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	<title>Comments on: So, Has Rev. Warren Become Muslim?</title>
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	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 00:05:25 -0600</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Bruce</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/so_has_rev_warren_become_muslim/comment-page-1/#comment-688974</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jan 2009 17:33:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>There is some borrowing here, but in which direction is it &lt;em&gt;really&lt;/em&gt;?

Words like &quot;merciful&quot; and &quot;compassionate&quot; are common, indeed &lt;strong&gt;central&lt;/strong&gt; terms for the LORD in the Bible.   Indeed, what is arguably the highpoint of the Old Testament revelation of God&#039;s character -- a passage echoed through the rest of Scripture -- the revelation of the glory of the LORD and his declaring his name to Moses, includes at its heart

    &quot;The LORD, the LORD, 
    the &lt;em&gt;compassionate &lt;/em&gt;and gracious God,
    slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness. . &quot;

(Note that the same word translated &quot;compassionate&quot; above is in other versions rendered as &quot;merciful&quot;.)

From the Christian perspective, God truly IS compassionate, gracious, merciful, in forgiving sins -- and this is at the heart of their believe that God shows his mercy and forgiveness through the cross of Jesus, his Son.   

So Islam borrowed the terminology and a part of the view from the Jewish &amp; Christian Scriptures.  

Now I won&#039;t go into it in detail here, but Christians would argue that the Islamic view of God actually contradicts their use of this terminology, for he turns out to often be simply arbitrary.   So why shouldn&#039;t Christians use these expressions to try to point out that what the (borrowed!) Islamic titles proclaim is actually found in the Christian faith, not in Islam.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is some borrowing here, but in which direction is it <em>really</em>?</p>
<p>Words like "merciful" and "compassionate" are common, indeed <strong>central</strong> terms for the LORD in the Bible.   Indeed, what is arguably the highpoint of the Old Testament revelation of God's character -- a passage echoed through the rest of Scripture -- the revelation of the glory of the LORD and his declaring his name to Moses, includes at its heart</p>
<p>    "The LORD, the LORD,<br />
    the <em>compassionate </em>and gracious God,<br />
    slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness. . "</p>
<p>(Note that the same word translated "compassionate" above is in other versions rendered as "merciful".)</p>
<p>From the Christian perspective, God truly IS compassionate, gracious, merciful, in forgiving sins -- and this is at the heart of their believe that God shows his mercy and forgiveness through the cross of Jesus, his Son.   </p>
<p>So Islam borrowed the terminology and a part of the view from the Jewish &amp; Christian Scriptures.  </p>
<p>Now I won't go into it in detail here, but Christians would argue that the Islamic view of God actually contradicts their use of this terminology, for he turns out to often be simply arbitrary.   So why shouldn't Christians use these expressions to try to point out that what the (borrowed!) Islamic titles proclaim is actually found in the Christian faith, not in Islam.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/so_has_rev_warren_become_muslim/comment-page-1/#comment-665741</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 18:23:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=30283#comment-665741</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;There is no such thing as an atheist.&lt;/blockquote&gt;Holy crap, I don&#039;t exist?

Or maybe you&#039;re wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>There is no such thing as an atheist.</p></blockquote>
<p>Holy crap, I don't exist?</p>
<p>Or maybe you're wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: G.A.Phillips</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/so_has_rev_warren_become_muslim/comment-page-1/#comment-659613</link>
		<dc:creator>G.A.Phillips</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 06:07:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=30283#comment-659613</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;But I&#039;m an atheist&lt;/blockquote&gt; There is no such thing as an  atheist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>But I'm an atheist</p></blockquote>
<p> There is no such thing as an  atheist.</p>
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		<title>By: steve s</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/so_has_rev_warren_become_muslim/comment-page-1/#comment-657263</link>
		<dc:creator>steve s</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 00:53:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>About halfway through Warren&#039;s speech I muted the tv. I thought it was uninspired and boring. But I&#039;m an atheist, so what do you expect. I thought the black preacher&#039;s ending was pretty good. Though I had a hard time understanding him in the beginning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>About halfway through Warren's speech I muted the tv. I thought it was uninspired and boring. But I'm an atheist, so what do you expect. I thought the black preacher's ending was pretty good. Though I had a hard time understanding him in the beginning.</p>
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		<title>By: G.A.Phillips</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/so_has_rev_warren_become_muslim/comment-page-1/#comment-656622</link>
		<dc:creator>G.A.Phillips</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2009 23:19:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=30283#comment-656622</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;My guess is what as attempt to be ecumenical. I was listening at work, and was curious to see if he ended his prayer in &quot;Jesus name&quot; but missed that portion due to a phone call.&lt;/blockquote&gt;No but he said the Lords Prayer, he&#039;s gonna get  sued&lt;/strike&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>My guess is what as attempt to be ecumenical. I was listening at work, and was curious to see if he ended his prayer in "Jesus name" but missed that portion due to a phone call.</p></blockquote>
<p>No but he said the Lords Prayer, he's gonna get  sued.</p>
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		<title>By: PD Shaw</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/so_has_rev_warren_become_muslim/comment-page-1/#comment-656110</link>
		<dc:creator>PD Shaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2009 22:14:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I believe there has been some activity in the evangelical churches since 9/11 to incorporate some Islamic prayer and stories that are consistent with Christianity into worship services.  I don&#039;t know much about Rev. Rick Warren, but I would not be shocked that this was not the first time he has paid some homage to a greater Abrahamic tradition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe there has been some activity in the evangelical churches since 9/11 to incorporate some Islamic prayer and stories that are consistent with Christianity into worship services.  I don't know much about Rev. Rick Warren, but I would not be shocked that this was not the first time he has paid some homage to a greater Abrahamic tradition.</p>
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		<title>By: Crust</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/so_has_rev_warren_become_muslim/comment-page-1/#comment-655892</link>
		<dc:creator>Crust</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2009 21:32:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=30283#comment-655892</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://prospect.org/csnc/blogs/tapped_archive?month=01&amp;year=2009&amp;base_name=the_warren_invocation&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Apparently&lt;/a&gt;, Warren also echoed the Shema, roughly the Jewish analog of the bismillah.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://prospect.org/csnc/blogs/tapped_archive?month=01&amp;year=2009&amp;base_name=the_warren_invocation" rel="nofollow">Apparently</a>, Warren also echoed the Shema, roughly the Jewish analog of the bismillah.</p>
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		<title>By: John Burgess</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/so_has_rev_warren_become_muslim/comment-page-1/#comment-655683</link>
		<dc:creator>John Burgess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2009 21:20:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=30283#comment-655683</guid>
		<description>Crust: You did hear correctly. Warren used the name Isa. In Arabic, that&#039;s &#039;Jesus&#039;, but also &#039;Joshua&#039;, and &#039;Isa&#039;, of course, as well as several other Semitic names.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Crust: You did hear correctly. Warren used the name Isa. In Arabic, that's 'Jesus', but also 'Joshua', and 'Isa', of course, as well as several other Semitic names.</p>
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		<title>By: just me</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/so_has_rev_warren_become_muslim/comment-page-1/#comment-655682</link>
		<dc:creator>just me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2009 21:16:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>My guess is what as attempt to be ecumenical.  I was listening at work, and was curious to see if he ended his prayer in &quot;Jesus name&quot; but missed that portion due to a phone call.

I think in general most pastors seek to tone down the specifics and be more inclusive in these situations, and I hardly see it as some secret announcement that they believe something else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My guess is what as attempt to be ecumenical.  I was listening at work, and was curious to see if he ended his prayer in "Jesus name" but missed that portion due to a phone call.</p>
<p>I think in general most pastors seek to tone down the specifics and be more inclusive in these situations, and I hardly see it as some secret announcement that they believe something else.</p>
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		<title>By: Crust</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/so_has_rev_warren_become_muslim/comment-page-1/#comment-655680</link>
		<dc:creator>Crust</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2009 21:12:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=30283#comment-655680</guid>
		<description>Also I&#039;m pretty sure I heard Warren use the Muslim (Arabic) name for Jesus, &quot;Issa&quot;, among a list of names for Jesus.  I think he was reaching for a subtle inclusivity, such that most Muslims would catch it, but most Christians would miss it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also I'm pretty sure I heard Warren use the Muslim (Arabic) name for Jesus, "Issa", among a list of names for Jesus.  I think he was reaching for a subtle inclusivity, such that most Muslims would catch it, but most Christians would miss it.</p>
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		<title>By: Jamie</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/so_has_rev_warren_become_muslim/comment-page-1/#comment-655375</link>
		<dc:creator>Jamie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2009 20:51:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>In the Christian tradition, bismillah is an alternative way of referring to the Trinity: god the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the Christian tradition, bismillah is an alternative way of referring to the Trinity: god the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.</p>
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