Comments on: Still More Problems With E-Voting

By: Dave Schuler

Dave Schuler — Mon, 20 Oct 2008 18:35:32 +0000

Are there really that many different kinds of touchscreen machines? All of the ones I've used in the past few years had that little window.

To the best of my knowledge there are only two manufacturers of voting machines: Diebold (they're calling the voting machine division something else now) and Sequoia. There are undoubtedly multiple models within each line.

By: Tanya

Tanya — Mon, 20 Oct 2008 16:30:47 +0000

Our machines have a little window where you can see your paper printout as you vote (I voted on Saturday). I changed my vote on one proposition, for example, and I saw the multiple lines "vote no," "vote no cancelled," "vote yes," as they went past. Are there really that many different kinds of touchscreen machines? All of the ones I've used in the past few years had that little window.

By: John Burgess

John Burgess — Mon, 20 Oct 2008 15:07:50 +0000

To avoid the crap that was flying over the past eight years, Florida has gone back to a paper ballot. Elections are being held not only for federal office, but a lot of local offices as well as several amendments to the state constitution. They all fit on the front and back of a single sheet.

I'll be early-voting later today.

By: Undertoad

Undertoad — Mon, 20 Oct 2008 14:41:13 +0000

Pen and paper are easier to game than electronic machines. The people demand a fast accurate count. To do that you need electronic.

It can be done right, and it's up to the local and state officials to demand that it is done right.

By: G.A.Phillips

G.A.Phillips — Mon, 20 Oct 2008 14:27:19 +0000

Ink is cheap too, and finger prints solves the I don't have a I.D. Garbage.

By: Alex Knapp

Alex Knapp — Mon, 20 Oct 2008 12:57:11 +0000

I do think that miscalibration in the case of the West Virginia ballots is more likely than a "hack", but my point is that the things are unreliable.

By: od

od — Mon, 20 Oct 2008 12:50:34 +0000

Or you could just go the pen and paper route, which has almost no problems and is cheaper to boot ... I really don't understand why there are any kind of voting machine. Voting machines which don't give you a slip of paper should be illegal.

By: Dave Schuler

Dave Schuler — Mon, 20 Oct 2008 12:29:08 +0000

Several points. First, the rush to fully electronic voting machines was a panic move after the 2000 elections. It was instigated and abetted by the Congress. The states are unlikely to have begun the en masse move on their own for budgetary reasons if for no other.

Second, there are certain limited cases in which fully electronic voting machines are a good idea. They are generally speaking more adaptivizable than mechanical or mark sense machines are and that makes them more accessible to people with special needs. That suggests to me that they should remain available but they shouldn't be the way that everybody votes.

Finally, in our election judge training here in Chicago we were all but instructed to discourage the use of the touch screen for all but people mobility or vision issues. In my precinct at the last election 98% of the people preferred using the mark sense approach they've become accustomed to.

By: Undertoad

Undertoad — Mon, 20 Oct 2008 12:21:33 +0000

The WVa machine problem is that certain touch screens are notoriously bad at "losing their place" and have to be recalibrated so that the touch lands in the right location. If a machine visibly "switches votes" during the voting process, you can be certain it is not a hack.

By: DC Loser

DC Loser — Mon, 20 Oct 2008 11:49:37 +0000

James - did you vote in Fairfax County? I voted early a week ago at the FC Government Center, and it was on a paper ballot that feeds into an OCR machine. I asked the poll workers if this iss what they will be using on election day vice the old electronic machines they used in 2004 and 2006. They said they're going back to the OCR machines, I assume so they can keep a paper trail of the marked ballots.

By: just me

just me — Mon, 20 Oct 2008 10:34:09 +0000

You might mention that the problem with e-voting is the calibration often slips, it isn't some concerted plot to steal votes. That was in the article you linked.

That said I am not a fan of any type of voting method that doesn't involve a paper trail or the actual ballots cast.

I voted with pencil and paper in my war for the last 7 years. For the primary we apparently switched over to optical scan, and I had voted on optical scan in all the other states I lived in before this one. I like it-there is a clear mark that an election worker can't change (if they were inclined to fraud) and is easily counted if a visual recount were necessary.

I do think one thing we as a nation need to grasp is that every method of voting is going to have an error rate-in every method of voting in some step of the process the process we use will produce some error. It might be human or it might be machine or some combination, but there is a difference between somebody intentionally skewing the votes in one direction and an unintentional error that is part of the process.

Errors happen-they aren't always because some mean democrat or republican is out to steal your vote.