Comments on: Schwarzenegger Denies Clemency for Tookie Williams http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/schwarzenegger_denies_clemency_for_crips_founder_tookie_williams/ Online Journal of Politics and Foreign Affairs Sat, 20 Mar 2010 03:50:13 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: Spike http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/schwarzenegger_denies_clemency_for_crips_founder_tookie_williams/comment-page-1/#comment-67902 Spike Tue, 13 Dec 2005 16:18:22 +0000 http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/12965#comment-67902 NEXT. NEXT.

]]> By: Conservative Culture » “Barabbas” Tookie Executed http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/schwarzenegger_denies_clemency_for_crips_founder_tookie_williams/comment-page-1/#comment-67898 Conservative Culture » “Barabbas” Tookie Executed Tue, 13 Dec 2005 15:47:20 +0000 http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/12965#comment-67898 [...] Unlike Pilate who ‘washed his hands’ and was unwilling to release Jesus even though he believed he was innocent, Arnold wasn’t a girlie man and stuck to his belief (based on the evidence) that ‘Tookie’ was deserving to die. I agree with Outside the Beltway that he is responsible for many crimes as the founder of the Crips. If he and other leaders (such as Jessie) would spend have their energy speaking out against the crime within their own culture then we would have less concerns about ‘discriminatory’ death penalty cases. And we might see less people like Wolf Blitzer defending such men. Though cited for his anti-gang work in prison you still have to wonder why he never apologized for the four brutal murders. Nice example for fellow gang-bangers following his steps. [...] [...] Unlike Pilate who ‘washed his hands’ and was unwilling to release Jesus even though he believed he was innocent, Arnold wasn’t a girlie man and stuck to his belief (based on the evidence) that ‘Tookie’ was deserving to die. I agree with Outside the Beltway that he is responsible for many crimes as the founder of the Crips. If he and other leaders (such as Jessie) would spend have their energy speaking out against the crime within their own culture then we would have less concerns about ‘discriminatory’ death penalty cases. And we might see less people like Wolf Blitzer defending such men. Though cited for his anti-gang work in prison you still have to wonder why he never apologized for the four brutal murders. Nice example for fellow gang-bangers following his steps. [...]

]]> By: Conservative Culture http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/schwarzenegger_denies_clemency_for_crips_founder_tookie_williams/comment-page-1/#comment-67897 Conservative Culture Tue, 13 Dec 2005 15:42:22 +0000 http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/12965#comment-67897 <strong>“Barabbas” Tookie Executed</strong> Jessie Jackson comparing the Governor to Pontius Pilate? Following that scene we would find that “Tookie” represents Barabbas. In that wonderful scene we find the people wanted the vile over the one who was innocent. Since we are drawing B... “Barabbas” Tookie Executed

Jessie Jackson comparing the Governor to Pontius Pilate? Following that scene we would find that “Tookie” represents Barabbas. In that wonderful scene we find the people wanted the vile over the one who was innocent. Since we are drawing B...

]]> By: McGehee http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/schwarzenegger_denies_clemency_for_crips_founder_tookie_williams/comment-page-1/#comment-67880 McGehee Tue, 13 Dec 2005 14:44:03 +0000 http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/12965#comment-67880 <blockquote>Let’s see the cold blooded murder of 4 people happened in 1979 and it’s now 2005. That’s a 26 year jump where tookie had access to about 20 appeals.</blockquote> Heh. I wonder what "kate" thinks about the 14-month "rush to war"?

Let’s see the cold blooded murder of 4 people happened in 1979 and it’s now 2005. That’s a 26 year jump where tookie had access to about 20 appeals.

Heh. I wonder what "kate" thinks about the 14-month "rush to war"?

]]> By: ICallMasICM http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/schwarzenegger_denies_clemency_for_crips_founder_tookie_williams/comment-page-1/#comment-67871 ICallMasICM Tue, 13 Dec 2005 14:20:51 +0000 http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/12965#comment-67871 'Seeing the responses of how people treat someone like Tookie, who has changed his ways' He didn't kill 4 people in prison? Probably because he couldn't get his hands on a shotgun. 'doesn’t give me much faith in terms of how democracy is handled in the United States.' Democracy is handled by electing representatives in local, state and national elections who serve the proscribed terms and are subject to reelection at the end of their terms. 'I am saying that the punishment should fit the crime' The people of the state of California agree with you. 'if someone is doing something to better their community' Fortunately the people of the state of California ensured that by sending Tookie to prison. 'it is a good example of showing how democracy isn’t working when people jump to conclusions and say, he should die, because of what he did' Let's see the cold blooded murder of 4 people happened in 1979 and it's now 2005. That's a 26 year jump where tookie had access to about 20 appeals. 'People living in poverty and who are marginilized because of the colour of thier skin,' Are you referring to the the three Asian grocery clerks that Tookie referred to as 'Buddhaheads' after he murderer them or the thousands of blacks and Hispanics murdered by the Crips? 'I see a sense of injustice' Perpetrated by Tookie in 4 instances and by the Crips in thousands of instances. 'a realization that all elements of society want to participate in the justice system' All elements of society don't want to be murdered by the Crips. 'Are citizens who’se voices aren’t being heard because of all the red-tape that is almost synomamous with beaurocracy feel represented?' Moreso than the victims murdered by Williams and the Crips. 'Seeing the responses of how people treat someone like Tookie, who has changed his ways'

He didn't kill 4 people in prison? Probably because he couldn't get his hands on a shotgun.

'doesn’t give me much faith in terms of how democracy is handled in the United States.'

Democracy is handled by electing representatives in local, state and national elections who serve the proscribed terms and are subject to reelection at the end of their terms.

'I am saying that the punishment should fit the crime'

The people of the state of California agree with you.

'if someone is doing something to better their community'

Fortunately the people of the state of California ensured that by sending Tookie to prison.

'it is a good example of showing how democracy isn’t working when people jump to conclusions and say, he should die, because of what he did'

Let's see the cold blooded murder of 4 people happened in 1979 and it's now 2005. That's a 26 year jump where tookie had access to about 20 appeals.

'People living in poverty and who are marginilized because of the colour of thier skin,'

Are you referring to the the three Asian grocery clerks that Tookie referred to as 'Buddhaheads' after he murderer them or the thousands of blacks and Hispanics murdered by the Crips?

'I see a sense of injustice'

Perpetrated by Tookie in 4 instances and by the Crips in thousands of instances.

'a realization that all elements of society want to participate in the justice system'

All elements of society don't want to be murdered by the Crips.

'Are citizens who’se voices aren’t being heard because of all the red-tape that is almost synomamous with beaurocracy feel represented?'

Moreso than the victims murdered by Williams and the Crips.

]]> By: Small Town Veteran http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/schwarzenegger_denies_clemency_for_crips_founder_tookie_williams/comment-page-1/#comment-67842 Small Town Veteran Tue, 13 Dec 2005 07:41:32 +0000 http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/12965#comment-67842 <strong>BURN, TOOKIE, BURN!</strong> ... I wish I could remember whom I'm quoting when I say "Every life has value. In some cases the value is just negative." ... BURN, TOOKIE, BURN!

... I wish I could remember whom I'm quoting when I say "Every life has value. In some cases the value is just negative." ...

]]> By: Jack Ehrlich http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/schwarzenegger_denies_clemency_for_crips_founder_tookie_williams/comment-page-1/#comment-67825 Jack Ehrlich Tue, 13 Dec 2005 05:22:55 +0000 http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/12965#comment-67825 Stanley Williams killed four people in cold blood. He is responsible, in no small way, for the misery and deaths of untold numbers who were victims of the Crips gangs. As Stanley was convicted of pre-meditated murder, under special circumstances, he was sentenced to die. Stanley sought to borrow time. Through legal means, Stanley managed to borrow quite a few years. Some say he put that time to good use. I ask this. Did Stanley admit and recant his crimes? No. Did Stanley dis-avow the Crips gang? No. All that can be said is that Stanley has gotten to thinking he can go on living on borrowed time. Sorry Stanley, the collector is here. Time to pay up. Those four, who got no borrowed time for you are calling. Pay up Stanley. Stanley Williams killed four people in cold blood. He is responsible, in no small way, for the misery and deaths of untold numbers who were victims of the Crips gangs. As Stanley was convicted of pre-meditated murder, under special circumstances, he was sentenced to die. Stanley sought to borrow time. Through legal means, Stanley managed to borrow quite a few years. Some say he put that time to good use. I ask this. Did Stanley admit and recant his crimes? No. Did Stanley dis-avow the Crips gang? No. All that can be said is that Stanley has gotten to thinking he can go on living on borrowed time. Sorry Stanley, the collector is here. Time to pay up. Those four, who got no borrowed time for you are calling. Pay up Stanley.

]]> By: McGehee http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/schwarzenegger_denies_clemency_for_crips_founder_tookie_williams/comment-page-1/#comment-67810 McGehee Tue, 13 Dec 2005 04:00:15 +0000 http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/12965#comment-67810 <blockquote>Seeing the responses of how people treat someone like Tookie, who has changed his ways...</blockquote> Yep, he's a real poster boy for the California Dept. of Corrections' 12-step stop-murdering-people program. Thing is, the twelfth step comes tonight.

Seeing the responses of how people treat someone like Tookie, who has changed his ways...

Yep, he's a real poster boy for the California Dept. of Corrections' 12-step stop-murdering-people program. Thing is, the twelfth step comes tonight.

]]> By: Miller's Time http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/schwarzenegger_denies_clemency_for_crips_founder_tookie_williams/comment-page-1/#comment-67809 Miller's Time Tue, 13 Dec 2005 03:58:54 +0000 http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/12965#comment-67809 <strong>Stop Me If You Have Heard This One...</strong> Two friends are walking through the woods when one gets bit by a rattlesnake. The bite happens to catch the man in the privates, and neither of them know what to do. The uninjured man runs to get help and Stop Me If You Have Heard This One...

Two friends are walking through the woods when one gets bit by a rattlesnake. The bite happens to catch the man in the privates, and neither of them know what to do. The uninjured man runs to get help and

]]> By: Anderson http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/schwarzenegger_denies_clemency_for_crips_founder_tookie_williams/comment-page-1/#comment-67806 Anderson Tue, 13 Dec 2005 03:23:34 +0000 http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/12965#comment-67806 <blockquote>I am not saying that people shouldn’t pay their debt to society, I am saying that the punishment should fit the crime, and if someone is doing something to better their community, change their ways, it is a good example of showing how democracy isn’t working when people jump to conclusions and say, he should die, because of what he did, it will only make him a stronger figure within communities where people are oppressed.</blockquote>Kate, how does what Tookie did after killing those people have anything to do with "whether the punishment fit the crime"? I mean, you're proposing that we measure 2 things: (1) Punishment (2) Crime Where does writing children's books, being nominated for the Nobel Prize, or curing cancer fit into that?

I am not saying that people shouldn’t pay their debt to society, I am saying that the punishment should fit the crime, and if someone is doing something to better their community, change their ways, it is a good example of showing how democracy isn’t working when people jump to conclusions and say, he should die, because of what he did, it will only make him a stronger figure within communities where people are oppressed.

Kate, how does what Tookie did after killing those people have anything to do with "whether the punishment fit the crime"? I mean, you're proposing that we measure 2 things:

(1) Punishment

(2) Crime

Where does writing children's books, being nominated for the Nobel Prize, or curing cancer fit into that?

]]> By: kate http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/schwarzenegger_denies_clemency_for_crips_founder_tookie_williams/comment-page-1/#comment-67792 kate Tue, 13 Dec 2005 01:53:54 +0000 http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/12965#comment-67792 I want to talk about democratization, because if the public's expectations of the justice system are not met, they will become disconnected or disengaged from it and will become cynical about its operations. Seeing the responses of how people treat someone like Tookie, who has changed his ways, doesn't give me much faith in terms of how democracy is handled in the United States. The criminal justice model has fallen waywards if people still have the notion of an eye for an eye (especially, since, in that same book, we are told not to judge others and there is a lot about forgiveness and how ultimatly, its God who is going to make the final decision in those respects. I am not saying that people shouldn't pay their debt to society, I am saying that the punishment should fit the crime, and if someone is doing something to better their community, change their ways, it is a good example of showing how democracy isn't working when people jump to conclusions and say, he should die, because of what he did, it will only make him a stronger figure within communities where people are oppressed. People living in poverty and who are marginilized because of the colour of thier skin, in these situation are rebelling against a system that has failed them. I write about democratization because, I see a sense of injustice. Democratization is both: a realization that all elements of society want to participate in the justice system, and the justice system's clear responsibility to respond to that desire in appropriate and sensitive ways. Is someone who is trully patriotic taking all considerations into account? Are citizens who'se voices aren't being heard because of all the red-tape that is almost synomamous with beaurocracy feel represented? Can these questions not be applied to other facets of everyone's life and not just what is happening to Tookie? I want to talk about democratization, because if the public's expectations of the justice system are not met, they will become disconnected or disengaged from it and will become cynical about its operations.
Seeing the responses of how people treat someone like Tookie, who has changed his ways, doesn't give me much faith in terms of how democracy is handled in the United States.
The criminal justice model has fallen waywards if people still have the notion of an eye for an eye (especially, since, in that same book, we are told not to judge others and there is a lot about forgiveness and how ultimatly, its God who is going to make the final decision in those respects. I am not saying that people shouldn't pay their debt to society, I am saying that the punishment should fit the crime, and if someone is doing something to better their community, change their ways, it is a good example of showing how democracy isn't working when people jump to conclusions and say, he should die, because of what he did, it will only make him a stronger figure within communities where people are oppressed.
People living in poverty and who are marginilized because of the colour of thier skin, in these situation are rebelling against a system that has failed them.
I write about democratization because, I see a sense of injustice. Democratization is both:

a realization that all elements of society want to participate in the justice system, and
the justice system's clear responsibility to respond to that desire in appropriate and sensitive ways.

Is someone who is trully patriotic taking all considerations into account? Are citizens who'se voices aren't being heard because of all the red-tape that is almost synomamous with beaurocracy feel represented? Can these questions not be applied to other facets of everyone's life and not just what is happening to Tookie?

]]> By: Blogs of War http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/schwarzenegger_denies_clemency_for_crips_founder_tookie_williams/comment-page-1/#comment-67791 Blogs of War Tue, 13 Dec 2005 01:37:26 +0000 http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/12965#comment-67791 <strong>Arnold Schwarzenegger Denies Stanley Tookie Williams Clemency</strong> Some of these folks should read "An Open Letter to Stanley “Tookie” Williams Supporters": Arnold Schwarzenegger Denies Stanley Tookie Williams Clemency

Some of these folks should read "An Open Letter to Stanley “Tookie” Williams Supporters":

]]> By: Right Wing Nut House http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/schwarzenegger_denies_clemency_for_crips_founder_tookie_williams/comment-page-1/#comment-67787 Right Wing Nut House Tue, 13 Dec 2005 01:14:52 +0000 http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/12965#comment-67787 <strong>NOTE TO TOOKIE: SHAKE HANDS WITH THE DEVIL FOR ME</strong> Good for the Governator: Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger refused to block the execution early Tuesday of Stanley Tookie Williams, rejecting the notion that the founder of the murderous Crips gang had atoned for his crimes and found redemption on death ... NOTE TO TOOKIE: SHAKE HANDS WITH THE DEVIL FOR ME

Good for the Governator:

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger refused to block the execution early Tuesday of Stanley Tookie Williams, rejecting the notion that the founder of the murderous Crips gang had atoned for his crimes and found redemption on death ...

]]> By: Anderson http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/schwarzenegger_denies_clemency_for_crips_founder_tookie_williams/comment-page-1/#comment-67768 Anderson Mon, 12 Dec 2005 22:38:10 +0000 http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/12965#comment-67768 I don't think that the clemency argument is ridiculous, but I don't agree with it on this case. There doesn't seem to be any serious doubt that Williams committed the murders, but he won't apologize for them. I think his alleged "redemption" is a wonderful moral story, but the debt you owe to God and the debt you owe to Caesar are not the same, as someone once pointed out. I don't think that the clemency argument is ridiculous, but I don't agree with it on this case. There doesn't seem to be any serious doubt that Williams committed the murders, but he won't apologize for them.

I think his alleged "redemption" is a wonderful moral story, but the debt you owe to God and the debt you owe to Caesar are not the same, as someone once pointed out.

]]> By: DL http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/schwarzenegger_denies_clemency_for_crips_founder_tookie_williams/comment-page-1/#comment-67767 DL Mon, 12 Dec 2005 22:17:21 +0000 http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/12965#comment-67767 Well we know whose side the NAACP is on - the bad guys! There is no way that the black community will ever take responsibility with this color of his skin being more important than the content of his character, crap. Is there no evil they won't tolerate from one of there own? Well we know whose side the NAACP is on - the bad guys! There is no way that the black community will ever take responsibility with this color of his skin being more important than the content of his character, crap.

Is there no evil they won't tolerate from one of there own?

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