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	<title>Comments on: Stolen Elections</title>
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		<title>By: Daniel Kerr</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/stolen_elections/comment-page-1/#comment-22290</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Kerr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Aug 2004 07:26:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=7217#comment-22290</guid>
		<description>The issue in Florida is a sign that the time has come for all to understand the process.  When you have political operatives doing the deciding for those cs\asting the votes, you will always have the losers being sore and sour.  The last word on this was the Democratic chairperson admitting the fact that, yes, Bush won the ACTUAL count in Florida.  What seems strange is two things - One - How come those aged persons in Florida can manage 10 bingo cards at once but can&#039;t manage a voting machine that they should have been familiar with for over 3 decades. Two - how come the supposed voting irregularities were not reported in other key states that were lost by Bush but were Republican strong holds.  Finally, the judges are the one &quot;Selected - Not elected&quot; It is time for you Bush bashers to grow a life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The issue in Florida is a sign that the time has come for all to understand the process.  When you have political operatives doing the deciding for those cs\asting the votes, you will always have the losers being sore and sour.  The last word on this was the Democratic chairperson admitting the fact that, yes, Bush won the ACTUAL count in Florida.  What seems strange is two things - One - How come those aged persons in Florida can manage 10 bingo cards at once but can't manage a voting machine that they should have been familiar with for over 3 decades. Two - how come the supposed voting irregularities were not reported in other key states that were lost by Bush but were Republican strong holds.  Finally, the judges are the one "Selected - Not elected" It is time for you Bush bashers to grow a life.</p>
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		<title>By: Attila Girl</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/stolen_elections/comment-page-1/#comment-22278</link>
		<dc:creator>Attila Girl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Aug 2004 02:04:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=7217#comment-22278</guid>
		<description>I see everyone&#039;s forgotten the process by which the Gore people wanted to &quot;count&quot; votes. They were looking for &quot;pregnant&quot; chads, and &quot;dimpled&quot; chads, and &quot;hanging&quot; chads, and basically any other type of chads they could use to manufacture votes for Gore.

(Yes--I know the plural of chad is chad. But it sounds funny. I&#039;m therefore being colloquial, here.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see everyone's forgotten the process by which the Gore people wanted to "count" votes. They were looking for "pregnant" chads, and "dimpled" chads, and "hanging" chads, and basically any other type of chads they could use to manufacture votes for Gore.</p>
<p>(Yes--I know the plural of chad is chad. But it sounds funny. I'm therefore being colloquial, here.)</p>
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		<title>By: Petrified Truth</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/stolen_elections/comment-page-1/#comment-22272</link>
		<dc:creator>Petrified Truth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Aug 2004 01:25:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=7217#comment-22272</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Lowering the bar&lt;/strong&gt;
James Joyner at Outside the Beltway notes a disturbing article by New York Times columnist Paul Krugman. Everyone knows it, but not many politicians or mainstream journalists are willing to talk about it, for fear of sounding conspiracy-minded: there i...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Lowering the bar</strong><br />
James Joyner at Outside the Beltway notes a disturbing article by New York Times columnist Paul Krugman. Everyone knows it, but not many politicians or mainstream journalists are willing to talk about it, for fear of sounding conspiracy-minded: there i...</p>
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		<title>By: charles austin</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/stolen_elections/comment-page-1/#comment-22262</link>
		<dc:creator>charles austin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Aug 2004 22:38:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=7217#comment-22262</guid>
		<description>And no, the dogs in St. Louis don&#039;t vote for Bush.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And no, the dogs in St. Louis don't vote for Bush.</p>
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		<title>By: charles austin</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/stolen_elections/comment-page-1/#comment-22261</link>
		<dc:creator>charles austin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Aug 2004 22:37:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=7217#comment-22261</guid>
		<description>dc, your utopian rhetoric is childish.  If I were you I&#039;d refuse to vote again until there are never any more problems with dogs voting in St. Louis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dc, your utopian rhetoric is childish.  If I were you I'd refuse to vote again until there are never any more problems with dogs voting in St. Louis.</p>
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		<title>By: dc</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/stolen_elections/comment-page-1/#comment-22260</link>
		<dc:creator>dc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Aug 2004 22:33:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=7217#comment-22260</guid>
		<description>hey jim, 

We don&#039;t have the media, left leaning or right wing, count our ballots here in America to determine our elections. We have county workers do it in each state. You can malign, ridicule, scapegoat and verbally abuse the process all you want but, that is your right. But don&#039;t stop the ballots from being counted like the conservatives on the US Supreme Court did. It creates illegitmacy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hey jim, </p>
<p>We don't have the media, left leaning or right wing, count our ballots here in America to determine our elections. We have county workers do it in each state. You can malign, ridicule, scapegoat and verbally abuse the process all you want but, that is your right. But don't stop the ballots from being counted like the conservatives on the US Supreme Court did. It creates illegitmacy.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/stolen_elections/comment-page-1/#comment-22251</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Aug 2004 20:28:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=7217#comment-22251</guid>
		<description>dc,

Apparently you people in Amerika don&#039;t watch the news.
The rest of us, in America, saw the results of the complete state-wide count performed by the media (unbiased? more likely left-leaning) itself.

Results: BUSH WON!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dc,</p>
<p>Apparently you people in Amerika don't watch the news.<br />
The rest of us, in America, saw the results of the complete state-wide count performed by the media (unbiased? more likely left-leaning) itself.</p>
<p>Results: BUSH WON!</p>
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		<title>By: Shelby</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/stolen_elections/comment-page-1/#comment-22249</link>
		<dc:creator>Shelby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Aug 2004 20:21:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=7217#comment-22249</guid>
		<description>dc,

Speaking as someone &quot;here in America&quot; the US Supreme Court did NOT &quot;stop [a] count [of] every vote in a close election&quot;.  It stopped a *partial* recount in which many counties were using *different* standards.  The Court was on solid legal ground; the Florida Supreme Court was not.  (And I am a lawyer, though not a Floridian or an election-law specialist.)

Yes, there was much silliness throughout, from both Republicans and Democrats, and from many but not all of the courts involved.  Yes, there are reasonable grounds for disagreeing with the US Supreme Court&#039;s ultimate decision.  But they were given very little time to clean up a mess created by Florida&#039;s high court and Florida&#039;s mediocre laws on this issue.

And speaking of silliness, Paul Krugman&#039;s call for pre-emptive paranoia and greater reliance on iffy exit-polls (inherently less accurate than an actual &quot;count of every vote&quot;) takes the prize.  It would multiply the problems of 2000 manifold.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dc,</p>
<p>Speaking as someone "here in America" the US Supreme Court did NOT "stop [a] count [of] every vote in a close election".  It stopped a *partial* recount in which many counties were using *different* standards.  The Court was on solid legal ground; the Florida Supreme Court was not.  (And I am a lawyer, though not a Floridian or an election-law specialist.)</p>
<p>Yes, there was much silliness throughout, from both Republicans and Democrats, and from many but not all of the courts involved.  Yes, there are reasonable grounds for disagreeing with the US Supreme Court's ultimate decision.  But they were given very little time to clean up a mess created by Florida's high court and Florida's mediocre laws on this issue.</p>
<p>And speaking of silliness, Paul Krugman's call for pre-emptive paranoia and greater reliance on iffy exit-polls (inherently less accurate than an actual "count of every vote") takes the prize.  It would multiply the problems of 2000 manifold.</p>
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		<title>By: dc</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/stolen_elections/comment-page-1/#comment-22244</link>
		<dc:creator>dc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Aug 2004 19:20:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=7217#comment-22244</guid>
		<description>james joyner, 

I&#039;m not sure what nationalty you are but here in America we believe that unless we count every vote in a close election the &#039;winner&#039; is questionable. 

The US Supreme Court first stopped the ballots from being counted then a few days later, at 10pm at night, ruled that Florida could finish it&#039;s recount - by 12 midnight. Any results turned in past their arbitrary deadline of midnight would not be recognized. 

Since it was clear that any win by Gore would be reversed the the Supreme Court it seems senseless to proceed. But with the ballots never completely counted it is clear Bush never legitimately won the office of the presidency. At least that is how it looks to us here in America.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>james joyner, </p>
<p>I'm not sure what nationalty you are but here in America we believe that unless we count every vote in a close election the 'winner' is questionable. </p>
<p>The US Supreme Court first stopped the ballots from being counted then a few days later, at 10pm at night, ruled that Florida could finish it's recount - by 12 midnight. Any results turned in past their arbitrary deadline of midnight would not be recognized. </p>
<p>Since it was clear that any win by Gore would be reversed the the Supreme Court it seems senseless to proceed. But with the ballots never completely counted it is clear Bush never legitimately won the office of the presidency. At least that is how it looks to us here in America.</p>
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		<title>By: charles austin</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/stolen_elections/comment-page-1/#comment-22232</link>
		<dc:creator>charles austin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Aug 2004 17:42:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=7217#comment-22232</guid>
		<description>Maybe Krugman is correct in some of his stated concerns.  I do look forward to his concern for repeated voting irregularities in St. Louis, Chicago, Milwaukee, South Dakota, and New Mexico this fall.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe Krugman is correct in some of his stated concerns.  I do look forward to his concern for repeated voting irregularities in St. Louis, Chicago, Milwaukee, South Dakota, and New Mexico this fall.</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/stolen_elections/comment-page-1/#comment-22210</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Aug 2004 14:50:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=7217#comment-22210</guid>
		<description>dc,

Bush won the initial count.  He won the mandated recount.  Both of them closely.  The third recount, ordered by the Florida Supremes, clearly violated not only the state&#039;s election laws but also federal law. Had the results come out differently on the third count, it would certainly have delegitimated the process--especially if the federal courts later overturned that result.

And, contrary to Democratic mythology, the Supremes didn&#039;t hand Bush the election, they merely stopped the selective recount orchestrated by the Democrats.  Which, ironically, would still have given the election to Bush, as we later learned from the non-binding media recounts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dc,</p>
<p>Bush won the initial count.  He won the mandated recount.  Both of them closely.  The third recount, ordered by the Florida Supremes, clearly violated not only the state's election laws but also federal law. Had the results come out differently on the third count, it would certainly have delegitimated the process--especially if the federal courts later overturned that result.</p>
<p>And, contrary to Democratic mythology, the Supremes didn't hand Bush the election, they merely stopped the selective recount orchestrated by the Democrats.  Which, ironically, would still have given the election to Bush, as we later learned from the non-binding media recounts.</p>
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		<title>By: dc</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/stolen_elections/comment-page-1/#comment-22209</link>
		<dc:creator>dc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Aug 2004 14:46:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=7217#comment-22209</guid>
		<description>I specifically remember the contempt and ridicule republican operatives heaped upon poll workers and election officials trying to do a recount of the Florida paper ballots. James Baker, put in charge of the operation by Bush himself, was on television regularly denouncing, maligning, ridiculing and heaping scorn on county workers trying their best to just do their jobs. 

Then Scalia stops them cold with his order to cease all activity in the state-wide comprehensive recount by saying that counting the ballots would jepordize the legitimacy of the Bush presidency. Well duh? Since the conservates on the USSC were planning to award the election to Bush all along, regardless of the actual vote in Florida, of course Bush would be illegitimate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I specifically remember the contempt and ridicule republican operatives heaped upon poll workers and election officials trying to do a recount of the Florida paper ballots. James Baker, put in charge of the operation by Bush himself, was on television regularly denouncing, maligning, ridiculing and heaping scorn on county workers trying their best to just do their jobs. </p>
<p>Then Scalia stops them cold with his order to cease all activity in the state-wide comprehensive recount by saying that counting the ballots would jepordize the legitimacy of the Bush presidency. Well duh? Since the conservates on the USSC were planning to award the election to Bush all along, regardless of the actual vote in Florida, of course Bush would be illegitimate.</p>
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		<title>By: Tiger</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/stolen_elections/comment-page-1/#comment-22208</link>
		<dc:creator>Tiger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Aug 2004 14:27:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=7217#comment-22208</guid>
		<description>While the need for fair elections is paramount, the history of the votin&#039; process in the US would show that a fair election has never occurred, nationwide, what with there havin&#039; been political machines in place in many areas for years that remove the element of fundamental fairness from some people&#039;s votin&#039; process. There is plenty of finger pointin&#039; to go either way, in most cases, when it comes to votin&#039; irregularities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While the need for fair elections is paramount, the history of the votin' process in the US would show that a fair election has never occurred, nationwide, what with there havin' been political machines in place in many areas for years that remove the element of fundamental fairness from some people's votin' process. There is plenty of finger pointin' to go either way, in most cases, when it comes to votin' irregularities.</p>
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