdon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Apr 2006 21:50:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/04/romney_signs_universal_health_care_bill_/#comment-78806</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;If it actually works, even at a higher cost, itâ??s a good thing, and Iâ??m willing to sacrifice my high-minded theory in favor of, â??hey, it actually works.â??&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Uhhmmm Russel, if the costs are higher, then it isn&#039;t actually working.  As you note, substituting visits to the general practitioner vs. the ER could save money.  But if the end result is that we end up spending even more money, then the plan is a failure.

After all, even the uninsured have access to health care, they just go to emergency rooms that cannot turn them away.  So it isn&#039;t really a coverage issue, it is an incentive issue (as you are framing it).  If the incentives work, but cost us more, then why bother.  Go with the cheaper model, IMO.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>If it actually works, even at a higher cost, itâ??s a good thing, and Iâ??m willing to sacrifice my high-minded theory in favor of, â??hey, it actually works.â??</p></blockquote>
<p>Uhhmmm Russel, if the costs are higher, then it isn't actually working.  As you note, substituting visits to the general practitioner vs. the ER could save money.  But if the end result is that we end up spending even more money, then the plan is a failure.</p>
<p>After all, even the uninsured have access to health care, they just go to emergency rooms that cannot turn them away.  So it isn't really a coverage issue, it is an incentive issue (as you are framing it).  If the incentives work, but cost us more, then why bother.  Go with the cheaper model, IMO.</p>
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		<title>By: Russell Newquist</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/romney_signs_universal_health_care_bill_/comment-page-1/#comment-78789</link>
		<dc:creator>Russell Newquist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Apr 2006 20:00:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/04/romney_signs_universal_health_care_bill_/#comment-78789</guid>
		<description>&quot;Indeed, the plan will have the overall effect of increasing demand, since some people who would only go to the doctor in an emergency will now go more routinely.&quot;

Yes, but I&#039;m not sure if this change in demand is going to impact prices in an upward or downward manner.  Remember, if you only go to the doctor in an emergency, you&#039;re probably going to the ER rather than a family doctor - and ER care is MUCH more expensive, and the real area that&#039;s overworked right now.

If these same people start going to see a normal general practitioner (either a true family doctor or a walk-in clinic), then the ER is going to waste a lot less time and effort on patients who don&#039;t truly have emergencies, and insurance providers are going to spend a lot less money on these patients.

So while the total demand for health care may rise, the redistribution of the demand makes it very unclear how this will impact prices in the real world.

I&#039;m philosophically opposed to large parts of this plan as well.  But even so, I have to admit that it just might actually accomplish something, and it looks a lot more promising than anything else I&#039;ve seen proposed by pretty much anybody ever.  If it actually works, even at a higher cost, it&#039;s a good thing, and I&#039;m willing to sacrifice my high-minded theory in favor of, &quot;hey, it actually works.&quot;

That is, however, &lt;em&gt;if&lt;/em&gt; it actually works, and that remains to be seen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"Indeed, the plan will have the overall effect of increasing demand, since some people who would only go to the doctor in an emergency will now go more routinely."</p>
<p>Yes, but I'm not sure if this change in demand is going to impact prices in an upward or downward manner.  Remember, if you only go to the doctor in an emergency, you're probably going to the ER rather than a family doctor - and ER care is MUCH more expensive, and the real area that's overworked right now.</p>
<p>If these same people start going to see a normal general practitioner (either a true family doctor or a walk-in clinic), then the ER is going to waste a lot less time and effort on patients who don't truly have emergencies, and insurance providers are going to spend a lot less money on these patients.</p>
<p>So while the total demand for health care may rise, the redistribution of the demand makes it very unclear how this will impact prices in the real world.</p>
<p>I'm philosophically opposed to large parts of this plan as well.  But even so, I have to admit that it just might actually accomplish something, and it looks a lot more promising than anything else I've seen proposed by pretty much anybody ever.  If it actually works, even at a higher cost, it's a good thing, and I'm willing to sacrifice my high-minded theory in favor of, "hey, it actually works."</p>
<p>That is, however, <em>if</em> it actually works, and that remains to be seen.</p>
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		<title>By: just me</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/romney_signs_universal_health_care_bill_/comment-page-1/#comment-78787</link>
		<dc:creator>just me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Apr 2006 19:56:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/04/romney_signs_universal_health_care_bill_/#comment-78787</guid>
		<description>I agree with Steve-I think half the problem with healthcare is that too much of it is perceived as being &quot;free.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Steve-I think half the problem with healthcare is that too much of it is perceived as being "free."</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Verdon</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/romney_signs_universal_health_care_bill_/comment-page-1/#comment-78786</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Verdon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Apr 2006 19:26:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/04/romney_signs_universal_health_care_bill_/#comment-78786</guid>
		<description>And nobody stops to think that maybe giving away &quot;free&quot; health care could be the reason for the exploding costs.  This kind of economics isn&#039;t rocket science, but for some damn reason this obvious answer seems to elude just about everyone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And nobody stops to think that maybe giving away "free" health care could be the reason for the exploding costs.  This kind of economics isn't rocket science, but for some damn reason this obvious answer seems to elude just about everyone.</p>
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