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	<title>Comments on: SCIENCE VS. HUMANTITIES</title>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/science_vs_humantities/comment-page-1/#comment-512</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1401#comment-512</guid>
		<description>Heh.  Sounds a lot like journalism to me.  

But is the plural of anecdote data? I can never get that straight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heh.  Sounds a lot like journalism to me.  </p>
<p>But is the plural of anecdote data? I can never get that straight.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Lawrence</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/science_vs_humantities/comment-page-1/#comment-513</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Lawrence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1401#comment-513</guid>
		<description>We political scientists call that a &quot;case study.&quot; :-)

That being said, there are good ways to do participant observation.  Dick Fenno&#039;s done some great stuff on Congress that way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We political scientists call that a "case study." :-)</p>
<p>That being said, there are good ways to do participant observation.  Dick Fenno's done some great stuff on Congress that way.</p>
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		<title>By: Kieran Healy</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/science_vs_humantities/comment-page-1/#comment-514</link>
		<dc:creator>Kieran Healy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1401#comment-514</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/000398.html#000398&quot;&gt;Perhaps of interest.&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/000398.html#000398">Perhaps of interest.</a></p>
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		<title>By: dsquared</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/science_vs_humantities/comment-page-1/#comment-515</link>
		<dc:creator>dsquared</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1401#comment-515</guid>
		<description>&gt;&gt;Political scientists still seem to me to be calling horse races. 

A practice which is carried out in an entirely scientific manner, which accounts for the fact that you will typically get better odds on some horses than on others :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>>>Political scientists still seem to me to be calling horse races. </p>
<p>A practice which is carried out in an entirely scientific manner, which accounts for the fact that you will typically get better odds on some horses than on others :-)</p>
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		<title>By: dsquared</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/science_vs_humantities/comment-page-1/#comment-516</link>
		<dc:creator>dsquared</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1401#comment-516</guid>
		<description>(note to the above:  I jest, of course.  Bookmakers never set odds based on the probability of a horse winning, and the reason why they don&#039;t is one of the deepest things in economics.  It *is* possible to scientifically predict the winner of a horse race, it&#039;s just not possible to make any money out of it.  Unless you believe Burton Fabricand)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(note to the above:  I jest, of course.  Bookmakers never set odds based on the probability of a horse winning, and the reason why they don't is one of the deepest things in economics.  It *is* possible to scientifically predict the winner of a horse race, it's just not possible to make any money out of it.  Unless you believe Burton Fabricand)</p>
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		<title>By: Tiger</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/science_vs_humantities/comment-page-1/#comment-517</link>
		<dc:creator>Tiger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1401#comment-517</guid>
		<description>I did enjoy Jane&#039;s comment: &quot;Sociology I think is interesting, but 99% of what I&#039;ve read in the field relies on either qualitative observations or surveys, which I don&#039;t regard as rigorous data. People lie, they have poor memories, or they don&#039;t care, and their responses are far too variable.&quot; I agree with such, as surveys are so full of wholes they have no basis or foundation to support any scientific conclusion. Although I have a BA in Poli-Sci, I do not remember it being really scientific, and I did not get a BS but got a BA. Science is based upon quantitative data. While there are trends in social situations that both Poli-Sci and Sociologists can look at, such are only trends, not constants which can be used as foundations for scientific study. Physics, Chemistry, Biology, Mathematics and Geology are sciences. Theology, Political Science, Philosophy and Sociology are not Science, but can properly be labeled as behavioral sciences, as there is some evidence upon which theories can be based, but as such behaviors are constantly subject to being modified by unknown forces that appear spontaneously in day-to-day life. Psychiatry is somewhere in the middle, as some of it is based upon knowledge of Biology and some of it is based upon behaviors. Psychology is less so because more of it depends upon behavior than with biology. The study of Economics does have some known constants, has some empirical data upon which some theories can be based. It is similar to Psychiatry in that it uses a great deal of mathematics with some known constants to derive some verifiable conclusions. But then, of course, what do I know. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I did enjoy Jane's comment: "Sociology I think is interesting, but 99% of what I've read in the field relies on either qualitative observations or surveys, which I don't regard as rigorous data. People lie, they have poor memories, or they don't care, and their responses are far too variable." I agree with such, as surveys are so full of wholes they have no basis or foundation to support any scientific conclusion. Although I have a BA in Poli-Sci, I do not remember it being really scientific, and I did not get a BS but got a BA. Science is based upon quantitative data. While there are trends in social situations that both Poli-Sci and Sociologists can look at, such are only trends, not constants which can be used as foundations for scientific study. Physics, Chemistry, Biology, Mathematics and Geology are sciences. Theology, Political Science, Philosophy and Sociology are not Science, but can properly be labeled as behavioral sciences, as there is some evidence upon which theories can be based, but as such behaviors are constantly subject to being modified by unknown forces that appear spontaneously in day-to-day life. Psychiatry is somewhere in the middle, as some of it is based upon knowledge of Biology and some of it is based upon behaviors. Psychology is less so because more of it depends upon behavior than with biology. The study of Economics does have some known constants, has some empirical data upon which some theories can be based. It is similar to Psychiatry in that it uses a great deal of mathematics with some known constants to derive some verifiable conclusions. But then, of course, what do I know. ;)</p>
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		<title>By: Signifying Nothing</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/science_vs_humantities/comment-page-1/#comment-518</link>
		<dc:creator>Signifying Nothing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1401#comment-518</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Defending the legacy of Warren Miller&lt;/strong&gt;
Jane Galt has a lengthy post in which she makes the following statement: The humanities simply doesn&#8217;t have this rigor....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Defending the legacy of Warren Miller</strong><br />
Jane Galt has a lengthy post in which she makes the following statement: The humanities simply doesn&#8217;t have this rigor....</p>
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		<title>By: PoliBlog</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/science_vs_humantities/comment-page-1/#comment-519</link>
		<dc:creator>PoliBlog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1401#comment-519</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Media Bias and Social Science&lt;/strong&gt;
James has already done a good job of dealing with the broader issues of Goldberg&#039;s piece in today&#039;s WSJ on the topic of media bias, but the following jumped out at me as bringing back the debate of a month...

---</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Media Bias and Social Science</strong><br />
James has already done a good job of dealing with the broader issues of Goldberg's piece in today's WSJ on the topic of media bias, but the following jumped out at me as bringing back the debate of a month...</p>
<p>---</p>
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		<title>By: Jane Galt</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/science_vs_humantities/comment-page-1/#comment-501</link>
		<dc:creator>Jane Galt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1401#comment-501</guid>
		<description>I expanded in my comments.  Parts of economics are quite scientific, in the sense that one can make valid predictions about things like rent control, interest rates, and minimum wage laws.  Others are not so rigorous, which is why anything ever said about tax policy should be taken with a whole shaker of salt.  I don&#039;t think that any part of political science has reached the point where it makes valid normative predictions about real-world situations that are regular enough to be called scientific.  But I&#039;m open to correction if you can show me, for example, where political science is able to build a model that consistently predicts election outcomes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I expanded in my comments.  Parts of economics are quite scientific, in the sense that one can make valid predictions about things like rent control, interest rates, and minimum wage laws.  Others are not so rigorous, which is why anything ever said about tax policy should be taken with a whole shaker of salt.  I don't think that any part of political science has reached the point where it makes valid normative predictions about real-world situations that are regular enough to be called scientific.  But I'm open to correction if you can show me, for example, where political science is able to build a model that consistently predicts election outcomes.</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/science_vs_humantities/comment-page-1/#comment-502</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1401#comment-502</guid>
		<description>Megan,

Heh.

We can actually predict election outcomes with a pretty high degree of consistency.  Right now, for example, without having done any specific research, I&#039;ll predict that every member of the US House of Representatives that runs for re-election, hasn&#039;t been involved in a major scandal, and has raised more money than his opponent will win.  I can guarantee these results within a .05 confidence interval.  Presidential elections are harder, of course, because we&#039;re dealing with a small &#039;n&#039; problem and wide temporal variance in conditions.

But I suspect my predictions are likely to be as precise as any specific predictions as to the impact of, say, a 1/4% increase in interest rates on the US economy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Megan,</p>
<p>Heh.</p>
<p>We can actually predict election outcomes with a pretty high degree of consistency.  Right now, for example, without having done any specific research, I'll predict that every member of the US House of Representatives that runs for re-election, hasn't been involved in a major scandal, and has raised more money than his opponent will win.  I can guarantee these results within a .05 confidence interval.  Presidential elections are harder, of course, because we're dealing with a small 'n' problem and wide temporal variance in conditions.</p>
<p>But I suspect my predictions are likely to be as precise as any specific predictions as to the impact of, say, a 1/4% increase in interest rates on the US economy.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Lawrence</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/science_vs_humantities/comment-page-1/#comment-503</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Lawrence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1401#comment-503</guid>
		<description>Jane: the specific example you cite has been done.  It didn&#039;t work for the 2000 presidential election (turns out the economy wasn&#039;t that important), but it did in prior elections.

See e.g. &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.mit.edu/people/irons/myjava/ecalc.html&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://fairmodel.econ.yale.edu/&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.  Note that Fair is an economist, but Tufte (was) a political scientist (before he went off the reservation); not sure about the others.

However, I would say that the most important thing in the social sciences is explanation rather than prediction.  Even in physics, the fact that g=9.8 m/s^2 (32 ft/s^2) is less interesting than the explanation of &lt;em&gt;why&lt;/em&gt; g=9.8 m/s^2.  That this allows us to normally duck the controversy associated with Lott et al. is merely a beneficial side-effect. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jane: the specific example you cite has been done.  It didn't work for the 2000 presidential election (turns out the economy wasn't that important), but it did in prior elections.</p>
<p>See e.g. <a href="http://www.mit.edu/people/irons/myjava/ecalc.html">here</a> and <a href="http://fairmodel.econ.yale.edu/">here</a>.  Note that Fair is an economist, but Tufte (was) a political scientist (before he went off the reservation); not sure about the others.</p>
<p>However, I would say that the most important thing in the social sciences is explanation rather than prediction.  Even in physics, the fact that g=9.8 m/s^2 (32 ft/s^2) is less interesting than the explanation of <em>why</em> g=9.8 m/s^2.  That this allows us to normally duck the controversy associated with Lott et al. is merely a beneficial side-effect. :)</p>
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		<title>By: Jane Galt</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/science_vs_humantities/comment-page-1/#comment-504</link>
		<dc:creator>Jane Galt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1401#comment-504</guid>
		<description>Jane by e-mail:

Ummm. . . I can be pretty precise about a larger change in interest rates in most situations.  Political scientists still seem to me to be calling horse races.  I speak as the child of one and the niece of several more, though of course none of them are in elections theory. But my friend in elections theory doesn&#039;t seem to be able to predict elections until they&#039;re almost upon us either, which rather leads to the conclusion that they&#039;re guessing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jane by e-mail:</p>
<p>Ummm. . . I can be pretty precise about a larger change in interest rates in most situations.  Political scientists still seem to me to be calling horse races.  I speak as the child of one and the niece of several more, though of course none of them are in elections theory. But my friend in elections theory doesn't seem to be able to predict elections until they're almost upon us either, which rather leads to the conclusion that they're guessing.</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/science_vs_humantities/comment-page-1/#comment-505</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1401#comment-505</guid>
		<description>Sure.  I don&#039;t do elections, either, although I did some coursework. Polisci doesn&#039;t really aim at prediction but explanation.  I do mainly foreign policy analysis and international security, which really isn&#039;t particularly scientific.

The social sciences, into which I&#039;d lump polisci and econ, aren&#039;t that good at prediction because there are just too many variables.  Economists cop out with &quot;ceteris paribus,&quot; when they know damned well that all other things are never held constant; the world just doesn&#039;t work that way.  How often does the Fed change rates by more than 1/4% at a time? Not that often.  Sure, I can make a pretty good guess what&#039;s going to happen with, say, a 10% rate hike or a $5 an hour increase in the minimum wage--but how useful is that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure.  I don't do elections, either, although I did some coursework. Polisci doesn't really aim at prediction but explanation.  I do mainly foreign policy analysis and international security, which really isn't particularly scientific.</p>
<p>The social sciences, into which I'd lump polisci and econ, aren't that good at prediction because there are just too many variables.  Economists cop out with "ceteris paribus," when they know damned well that all other things are never held constant; the world just doesn't work that way.  How often does the Fed change rates by more than 1/4% at a time? Not that often.  Sure, I can make a pretty good guess what's going to happen with, say, a 10% rate hike or a $5 an hour increase in the minimum wage--but how useful is that?</p>
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		<title>By: PoliBlogger</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/science_vs_humantities/comment-page-1/#comment-506</link>
		<dc:creator>PoliBlogger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1401#comment-506</guid>
		<description>One can predict elections with about the same amount of accuracy that one can predict, say, the stock market, or GDP growth over time.  In other words, close, but rather imperfectly.  Indeed, even complex econometric models are often far from perfect in their capacity to predict.

Plus, there is a common fallacy that crops up here-that the purpose of theory is to predict.  It isn&#039;t--the purpose of theory, whether in physics, biology, economics or political science, is to &lt;i&gt;explain&lt;/i&gt;.  A good theory may well have predictive qualities, but that is because it well explains the object of study.

A simple example of a political science theory that is strong in its predictive power (and its explanatory capacity):

Duverger&#039;s Rule:  That single-member district electoral systems in which winners are declared by plurality, will produce two-party systems.  This is almost universally true, and the theory can account for the deviations.

Duverger&#039;s Hypothesis:  That electoral systems which use proportional representation formulae to allocate seats in a legislature will produce a multi-party systems.  This is also essentially universally true.  Indeed, I cannot think of an exception.

And before anyone jumps on the fact that I qualify the theories, consider how many times in biology, for example, that actual practical outcomes do not fully comport with ideal theory.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One can predict elections with about the same amount of accuracy that one can predict, say, the stock market, or GDP growth over time.  In other words, close, but rather imperfectly.  Indeed, even complex econometric models are often far from perfect in their capacity to predict.</p>
<p>Plus, there is a common fallacy that crops up here-that the purpose of theory is to predict.  It isn't--the purpose of theory, whether in physics, biology, economics or political science, is to <i>explain</i>.  A good theory may well have predictive qualities, but that is because it well explains the object of study.</p>
<p>A simple example of a political science theory that is strong in its predictive power (and its explanatory capacity):</p>
<p>Duverger's Rule:  That single-member district electoral systems in which winners are declared by plurality, will produce two-party systems.  This is almost universally true, and the theory can account for the deviations.</p>
<p>Duverger's Hypothesis:  That electoral systems which use proportional representation formulae to allocate seats in a legislature will produce a multi-party systems.  This is also essentially universally true.  Indeed, I cannot think of an exception.</p>
<p>And before anyone jumps on the fact that I qualify the theories, consider how many times in biology, for example, that actual practical outcomes do not fully comport with ideal theory.</p>
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		<title>By: Jane Galt</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/science_vs_humantities/comment-page-1/#comment-507</link>
		<dc:creator>Jane Galt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1401#comment-507</guid>
		<description>Jane by e-mail:

I&#039;m really not trying to piss all over poli-sci (sociology, yes, but it&#039;s generally held in contempt by most social scientists.)  I think what they do is interesting and valuable, and I think it potentially can be fairly scientific.  I think that economics is farther down that road than poli-sci, largely because monetary behavior is easier to measure, but I&#039;d never argue that it&#039;s all the way there.  That part of the post came out of a conversation with a friend who studied poli-sci undergrad &amp; is considering returning for graduate studies.  I think the tragedy of political science is that, even more than economics, it got hijacked by the social agendas of the fifties and sixties, a dark ages from which it only now seems to be emerging; the Marxists make interesting observers, but they tend to shy away from rigor, since rigor tends to make them look like idiots.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jane by e-mail:</p>
<p>I'm really not trying to piss all over poli-sci (sociology, yes, but it's generally held in contempt by most social scientists.)  I think what they do is interesting and valuable, and I think it potentially can be fairly scientific.  I think that economics is farther down that road than poli-sci, largely because monetary behavior is easier to measure, but I'd never argue that it's all the way there.  That part of the post came out of a conversation with a friend who studied poli-sci undergrad &#038; is considering returning for graduate studies.  I think the tragedy of political science is that, even more than economics, it got hijacked by the social agendas of the fifties and sixties, a dark ages from which it only now seems to be emerging; the Marxists make interesting observers, but they tend to shy away from rigor, since rigor tends to make them look like idiots.</p>
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