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	<title>Comments on: Signing Statements Raising Hackles on the Hill (Updated)</title>
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		<title>By: Curt</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/signing_statements_raising_hackles_on_the_hill/comment-page-1/#comment-88225</link>
		<dc:creator>Curt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jun 2006 00:41:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>You got it Anderson, and I agree completely that it would be foolhardy to veto a whole bill due to one provision possibly unconstitutional.  

Check out Dellingers memo &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/doj/olc110294.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;he wrote in 1994&lt;/a&gt; to a judge that has even more substance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You got it Anderson, and I agree completely that it would be foolhardy to veto a whole bill due to one provision possibly unconstitutional.  </p>
<p>Check out Dellingers memo <a href="http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/doj/olc110294.html" rel="nofollow">he wrote in 1994</a> to a judge that has even more substance.</p>
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		<title>By: Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/signing_statements_raising_hackles_on_the_hill/comment-page-1/#comment-88222</link>
		<dc:creator>Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jun 2006 23:49:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thanks, Curt.  I wish Dellinger had given an example other than Jefferson&#039;s, as I don&#039;t consider T.J. a model of ethical probity, personal or professional.

Given the nature of modern legislation, however, it&#039;s quite arguable that an entire bill needn&#039;t be vetoed because 1 provision out of 5,000 pages is of questionable constitutionality.  The signing statement then becomes a Big Hint by the President for any interested party to challenge the law.

I&#039;d previously inclined to JJ&#039;s &quot;duty to veto&quot; theory, so thanks much for linking the article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Curt.  I wish Dellinger had given an example other than Jefferson's, as I don't consider T.J. a model of ethical probity, personal or professional.</p>
<p>Given the nature of modern legislation, however, it's quite arguable that an entire bill needn't be vetoed because 1 provision out of 5,000 pages is of questionable constitutionality.  The signing statement then becomes a Big Hint by the President for any interested party to challenge the law.</p>
<p>I'd previously inclined to JJ's "duty to veto" theory, so thanks much for linking the article.</p>
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		<title>By: Curt</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/signing_statements_raising_hackles_on_the_hill/comment-page-1/#comment-88220</link>
		<dc:creator>Curt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jun 2006 23:41:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Geez, I&#039;m sorry Anderson, I linked the wrong paper....doh.

Here is the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/signing.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;link&lt;/a&gt; to the paper written by Dellinger.  A search should bring up that sentence real quick.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Geez, I'm sorry Anderson, I linked the wrong paper....doh.</p>
<p>Here is the <a href="http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/signing.htm" rel="nofollow">link</a> to the paper written by Dellinger.  A search should bring up that sentence real quick.</p>
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		<title>By: Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/signing_statements_raising_hackles_on_the_hill/comment-page-1/#comment-88187</link>
		<dc:creator>Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:18:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/06/signing_statements_raising_hackles_on_the_hill/#comment-88187</guid>
		<description>Thanks for linking the paper, Curt, though I have a hard time respecting the intelligence of anyone who writes &quot;as some have commentated,&quot; on the very first page no less.

But could you please cite the page with the &quot;no duty to veto&quot; quote?  I&#039;ve skimmed text and notes, and Adobe search isn&#039;t finding it either.  Merci ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for linking the paper, Curt, though I have a hard time respecting the intelligence of anyone who writes "as some have commentated," on the very first page no less.</p>
<p>But could you please cite the page with the "no duty to veto" quote?  I've skimmed text and notes, and Adobe search isn't finding it either.  Merci ...</p>
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		<title>By: yetanotherjohn</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/signing_statements_raising_hackles_on_the_hill/comment-page-1/#comment-88171</link>
		<dc:creator>yetanotherjohn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jun 2006 17:51:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I suspect that if McCain, or anyone else of either party, was elected president, was faced with a bill that could impact the ability of the executive branch to carry out some of their constitutionally mandated duties (such as defending the country) and faced with a majority that could overcome a veto, would likely take the same path. 

We don&#039;t know the constitutional impact of the &#039;signing statement&#039;. You could make a case for it and against it. There is supposed to be a certain amount of tension between the branches that forces them to pull against each other.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suspect that if McCain, or anyone else of either party, was elected president, was faced with a bill that could impact the ability of the executive branch to carry out some of their constitutionally mandated duties (such as defending the country) and faced with a majority that could overcome a veto, would likely take the same path. </p>
<p>We don't know the constitutional impact of the 'signing statement'. You could make a case for it and against it. There is supposed to be a certain amount of tension between the branches that forces them to pull against each other.</p>
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		<title>By: Curt</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/signing_statements_raising_hackles_on_the_hill/comment-page-1/#comment-88166</link>
		<dc:creator>Curt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jun 2006 17:22:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/06/signing_statements_raising_hackles_on_the_hill/#comment-88166</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://mpsa.indiana.edu/conf2003papers/1031858822.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Assitant Attorney General&lt;/a&gt; under Clinton:

&lt;blockquote&gt;In light of our constitutional history, we do not believe that the President is under any duty to veto legislation containing a constitutionally infirm provision, although of course it is entirely appropriate for the President to do so.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://mpsa.indiana.edu/conf2003papers/1031858822.pdf" rel="nofollow">Assitant Attorney General</a> under Clinton:</p>
<blockquote><p>In light of our constitutional history, we do not believe that the President is under any duty to veto legislation containing a constitutionally infirm provision, although of course it is entirely appropriate for the President to do so.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Flopping Aces &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Bush And The Signing Statement</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/signing_statements_raising_hackles_on_the_hill/comment-page-1/#comment-88165</link>
		<dc:creator>Flopping Aces &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Bush And The Signing Statement</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jun 2006 17:18:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] Outside The Beltway  Bush Carter Clinton Signing Statement   Filed in: Politics &#124;        No Comments &#187; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Outside The Beltway  Bush Carter Clinton Signing Statement   Filed in: Politics |        No Comments &raquo; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/signing_statements_raising_hackles_on_the_hill/comment-page-1/#comment-88146</link>
		<dc:creator>Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:18:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;em&gt;indeed, if Bush believes that a proposed law is unconstitutional, his obligation to uphold the Constitution would suggest he must veto it, rather than leaving it to the courts to eventually decide.&lt;/em&gt; 

I guess it&#039;s more subtle than that.  What I see the gimmick as being is, &quot;I endorse this law to the extent that it may be interpreted as constitutional, while reserving the right to reject any unconstitutional interpretation of it.&quot;

So, with e.g. the McCain anti-torture bill, Bush would simply interpret it consistent with his lawyers&#039; sweeping notion that Article II provides exceptions whenever Bush deems them necessary.  No duty to veto, because Bush will enforce it, except when it&#039;s actually needed.

(Looking forward to reading Jane Mayer&#039;s bit on Addington in the New Yorker this week ... oh, and on unrelated topics of OTB interest, Greg Sargent &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.prospect.org/horsesmouth/2006/06/post_167.html#002977&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;finds the administration tongue-tied&lt;/a&gt; when he asks why they&#039;re not going ballistic on the Wall Street Journal for its &quot;treason.&quot;  Heh, as they say.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>indeed, if Bush believes that a proposed law is unconstitutional, his obligation to uphold the Constitution would suggest he must veto it, rather than leaving it to the courts to eventually decide.</em> </p>
<p>I guess it's more subtle than that.  What I see the gimmick as being is, "I endorse this law to the extent that it may be interpreted as constitutional, while reserving the right to reject any unconstitutional interpretation of it."</p>
<p>So, with e.g. the McCain anti-torture bill, Bush would simply interpret it consistent with his lawyers' sweeping notion that Article II provides exceptions whenever Bush deems them necessary.  No duty to veto, because Bush will enforce it, except when it's actually needed.</p>
<p>(Looking forward to reading Jane Mayer's bit on Addington in the New Yorker this week ... oh, and on unrelated topics of OTB interest, Greg Sargent <a href="http://www.prospect.org/horsesmouth/2006/06/post_167.html#002977" rel="nofollow">finds the administration tongue-tied</a> when he asks why they're not going ballistic on the Wall Street Journal for its "treason."  Heh, as they say.)</p>
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		<title>By: McGehee</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/signing_statements_raising_hackles_on_the_hill/comment-page-1/#comment-88128</link>
		<dc:creator>McGehee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jun 2006 12:27:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Bush does seem to regard &quot;veto&quot; as a four-letter word...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bush does seem to regard "veto" as a four-letter word...</p>
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		<title>By: Spam filter software guide</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/signing_statements_raising_hackles_on_the_hill/comment-page-1/#comment-130284</link>
		<dc:creator>Spam filter software guide</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-pre%--&gt;Gamasutra - We even offered to send the ESRB more images of the (blue-footed) boobies and (tufted) tits in question, but they did not respond. Perhaps the message may have gotten caught in their spam filter. There are no plans for a sequel.   Signing Statements Raising Hackles on the Hill (Updated) Outside Beltway - NOTE: My spam filter automatically deletes any TrackBacks that do not actually link and refer to this post. Those doing it manually should ensure they have linked the post before sending the TrackBack ping.&lt;!--%kramer-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-pre%-->Gamasutra - We even offered to send the ESRB more images of the (blue-footed) boobies and (tufted) tits in question, but they did not respond. Perhaps the message may have gotten caught in their spam filter. There are no plans for a sequel.   Signing Statements Raising Hackles on the Hill (Updated) Outside Beltway - NOTE: My spam filter automatically deletes any TrackBacks that do not actually link and refer to this post. Those doing it manually should ensure they have linked the post before sending the TrackBack ping.<!--%kramer-post%--></p>
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