Last week, there was an op-ed piece in the New York Times entitled "The N.S.A.'s Math Problem" written by Jonathan David Farley, who is a science fellow at the Center for International Security and Cooperation at Stanford. Interesting reading, and...

They are, however, under the political authority of people who've repeatedly demonstrated that they can't be trusted. And after the history of the Cold War, it's pretty much proven that such programs will be used for the political purposes of the people running the programs, and certain well-connected politicians.

Probably not, but that�s pretty much a non sequitur. The data mining under discussion here is for intelligence collection, not law enforcement.

Thank you, Boyd. We do seem to keep having to remind people that the NSA isn't providing evidence for trial, but intelligence for WAGING @#$!ING WAR.

And they keep failing to grasp that seemingly rather simple fact.

Data mining, IMHO, is not a legitimate use of technology for crime enforcement...

Probably not, but that's pretty much a non sequitur. The data mining under discussion here is for intelligence collection, not law enforcement. Folks can make all the "slippery slope" arguments they want, but these supposedly aggressive intelligence collection techniques are a far cry from police state tactics. They may be a precursor, and it's wise to be watchful, but it seems to me to be hysterical histrionics to look at what's going on today and say we're turning into a police state.

IMHO, of course.

The three named companies that allegedly provided information to the NSA program have been sued by the ACLU and their derivatives - for hundreds of millions of dollars in damages. Well, those companies have responded....

Perhaps this is why we keep catching the #3 guy in Al Qaeda?

BellSouth Corp. said Monday its "thorough review" found no indication it gave telephone records to t...

Ken: It's not that I'm deferring to their superior knowledge; it's that I understand that, from the outside, I can't fully appreciate the program. Is it possible that Farley's premise (it "probably isn�t worth infringing our civil liberties for � because it�s very unlikely that the type of information one can glean from it will help us win the war on terrorism") is right? Sure. It's just that his analysis is based on an assumption this is happening in a vacuum.

I'm not at all sure we've learned that much from 9/11 and that the information stovepipes won't bite us in the ass again. Bureaucracies don't change that much after one foul up. Or ten.

With the NSA on the other hand there are no consequences for acting stupidly as long as people like you continue to defer to what you think is their 'superior' knowledge.

Beside none of this is needed for security purposes. Our various law enforcement agencies had all the information they needed to stop the attacks on 9/11, they just did not know they had it. With the lessons learned from that mistake I trust they will not be dropping the ball again when such knowledge comes their way a second time.

The Bush domestic spying program does serve as an intimidation to all law abiding citizens however - now that we know Big Brother is listening. If that is your intent then I can see why you would support it.

Like I said, I worked in that area. I know exactly the kind of people who work there and I was one of them. I did not call anyone an idiot.

The various agencies love to throw large amounts of money at experimental technology. That is great, until it crosses the line on respecting the privacy of American citizens.

The most likely use for any large database is to investigate a person AFTER he/she has been identified as a suspect. That should be done using warrants, court oversight, etc.

Data mining, IMHO, is not a legitimate use of technology for crime enforcement, and if the current trends continue, will eventually turn the USA into a police state.

http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/03/data_mining_for.html

See also this:
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/01/post_1.html

Having worked in that area before, I found the article to be persuasive.