I'm assuming you are addressing your comments towards me.

It is illegal immigration that is nine/tenths of the immigration, so the use of the illegal word is valid.

So what, the economic issues that people raise are really irrelevant in terms of legal, illegal, or even the migration of U.S. citizens. That is all I was pointing out. I wasn't making any statements about the legal/illegal status of immigrants.

The non-manufacturing jobs donâ??t automatically belong to illegals, as you seem to imply.

You are quite clearly mistaken. Nowhere have I indicated that non-manufacturing jobs belong to anybody. Samething for manufacturing jobs as well.

floyd,

You're right it is anecdotal. The problem is that prices are not set by supply alone (e.g. wages, capital, interest, rent, etc.). Prices are set by supply and demand. If prices are going up, it may have nothing to do with labor costs and may be due to other factors.

John,

Very nice comment. Exactly what I'm trying to get at, but with more detail. Just because it is hard to find a job and immigrants move into the area doesn't mean that immigrants are making it harder to find a job. Basically a case of post hoc ergo propter hoc (i.e. after the fact reasoning). My guess is it stems from the human tendency to not want to blame oneself for one's own failures (i.e. not going out and retraining, taking a job with a longer commute, etc.).

Here’s part of the problem: it is impossible to extract 12 million people from the US. The cost is prohibitive and the logistics a nightmare. Further, the extraction of said individuals from the economy would have a substantial effect on a number...

The timber industry got trashed in the 19th C. as the region was deforested.

The fabrics/fibers industry--specialty goods like alpaca and vicuna--literally went South when unionized wages became uncompetitive.

Shoe making went South too.

The light chemical industry lasted only about 15 years before environmental regs killed it off.

Electronics assembly ran for maybe another 15 years before going abroad or to robots.

Even the US military ended up closing the SAC base at Westover.

Nearly every one of my working relatives has been laid off several times because the jobs were no longer there.

Holyoke now alternates with Lowell as the most economically depressed cities in the Commonwealth.

And oddly enough, immigration had nothing to do with any of this unemployment. The city had been multicultural, with Poles and French-Canadians, a large Irish majority, and smaller representation from WASPS and Greeks. These were all the "traditional" population, though clearly they all had to have immigrated at some point.

Now the city has a large Punjabi population. And yes, they're running the corner shops, the dry cleaners, and investing in real estate. But why not? Most young people, seeing no job prospects, leave as soon as possible.

Sure was a good city to be from.

It is illegal immigration that is nine/tenths of the immigration, so the use of the illegal word is valid.

The non-manufacturing jobs don't automatically belong to illegals, as you seem to imply.

It IS an issue where illegal must be considered, because its not right.

BTW, these services do not come to the end consumer at a lower price as a result.

Really floyd? And your data is....?

These people are here illegally, and there should be stiff fines and legal action directed at any person or corporation who is hiring them under table and selling out Americans so that they can save money on salaries.

This is a legal issue and really has nothing to do with the jobs aspect of the discussion.

Why is the anti-immigrants complain about jobs, then without warning seque into a discussion about law breaking?

"Have immigrants had a downward impact on wages? Probably"

You mean illegal immigrants don't you?

That is after all what they are.

It kills me to see my brethren on the right be so glib about this issue.

It's a very simple issue - and calling people "Xenophobes" because they feel that American jobs should be for... well... Americans is just whistling through the graveyard.

Get connected to the news - there are no less than 4 major pieces on this issue all over the MSM and the blogosphere.

It is political suicide for the right to ignore this issue while facing so many other negative issues this fall.

These people are here illegally, and there should be stiff fines and legal action directed at any person or corporation who is hiring them under table and selling out Americans so that they can save money on salaries.

It's really just that simple.