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	<title>Comments on: Russia Threatens Poland with Military Strike</title>
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		<title>By: grampagravy</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/russia_threatens_poland_with_military_strike/comment-page-1/#comment-500207</link>
		<dc:creator>grampagravy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Aug 2008 12:33:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=24860#comment-500207</guid>
		<description>Why do I have this sneaking suspicion that pushing for missiles in Poland right now is more about influencing American voters than defending against any real threat to Eastern Europe? What better way to get another idiot warmonger elected?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why do I have this sneaking suspicion that pushing for missiles in Poland right now is more about influencing American voters than defending against any real threat to Eastern Europe? What better way to get another idiot warmonger elected?</p>
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		<title>By: JohnG</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/russia_threatens_poland_with_military_strike/comment-page-1/#comment-500125</link>
		<dc:creator>JohnG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Aug 2008 10:36:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=24860#comment-500125</guid>
		<description>Blaming the US for why Russia is suddenly deciding to rebuild its empire does not tell us what we need to do to stop Russia from re-enslaving Eastern Europe.  Besides, looking at how Russia&#039;s media campaign went about justifying their current conquest of Georgia, I&#039;m certain that the Russians are counting on Western self-blame to give them the opportunity to extend outwards once again.

Considering that the missile system in Poland would be mostly ineffective against a full Russian strike, I doubt that Russia truly feels threatened by what we&#039;re doing in Poland.  Even if they did, it&#039;s their invasion of Georgia that pushed Poland into agreeing to base the missile system in the first place.  Poland has a much more legitimate fear of Russia than Russia does of Poland, and Poland being our staunch ally while Russia is at best neutral and more likely more of an enemy than China ever will be, who cares what the Russians think?  Our concern should be about what the Polish think, otherwise why do we have allies in the first place?

Russian has never given a damn about what other countries think, except for the fear of US nuclear reprisal.  If they really want to invade Poland, they&#039;ll wait till they can find an excuse, or eventually they&#039;ll just do it anyway.  Instead of worring about whether or not we&#039;re giving the Russians an excuse to invade its former satellites, we should be worrying about how we are going to convince Russia that recreating their empire would be suicidal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Blaming the US for why Russia is suddenly deciding to rebuild its empire does not tell us what we need to do to stop Russia from re-enslaving Eastern Europe.  Besides, looking at how Russia's media campaign went about justifying their current conquest of Georgia, I'm certain that the Russians are counting on Western self-blame to give them the opportunity to extend outwards once again.</p>
<p>Considering that the missile system in Poland would be mostly ineffective against a full Russian strike, I doubt that Russia truly feels threatened by what we're doing in Poland.  Even if they did, it's their invasion of Georgia that pushed Poland into agreeing to base the missile system in the first place.  Poland has a much more legitimate fear of Russia than Russia does of Poland, and Poland being our staunch ally while Russia is at best neutral and more likely more of an enemy than China ever will be, who cares what the Russians think?  Our concern should be about what the Polish think, otherwise why do we have allies in the first place?</p>
<p>Russian has never given a damn about what other countries think, except for the fear of US nuclear reprisal.  If they really want to invade Poland, they'll wait till they can find an excuse, or eventually they'll just do it anyway.  Instead of worring about whether or not we're giving the Russians an excuse to invade its former satellites, we should be worrying about how we are going to convince Russia that recreating their empire would be suicidal.</p>
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		<title>By: davod</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/russia_threatens_poland_with_military_strike/comment-page-1/#comment-500029</link>
		<dc:creator>davod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Aug 2008 09:05:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=24860#comment-500029</guid>
		<description>&quot;And the First World War. Which as I recall, the Russians were the first to militirize.&quot;

Weren&#039;t the Germans and Austrians already militarized?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"And the First World War. Which as I recall, the Russians were the first to militirize."</p>
<p>Weren't the Germans and Austrians already militarized?</p>
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		<title>By: Phelice</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/russia_threatens_poland_with_military_strike/comment-page-1/#comment-499922</link>
		<dc:creator>Phelice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Aug 2008 07:10:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=24860#comment-499922</guid>
		<description>&quot;and it&#039;s *Russia* that flexes its muscles by warning Poland that those missiles will be duly targeted?&quot;

Yes. The systems can only be used for defense and the stated purpose of them are for defense from Iran. If I&#039;m expected to believe upon face value that Iran is only pursuing nuclear technology for peaceful purposes, why can&#039;t the other side assume we&#039;re being true to our stated purpose? Besides, why is Russia so concerned about them? If they&#039;re not planning on launching a nuke at Europe, there&#039;s nothing to fear. 

If Russia wants to get into a military p*ss fight, things will get ugly. But our Ruskie friends won&#039;t come out victorious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"and it's *Russia* that flexes its muscles by warning Poland that those missiles will be duly targeted?"</p>
<p>Yes. The systems can only be used for defense and the stated purpose of them are for defense from Iran. If I'm expected to believe upon face value that Iran is only pursuing nuclear technology for peaceful purposes, why can't the other side assume we're being true to our stated purpose? Besides, why is Russia so concerned about them? If they're not planning on launching a nuke at Europe, there's nothing to fear. </p>
<p>If Russia wants to get into a military p*ss fight, things will get ugly. But our Ruskie friends won't come out victorious.</p>
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		<title>By: PD Shaw</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/russia_threatens_poland_with_military_strike/comment-page-1/#comment-499801</link>
		<dc:creator>PD Shaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Aug 2008 02:32:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=24860#comment-499801</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I see that Bear Stearn has forgotten about Japan.&lt;/blockquote&gt;


And the First World War.  Which as I recall, the Russians were the first to militirize.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I see that Bear Stearn has forgotten about Japan.</p></blockquote>
<p>And the First World War.  Which as I recall, the Russians were the first to militirize.</p>
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		<title>By: Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/russia_threatens_poland_with_military_strike/comment-page-1/#comment-499777</link>
		<dc:creator>Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Aug 2008 02:07:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=24860#comment-499777</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;and that Russia was unlikely to flex their muscles further&lt;/em&gt;

JJ, I think I missed something here.

Russia&#039;s neighbor Poland is going to host missiles intended for use vs. Russia ...

... and it&#039;s *Russia* that flexes its muscles by warning Poland that those missiles will be duly targeted?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>and that Russia was unlikely to flex their muscles further</em></p>
<p>JJ, I think I missed something here.</p>
<p>Russia's neighbor Poland is going to host missiles intended for use vs. Russia ...</p>
<p>... and it's *Russia* that flexes its muscles by warning Poland that those missiles will be duly targeted?</p>
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		<title>By: Bear Stearn</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/russia_threatens_poland_with_military_strike/comment-page-1/#comment-499677</link>
		<dc:creator>Bear Stearn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Aug 2008 00:39:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=24860#comment-499677</guid>
		<description>Misha:
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8K0UTKJUvw&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8K0UTKJUvw&lt;/a&gt;



and the media:
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVNblG9PJMk&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVNblG9PJMk&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Misha:<br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8K0UTKJUvw" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8K0UTKJUvw</a></p>
<p>and the media:<br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVNblG9PJMk" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVNblG9PJMk</a></p>
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		<title>By: Bear Stearn</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/russia_threatens_poland_with_military_strike/comment-page-1/#comment-499666</link>
		<dc:creator>Bear Stearn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Aug 2008 00:22:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=24860#comment-499666</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I see that Bear Stearn has forgotten about Japan.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
No, I haven&#039;t. The Russians have lost many small wars and won even more of them. 
I wasn&#039;t so much making a prediction for the future as I was trying to point the obvious military threat to Russia - coming from the West. This general simply said that in case of a military conflict with NATO, Russia would hit Poland with nukes. There are a lot of military reasons for that and some historical as well - the most powerful armies of their times have attacked Russia with total devastating wars. Russians know what is coming and the response is going to be of a kind. 

As far as winners and losers go, looking at the state of US finance and continuing political and financial corruption... War is won not only with arms!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I see that Bear Stearn has forgotten about Japan.</p></blockquote>
<p>No, I haven't. The Russians have lost many small wars and won even more of them.<br />
I wasn't so much making a prediction for the future as I was trying to point the obvious military threat to Russia - coming from the West. This general simply said that in case of a military conflict with NATO, Russia would hit Poland with nukes. There are a lot of military reasons for that and some historical as well - the most powerful armies of their times have attacked Russia with total devastating wars. Russians know what is coming and the response is going to be of a kind. </p>
<p>As far as winners and losers go, looking at the state of US finance and continuing political and financial corruption... War is won not only with arms!</p>
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		<title>By: DC Loser</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/russia_threatens_poland_with_military_strike/comment-page-1/#comment-499653</link>
		<dc:creator>DC Loser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Aug 2008 00:01:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=24860#comment-499653</guid>
		<description>Misha&#039;s performance at his press conference with Condi today was way over the top and very whiny.  If only he&#039;d admit he made a very big mistake in poking the bear in the first place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Misha's performance at his press conference with Condi today was way over the top and very whiny.  If only he'd admit he made a very big mistake in poking the bear in the first place.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Schuler</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/russia_threatens_poland_with_military_strike/comment-page-1/#comment-499640</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Schuler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 23:47:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=24860#comment-499640</guid>
		<description>I see that Bear Stearn has forgotten about Japan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see that Bear Stearn has forgotten about Japan.</p>
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		<title>By: Bear Stearn</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/russia_threatens_poland_with_military_strike/comment-page-1/#comment-499603</link>
		<dc:creator>Bear Stearn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 23:02:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=24860#comment-499603</guid>
		<description>Russia have been attacked by the west for centuries. Napoleon attacked it unprovoked. England attacked it unprovoked. Hitler attacked it unprovoked. In fact, every western nation which rises to the status of a great power eventually have attacked Russia. And Russia have always fought back and ... won. It doesn&#039;t seem to be any different this time around. Weird but true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Russia have been attacked by the west for centuries. Napoleon attacked it unprovoked. England attacked it unprovoked. Hitler attacked it unprovoked. In fact, every western nation which rises to the status of a great power eventually have attacked Russia. And Russia have always fought back and ... won. It doesn't seem to be any different this time around. Weird but true.</p>
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		<title>By: John Burgess</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/russia_threatens_poland_with_military_strike/comment-page-1/#comment-499535</link>
		<dc:creator>John Burgess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 22:04:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=24860#comment-499535</guid>
		<description>This is going to piss off the Poles more than a little. As a result, I wouldn&#039;t be surprised if Poland decided to give full basing rights to the US bilaterally, outside the scope of NATO.

I also suspect that reminders of &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish-Soviet_War&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a particular piece of Polish history&lt;/a&gt; are being brushed off and fed into the Polish political discussion. The statues of Józef Piłsudski, are certainly being shined up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is going to piss off the Poles more than a little. As a result, I wouldn't be surprised if Poland decided to give full basing rights to the US bilaterally, outside the scope of NATO.</p>
<p>I also suspect that reminders of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish-Soviet_War" rel="nofollow">a particular piece of Polish history</a> are being brushed off and fed into the Polish political discussion. The statues of Józef Piłsudski, are certainly being shined up.</p>
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		<title>By: charles austin</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/russia_threatens_poland_with_military_strike/comment-page-1/#comment-499451</link>
		<dc:creator>charles austin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 21:14:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=24860#comment-499451</guid>
		<description>Somewhere Ben Stein is saying, &quot;Alex..., Alex..., Alex...&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Somewhere Ben Stein is saying, "Alex..., Alex..., Alex..."</p>
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		<title>By: Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/russia_threatens_poland_with_military_strike/comment-page-1/#comment-499426</link>
		<dc:creator>Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 21:05:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=24860#comment-499426</guid>
		<description>In Russia&#039;s history, two kinds of power occupy Poland:  Russia, or an enemy of Russia&#039;s.

Their concern is not anything out of the ordinary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In Russia's history, two kinds of power occupy Poland:  Russia, or an enemy of Russia's.</p>
<p>Their concern is not anything out of the ordinary.</p>
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		<title>By: yetanotherjohn</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/russia_threatens_poland_with_military_strike/comment-page-1/#comment-499418</link>
		<dc:creator>yetanotherjohn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 21:02:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=24860#comment-499418</guid>
		<description>I was referring to this &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/11/air_force_grounds_f-15s/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;post&lt;/a&gt; from November 8, 2007.

&lt;blockquote&gt; That doesn’t mean, however, that we need to replace them all with ridiculously expensive F-22s. Much cheaper new F-15s would more than fill the need in most cases.
...
The F-22 was designed to fight a Cold War mission that no longer exists. Potential adversaries are improving their fleet with Russian-made jets, so we need upgrades. It’s doubtful, though, that we need a fleet of F-22s and F-35s.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was referring to this <a href="http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/11/air_force_grounds_f-15s/" rel="nofollow">post</a> from November 8, 2007.</p>
<blockquote><p> That doesn&rsquo;t mean, however, that we need to replace them all with ridiculously expensive F-22s. Much cheaper new F-15s would more than fill the need in most cases.<br />
...<br />
The F-22 was designed to fight a Cold War mission that no longer exists. Potential adversaries are improving their fleet with Russian-made jets, so we need upgrades. It&rsquo;s doubtful, though, that we need a fleet of F-22s and F-35s.</p></blockquote>
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