Do you wish for a return to the good old days when Pinkerton men came in and split the skulls of workers who dared to ask for better wages and conditions with impunity?

And that is different from Union people doing the same, how?

I suspect you're beginning to get the point I was making.

We then, (under threat of a "Non-Performance" law suit) are forced to work anyway.

(Chuckle) Remember, how I've been pointing out the use of government in support of Unions? Case in point.

There is a big misconception about the supposedly "adversarial relationship" that occurs between management and labor. For starters, (in construction, in Missouri)(as a Union Carpenter, I only speak for what I know and can attest to) it ain't there.

In construction, there is much more of a "partnership" between the contractors and labor than an "adversarial relationship" (not total, but it is there). For instance: Drug testing. We are all subject to drug testing, by the Union as well as the companies. This allows the company to get a break on their Workman's Comp rates. Also we have mandatory safety training (8 hrs/yr) which also helps them get a break on WC rates. And WC is a BIG expense.

As to the drug testing... it gripes me. Because even tho I don't smoke dope, or do anything else for that matter, I still got tested 6 times last year(which cost me money)(as a buddy pointed out, I probably got tested so much because they knew I was clean)... And I am far more worried about the crane operator who shows up with a hang over (or still drunk from the previous eve) than I am about the guy who shared a joint 2 wks ago. Drunks kill more people on construction sites per year than the occasional dope smoker ever will. (and drug tests have very limited capabilities in catching the drunks)

We also have "Journeyman Upgrade Training" which teaches us the latest in technology and techniques, and helps us to be even more efficient. (thereby giving the contractor a more efficient work force)

We are encouraged to report the "slackers" to our Bussiness Reps in order to weed them out.
(sometimes uncomfortable, as I can attest to)(charges, counter charges)

Also, the "non-union" vs "Union" is way over played. We work and play together quite often without incident... Tho I have to mention that my own personal preference is Union. If for no other reason than that I am far less likely to be harmed by a Union worker than by a non-union worker. (I have almost died twice, almost lost limbs 3'ce and been injured a time or 2 by non-union workers(or their mistakes), Union? Once...)(I have to say it is merely a matter of the safety training, it is drilled into our heads... They don't get it)(and some of the things I have seen....)

Lastly: The biggest problem is the lack of "regulation" on the non-union side. More than a few are not even classified as "employees", which means no tax liability, no WC, no etc. When you throw into the mix, the "illegal immigrant" part of the occasion it gets even worse (and for the record, yes, I have had to work along side of people who could not speak a word of english)(and yes, this company got busted... Did they get put out of bussiness for breaking the labor laws of the United States of America? HAH!!!)(how much did they cost the GC? Beyond belief, I doubt the law suits have been settled yet)

And Bit,

Anjin, have you ever seen someone trying to cross a picket line?

I have been in this bussiness for almost 30 yrs, and in at least the last 20, I have faced that dilemma only once (and for the record, no I did not cross). Due to what I call "Ronnie's Rules" it is quite easy for a contractor to get a around the "picket line" dilemma. All they have to do is have 2 seperate gates: 1 Union, 1 non-union. The picketers have to picket the non-union gate. We then, (under threat of a "Non-Performance" law suit) are forced to work anyway.

This has the added "benefit" of pitting the Unions against each other. This may very well suit you just fine, but I happen to think it doesn't help the working man who sweats and bleeds (yes, bleeds)(and sometimes dies)(how many co-workers have you had die on a job? Me? 2) at all.

And I have several non-union carpenter friends who agree with me to one extent or another.

Anin, have you ever seen someone trying to cross a picket line?

True that can get ugly. But not necessarily so. I have crossed picket lines when I did not agree with what the union was asking for and received nothing harsher than a dirty look. And I suspect that if folks on a picket line injure someone trying to cross they will end up cuffed in the back of a squad car.

Do you wish for a return to the good old days when Pinkerton men came in and split the skulls of workers who dared to ask for better wages and conditions with impunity?

Unions are quite imperfect, but they do provide some balance in the power equation between average workers and large employers. What we need to do is attempt to address excesses by both sides, not simply render one side completely powerless and hope the bosses will do the right thing.

Gosh bit, you really showed me there. After all, your anti-union rant that has nothing whatsoever to do with the thread is the model of decorum and civility :)

Anin, have you ever seen someone trying to cross a picket line?

Have a Merry Christmas, Happy Haunakah, Pleasant Kwanzaa, and a Glorious Eid!

You forgot Festivus.... Jerk.

Stay strong!

And that’s when it struck me: the blogosphere is full of jerks.

News flash: Life is full of jerks, the blogosphere just sort of distills them into a sort of mass.

I think I'll just leave your comments stand on their own, Anjin. In light of the content of the post, I think they speak volumes.

Gosh bit, you really showed me there. After all, your anti-union rant that has nothing whatsoever to do with the thread is the model of decorum and civility :)

Try to be a good listener and understand the other guy’s point of view.

Only when it's a guy? :p
Posted by dutchmarbel | December 21, 2008 | 09:08 pm | Permalink

Having lived the last 12 years in 3 college towns (Raleigh, Durham, and Chapel Hill) I can tell you that among the young, 'guys' is now gender neutral. Countless are the times I heard a girl say to a group of girls, "What are you guys up to?" etc.