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	<title>Comments on: Senate Passes DC Voting Bill</title>
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	<description>Online Journal of Politics and Foreign Affairs</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 17:28:09 -0600</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Signifying Nothing</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/senate_passes_dc_voting_bill/comment-page-1/#comment-986357</link>
		<dc:creator>Signifying Nothing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 14:38:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=32417#comment-986357</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;DC Talk...&lt;/strong&gt;

As you might expect, I am in complete agreement with my occasional co-bloggers James Joyner and Steven Taylor that while in principle the residents of the District of Columbia ought to have the right to vote for representatives (and, for that matter, s...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>DC Talk...</strong></p>
<p>As you might expect, I am in complete agreement with my occasional co-bloggers James Joyner and Steven Taylor that while in principle the residents of the District of Columbia ought to have the right to vote for representatives (and, for that matter, s...</p>
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		<title>By: PD Shaw</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/senate_passes_dc_voting_bill/comment-page-1/#comment-985910</link>
		<dc:creator>PD Shaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 17:13:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=32417#comment-985910</guid>
		<description>On a more practical note, James, what is the tax base of the District of Columbia?

With so much government property and employment which is non-taxable, with so much income/assets that could be relocated across state lines, I wonder if D.C. would be a solvent enterprise or if it assumes wealth transfers from the federal government which would be IMO far less likely in any change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On a more practical note, James, what is the tax base of the District of Columbia?</p>
<p>With so much government property and employment which is non-taxable, with so much income/assets that could be relocated across state lines, I wonder if D.C. would be a solvent enterprise or if it assumes wealth transfers from the federal government which would be IMO far less likely in any change.</p>
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		<title>By: PD Shaw</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/senate_passes_dc_voting_bill/comment-page-1/#comment-985900</link>
		<dc:creator>PD Shaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 16:39:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=32417#comment-985900</guid>
		<description>The arguments against partial retrocession based upon the original understanding of the Framers are twofold:

1.  The federal government needs plenary power and control over its own security; it should not be dependent upon state government.  See Philadelphia during the Constitutional Convention.  See Maryland during the Civil War.

2.  Failing to set aside a district in which federal offices will be built and maintained will set off the jealousies of the various states.  Each will want their fair share of federal offices, potentially reducing the efficiency of federal government.

Maybe circumstances have changed, but I think both of these considerations tend to favor a larger rump left for the Seat of Government.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The arguments against partial retrocession based upon the original understanding of the Framers are twofold:</p>
<p>1.  The federal government needs plenary power and control over its own security; it should not be dependent upon state government.  See Philadelphia during the Constitutional Convention.  See Maryland during the Civil War.</p>
<p>2.  Failing to set aside a district in which federal offices will be built and maintained will set off the jealousies of the various states.  Each will want their fair share of federal offices, potentially reducing the efficiency of federal government.</p>
<p>Maybe circumstances have changed, but I think both of these considerations tend to favor a larger rump left for the Seat of Government.</p>
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		<title>By: Wayne</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/senate_passes_dc_voting_bill/comment-page-1/#comment-985899</link>
		<dc:creator>Wayne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 16:36:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=32417#comment-985899</guid>
		<description>Are we going to start giving our territories electoral votes too?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are we going to start giving our territories electoral votes too?</p>
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		<title>By: just me</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/senate_passes_dc_voting_bill/comment-page-1/#comment-985898</link>
		<dc:creator>just me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 16:35:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=32417#comment-985898</guid>
		<description>Fester I agree that the Utah seat is mostly meaningless-I think more to pacify/garner votes from the GOP side.

However, I do suspect some blue states are going to lose seats after the 2010 census.  It is pretty much known that a lot of blue states are bleeding citizens.  I don&#039;t think this means anything all that exciting for red states if those citizens fled to them though.  NH has pretty much learned that people fleeing Mass into NH don&#039;t change their voting patterns and just end up trying to turn their new state into a blue state.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fester I agree that the Utah seat is mostly meaningless-I think more to pacify/garner votes from the GOP side.</p>
<p>However, I do suspect some blue states are going to lose seats after the 2010 census.  It is pretty much known that a lot of blue states are bleeding citizens.  I don't think this means anything all that exciting for red states if those citizens fled to them though.  NH has pretty much learned that people fleeing Mass into NH don't change their voting patterns and just end up trying to turn their new state into a blue state.</p>
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		<title>By: just me</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/senate_passes_dc_voting_bill/comment-page-1/#comment-985896</link>
		<dc:creator>just me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 16:30:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=32417#comment-985896</guid>
		<description>With regard to retrocession (and all arguments I have seen are what James Describes with the Mall and surrounding buildings staying as an independent district).  I have gotten arguments that retrocession would be impossible because of the size of the city.  

I am not convinced it would be as difficult as some claim-but I don&#039;t live in the area.  Is it impossible?  Is this just an argument against retrocession because others either want representation in the house or statehood?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With regard to retrocession (and all arguments I have seen are what James Describes with the Mall and surrounding buildings staying as an independent district).  I have gotten arguments that retrocession would be impossible because of the size of the city.  </p>
<p>I am not convinced it would be as difficult as some claim-but I don't live in the area.  Is it impossible?  Is this just an argument against retrocession because others either want representation in the house or statehood?</p>
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		<title>By: fester</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/senate_passes_dc_voting_bill/comment-page-1/#comment-985886</link>
		<dc:creator>fester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 16:19:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=32417#comment-985886</guid>
		<description>And regarding Utah, that &#039;bonus&#039; seat would only be in play for the 2010 cycle (UT-AL?) so unless anyone is projecting a repeat of 1994 with a partisan swing of 40 to 50 House Seats, that is an almost irrelevant seat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And regarding Utah, that 'bonus' seat would only be in play for the 2010 cycle (UT-AL?) so unless anyone is projecting a repeat of 1994 with a partisan swing of 40 to 50 House Seats, that is an almost irrelevant seat.</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/senate_passes_dc_voting_bill/comment-page-1/#comment-985881</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 16:10:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=32417#comment-985881</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Then you would still force representatives in the federal government to reside under the laws of member states that are not their own.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Most of them live in Northern Virginia or Maryland as it is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Then you would still force representatives in the federal government to reside under the laws of member states that are not their own.</p></blockquote>
<p>Most of them live in Northern Virginia or Maryland as it is.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/senate_passes_dc_voting_bill/comment-page-1/#comment-985878</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 16:09:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=32417#comment-985878</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Every retrocession plan I&#039;ve seen calls for leaving a non-residential rump consisting of the area around the Mall and including the White House, Capitol Hill, and the Supreme Court.&lt;/blockquote&gt;Then you would still force representatives in the federal government to reside under the laws of member states that are not their own.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Every retrocession plan I've seen calls for leaving a non-residential rump consisting of the area around the Mall and including the White House, Capitol Hill, and the Supreme Court.</p></blockquote>
<p>Then you would still force representatives in the federal government to reside under the laws of member states that are not their own.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/senate_passes_dc_voting_bill/comment-page-1/#comment-985875</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 16:06:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=32417#comment-985875</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The Territory of Columbia was an entity entire unto itself, if I read that correctly&lt;/blockquote&gt;The territory was created on lands that originally belonged to Maryland and Virginia in 1790.  

That quote is just saying that the federal &quot;territory&quot; of Columbia, and the &quot;city&quot; of Washington within it were merged into a single entity in 1871.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The Territory of Columbia was an entity entire unto itself, if I read that correctly</p></blockquote>
<p>The territory was created on lands that originally belonged to Maryland and Virginia in 1790.  </p>
<p>That quote is just saying that the federal "territory" of Columbia, and the "city" of Washington within it were merged into a single entity in 1871.</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/senate_passes_dc_voting_bill/comment-page-1/#comment-985874</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 16:06:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=32417#comment-985874</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The Territory of Columbia was an entity entire unto itself, if I read that correctly.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

It was created from land ceded by Maryland and Virginia for the purpose of creating the Federal District.  Virginia took its half back a few years later.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Partial retro-cession, to shrink the size of the district, wouldn&#039;t create this dilemma, and would be my preference.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Every retrocession plan I&#039;ve seen calls for leaving a non-residential rump consisting of the area around the Mall and including the White House, Capitol Hill, and the Supreme Court.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The Territory of Columbia was an entity entire unto itself, if I read that correctly.</p></blockquote>
<p>It was created from land ceded by Maryland and Virginia for the purpose of creating the Federal District.  Virginia took its half back a few years later.</p>
<blockquote><p>Partial retro-cession, to shrink the size of the district, wouldn't create this dilemma, and would be my preference.</p></blockquote>
<p>Every retrocession plan I've seen calls for leaving a non-residential rump consisting of the area around the Mall and including the White House, Capitol Hill, and the Supreme Court.</p>
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		<title>By: PD Shaw</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/senate_passes_dc_voting_bill/comment-page-1/#comment-985873</link>
		<dc:creator>PD Shaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 16:06:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=32417#comment-985873</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;What&#039;s the argument against retrocession?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

It may be unconstitutional.  Art. I, Sec. 8, Para 17 gives Congress exclusive authority over that which is designated the Seat of Government.

In a number of disputes between Congress and the local home rule government, the SCOTUS has made clear that the Congress can delegate its power, but it always maintains the right to reclaim it.  For example, Congress might delegate to the city council the authority to enact gun laws, but it can always take that back.  Similarly, if Congress authorized retrocession, could the next Congress take it back?

Advocates of statehood or retrocession avoid this issue by reducing the size of the Seat of Government.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>What's the argument against retrocession?</p></blockquote>
<p>It may be unconstitutional.  Art. I, Sec. 8, Para 17 gives Congress exclusive authority over that which is designated the Seat of Government.</p>
<p>In a number of disputes between Congress and the local home rule government, the SCOTUS has made clear that the Congress can delegate its power, but it always maintains the right to reclaim it.  For example, Congress might delegate to the city council the authority to enact gun laws, but it can always take that back.  Similarly, if Congress authorized retrocession, could the next Congress take it back?</p>
<p>Advocates of statehood or retrocession avoid this issue by reducing the size of the Seat of Government.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/senate_passes_dc_voting_bill/comment-page-1/#comment-985867</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 15:54:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=32417#comment-985867</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;What&#039;s the argument against retrocession?&lt;/blockquote&gt;Do you really want to put the seat of the Federal Government under the legal jurisdiction of only one of it&#039;s member states?

Partial retro-cession, to shrink the size of the district, wouldn&#039;t create this dilemma, and would be my preference.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>What's the argument against retrocession?</p></blockquote>
<p>Do you really want to put the seat of the Federal Government under the legal jurisdiction of only one of it's member states?</p>
<p>Partial retro-cession, to shrink the size of the district, wouldn't create this dilemma, and would be my preference.</p>
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		<title>By: sam</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/senate_passes_dc_voting_bill/comment-page-1/#comment-985862</link>
		<dc:creator>sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 15:51:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Re Maryland, I dunno. According to the &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington,_DC&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;wiki page&lt;/a&gt;, DC appears never to have been a part of Maryland, or Virgina, for that matter:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Washington, D.C. (pronounced /ˈwɒʃɪŋtən ˌdiːˈsiː/), formally the District of Columbia and commonly referred to as Washington, the District, or simply D.C., is the capital of the United States, founded on July 16, 1790. The City of Washington was originally a separate municipality within the Territory of Columbia until an act of Congress in 1871 effectively merged the City and the Territory into a single entity called the District of Columbia. It is for this reason that the city, while legally named the District of Columbia, is known as Washington, D.C. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

The Territory of Columbia was an entity entire unto itself, if I read that correctly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re Maryland, I dunno. According to the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington,_DC" rel="nofollow">wiki page</a>, DC appears never to have been a part of Maryland, or Virgina, for that matter:</p>
<blockquote><p>Washington, D.C. (pronounced /ˈwɒʃɪŋtən ˌdiːˈsiː/), formally the District of Columbia and commonly referred to as Washington, the District, or simply D.C., is the capital of the United States, founded on July 16, 1790. The City of Washington was originally a separate municipality within the Territory of Columbia until an act of Congress in 1871 effectively merged the City and the Territory into a single entity called the District of Columbia. It is for this reason that the city, while legally named the District of Columbia, is known as Washington, D.C. </p></blockquote>
<p>The Territory of Columbia was an entity entire unto itself, if I read that correctly.</p>
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		<title>By: The Florida Masochist</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/senate_passes_dc_voting_bill/comment-page-1/#comment-985858</link>
		<dc:creator>The Florida Masochist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 15:44:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=32417#comment-985858</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Why Utah and not some normal conservative state?&lt;/blockquote&gt;After the last census, Utah narrowly lost out on being given another congressional seat. It instead went to North Carolina.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Why Utah and not some normal conservative state?</p></blockquote>
<p>After the last census, Utah narrowly lost out on being given another congressional seat. It instead went to North Carolina.</p>
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